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Author Topic: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?  (Read 27881 times)

Viggo

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2013, 01:37:38 PM »
"The 1dx needs twice the pixel count to be considered a flagship"

Lol, that would mean I have to do some SERIOUS compromise in shutter speed because my current choice of speeds would have been at extreme ISO noise, and I would actually have needed a higher speed to freeze the same action with 36 mp as I can with 18. And that would lead to very noisy motion blurred pictures that I now, with 18mp, get very clean and super sharp.

I am trying to understand your point.  Are you saying that you have to shoot a 36mp full frame camera at a higher shutter speed, with the same lens, than if you were shooting an 18mp full frame camera with the same lens and same subject that was moving?  To me, shutter speed is shutter speed and number of pixels has nothing to do with it.  Now it does have something to do with buffer sizes and the number of frames that can be shot in a burst before expending the capacity of the buffer.  Reference the D7100 and raw format where you can't ever get 6 frames per second (their rating) because you run out of buffer space before 1 second.  I don't think they increased their buffer size after making the D7000.  Is this your point?

My Canon flagship is to take the current 1DX, license like Nikon the Sony sensor with Canon tweaks (36mp), evolve into much higher capacity buffers and new series 6 processors (maybe three?) and give birth to the 1DXs.  My guess 6-8 frames a second and continuous use at that frame rate up to the size of the cards using the fastest card technology.  USB 3.0 of course.

That is indeed what I'm saying. My 10mp 1d3 froze almost every movement at 1/1000s and I had to use nearly twice that speed to freeze action with the 16mp 1d4 but preferably (twice), 1/2000s. With the 1dx it went down to around 1/1600s , guess because of bigger pixels. I haven't really read the science behind it, but it seems very logical to me. I guess that's also why the focal length x 1 is the longest speed without IS doesn't really apply to the high mp sensors of today.
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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2013, 01:37:38 PM »

V8Beast

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2013, 02:11:24 PM »
***Is the 1DX really the Flagship Stills Camera?***

For the time being, the 1Dx earns this title by default. There really isn't much mystery to Canon's strategy: How frequently it updates certain models in certain consumer segments is directly proportional to consumer demand. In other words, the Rebel line gets updated every week, the xxD line gets updated every other week, the 5D and 1D lines get updated every month, and the 1Ds line gets updated every five years. If this leads you to believe that the studio/landscape crowd that demands a no-holds-barred low ISO performance, high resolution, and DR is in the vast minority, you'd probably be right :)

It just so happens that within one generation of cameras, entry-level (6D) and mid-tier bodies (5D3) can match and in some metrics exceed the IQ one the prior generation's flagship still body (1Ds3), so Canon can afford to take it's time replacing it's flagship still body. If there's truth to the rumors, Canon is working on a real successor to the 1Ds3, but based on how it's choosing to put it at the bottom of it's priority list, that should give you some indication for the demand and market size for that type of body.   

« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 02:13:31 PM by V8Beast »

nikkito

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2013, 02:50:51 PM »
I work with a 1D X and a 5D 3. Both are Great cameras, but the 1D X is amazing!  :)
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davidson

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2013, 03:45:17 PM »
taken from merriam-webster.com
Definition of FLAGSHIP
1
: the ship that carries the commander of a fleet or subdivision of a fleet and flies the commander's flag
2
: the finest, largest, or most important one of a series, network, or chain <the company's flagship store>

so yes the 1dx is canon's flagship still camera.

even if the 1dx was a point and shoot and all canon's other cameras were home made pinhole cameras, the 1dx would still be the flagship.

you will never find any product in any industry that is the best ever across the board, it is impossible.

bdunbar79

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2013, 03:57:06 PM »
Look at this way if you don't think the 1Dx is the flagship camera.  By the way, is there a rule that says there can only be one absolute flagship camera?  Anyways, the 1DX can do everything, and just as well or better, as both the 1Ds3 and 1D4, but not vice versa.
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WillThompson

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2013, 04:46:12 PM »
the 1DX can do everything, and just as well or better, as both the 1Ds3

This is just not true!

Anyone, or at least most that shoot with both like me will tell you so!
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bdunbar79

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2013, 04:57:21 PM »
the 1DX can do everything, and just as well or better, as both the 1Ds3

This is just not true!

Anyone, or at least most that shoot with both like me will tell you so!

I owned and shot with the 1Ds Mark III myself.  After I bought the 1DX, I sold it, because I couldn't tell any difference in IQ.  Can you?  If so, how?
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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2013, 04:57:21 PM »

distant.star

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2013, 04:59:07 PM »
.
This is truly one of the looniest things I've ever seen posted here.

The OP's premise is the equivalent of asking if the U.S. "space program" should really be called a space program at all.

After all, they've only put people on the moon, put robotic equipment on Mars, put a spacecraft on the borderline of interstellar space -- when are they going to do something you could really call a "space program"?

The Canon 1DX is the greatest 35mm equivalent camera ever produced.

This OP should be thoroughly checked out by a good tree surgeon.
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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2013, 06:37:42 PM »
In a word, yes. The 1Dx. It is not the best of everything but overall it is the best camera and a great example of Canon's technical abilities

9VIII

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2013, 08:42:09 PM »
This post is what I would call "a pointless exercise in futility"...

Easy Grumpy. Smile, it's Easter :)

Clearly, clearly, clearly, and well documented, the 1DX has the best sensor Canon offers.  It doesn't have the highest resolution, but it has the best performing sensor.

I think what is confusing is that a casual observer could not pick out the best Canon on stats alone.  I mean, if I were at the local electronics mega dealer and a 5D3 were sitting there boasting more mega pixels and a lower price and hyping its low lights capability and the only sacrifice was clicks per second ...... why would I spend double that?  I mean I know from reading here and other places the image quality is outstanding on a 1DX.  You can see that by what is posted.  But on paper it seems like the 1DX loses to the 5D3 except for an extra processor to get the FPS up.

I think it makes sense that the 5D3 would produce a wholly superior picture and be entirely more attractive to consumers. The kind of people with a 1DX aren't after a fancy camera, they need a workhorse. It needs to look good too, but someone shooting a thousand pictures a day probably isn't going to be pixel peeping.
It's like the difference between a highway tractor and a "big truck". You can make a one-ton do some crazy things, push some big numbers, but if you expect an engine to pull 40 tons for half a million miles with minimal fuss, you're looking at a whole new league of equipment.

Concerning sensor performance, I have to wonder if it isn't just better processors giving us lower noise and not the sensors.
Obviously great improvements in sensor design have been made, but with the current generation all three cameras were released almost at the same time and with the same processor. Comparing the 5D3 with the 6D, one produces less noise, and also uses smaller files and shoots 1.5FPS slower. The 1DX shoots twice as fast as the 5D3 and has double the processing power, but uses reduced resolution.
Would a 1DX with double the resolution and halved FPS give the same noise on a per pixel basis?
I guess we'll find out eventually.
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bdunbar79

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2013, 09:08:56 PM »
This post is what I would call "a pointless exercise in futility"...

Easy Grumpy. Smile, it's Easter :)

Clearly, clearly, clearly, and well documented, the 1DX has the best sensor Canon offers.  It doesn't have the highest resolution, but it has the best performing sensor.

I think what is confusing is that a casual observer could not pick out the best Canon on stats alone.  I mean, if I were at the local electronics mega dealer and a 5D3 were sitting there boasting more mega pixels and a lower price and hyping its low lights capability and the only sacrifice was clicks per second ...... why would I spend double that?  I mean I know from reading here and other places the image quality is outstanding on a 1DX.  You can see that by what is posted.  But on paper it seems like the 1DX loses to the 5D3 except for an extra processor to get the FPS up.

I think it makes sense that the 5D3 would produce a wholly superior picture and be entirely more attractive to consumers. The kind of people with a 1DX aren't after a fancy camera, they need a workhorse. It needs to look good too, but someone shooting a thousand pictures a day probably isn't going to be pixel peeping.
It's like the difference between a highway tractor and a "big truck". You can make a one-ton do some crazy things, push some big numbers, but if you expect an engine to pull 40 tons for half a million miles with minimal fuss, you're looking at a whole new league of equipment.

Concerning sensor performance, I have to wonder if it isn't just better processors giving us lower noise and not the sensors.
Obviously great improvements in sensor design have been made, but with the current generation all three cameras were released almost at the same time and with the same processor. Comparing the 5D3 with the 6D, one produces less noise, and also uses smaller files and shoots 1.5FPS slower. The 1DX shoots twice as fast as the 5D3 and has double the processing power, but uses reduced resolution.
Would a 1DX with double the resolution and halved FPS give the same noise on a per pixel basis?
I guess we'll find out eventually.

Completely wrong.  I do pixel peep.  Guess what?  The 1DX files are better than the 5D3 files.  Yes, pixel peeping.  Also, the RAW files handle better than the 5D3 RAW files.  1DX has a better sensor, is fancier as you say, and is a workhorse.  Did I mention the 1DX has a better SENSOR?  Not sure what you're on, but can I have some?  That must be some really great stuff.
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9VIII

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2013, 03:03:16 AM »
1DX files are better how? Multiple reviews find the 5D3 superior in IQ, which only makes sense. If you're shooting with a high ISO then the reverse would obviously be true.
I can believe that they made improvements to dynamic range, but only marginally so. Again, if the processor is reducing image noise then at high ISO levels you could be seeing the benefits of extra processing power as much as sensor quality.
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J.R.

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2013, 05:05:32 AM »
The amount of misinformation in this thread is well ... staggering
Light is language!

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2013, 05:05:32 AM »

Kiboko

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2013, 07:03:25 AM »
By Decree, the 7DMkII is GOING to be Canon's Flagship wildlife/sports camera (DISREGARDING the 1DX which is unaffordable to plebs (sorry shouldn't use THAT word) like me, With it's improved frame rate, improved sensor, next-generation processor together with the resulting low-light capability and low noise, plus an integral grip, it will become THE camera for wildlife and sports enthusiasts. So it is written. I am waiting. I am hoping.

bdunbar79

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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2013, 08:56:42 AM »
1DX files are better how? Multiple reviews find the 5D3 superior in IQ, which only makes sense. If you're shooting with a high ISO then the reverse would obviously be true.
I can believe that they made improvements to dynamic range, but only marginally so. Again, if the processor is reducing image noise then at high ISO levels you could be seeing the benefits of extra processing power as much as sensor quality.

You've just got to be kidding me.  5D3 superior in IQ?  Do you own both and work with both RAW files like I do?  Didn't think so.
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Re: Does Canon really have a Flagship Stills Camera?
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2013, 08:56:42 AM »