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Author Topic: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?  (Read 7490 times)

r4e

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Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« on: March 31, 2013, 12:54:11 PM »
Would 1DC sensor overheating be a problem with 1 hour of continuous 4K video? I participate in marine archealogy projects and plan to video scan entire wrecks with the limitation of 2x128 GB media, i.e. 1 hour per dive. The 1DC would be housed in a tight aluminium underwater housing with hardly any air circulation. But, the housing is cooled externally by 4-20 degrees Celsius water.

Currently I do similar work with HD video and this is a very useful technique to explore unknown historical wrecks before further research. I have a 200W/16000 lumen HMI lamp, so exposure and motion blur will not be a problem.

I am asking this question due to the 1DC overclocking of the DIGIC processors and additional heat sink(s).
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Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« on: March 31, 2013, 12:54:11 PM »

marvinhello

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 01:31:00 PM »
Would 1DC sensor overheating be a problem with 1 hour of continuous 4K video? I participate in marine archealogy projects and plan to video scan entire wrecks with the limitation of 2x128 GB media, i.e. 1 hour per dive. The 1DC would be housed in a tight aluminium underwater housing with hardly any air circulation. But, the housing is cooled externally by 4-20 degrees Celsius water.

Currently I do similar work with HD video and this is a very useful technique to explore unknown historical wrecks before further research. I have a 200W/16000 lumen HMI lamp, so exposure and motion blur will not be a problem.

I am asking this question due to the 1DC overclocking of the DIGIC processors and additional heat sink(s).

I don't think it's a problem at all as long as it's operating under recommended temperature range.

1D C was designed to continuously record up to 12 hours.

cinema-dslr

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 01:38:35 PM »
I don't think you'll have a problem with the 1DC.
since you're only dealing with the builtup of internal heat a 1 hour shoot won't overheat the camera.

But it's always wise to test it out first before comiting to this solution.
So rent one and make a test dive.
Love to see the 4k results  :)
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Oupstd

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 02:53:01 PM »
Hi, I do also dive, and I would be interested in knowing what 4k videos can bring you over normal HD video for exploration purpose...

r4e

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 03:31:39 PM »
Thanks for all the answers sofar. Since there is nobody who rents a 1DC in Finland, I would appreciate any first hand or even rumoured experience of long continuous takes at 4K. My guess is that the higher data flow might increase internal processing and heat generation.

Hi, I do also dive, and I would be interested in knowing what 4k videos can bring you over normal HD video for exploration purpose...
The purpose is to map or video scan the wreck and then review the video with the team on surface. a) With 4K video you could swim slightly higher from the wreck and cover almost a 4x area during the same exploratory dive due to the additional resolution and possibility to zoom into the footage during play. Or, b) you could keep the same distance as with HD, but have more detailed footage for the same area. With improved quality, it is easier to notice anything of interest eventhough it might be hidden behind silt or flora. We use many hours reviewing the footage to make sure we are not missing anything. Since dive times and opportunities at the deeper wrecks is quite limited, we have to maximize the data we can collect from every dive.

c) 4K video is also good enough to substitute a digital photograph for our purposes... although the museum personnel still keep requesting b/w film(!) for their archives. In practise, we make hand drawn paper sketches from the footage. A better, moving picture will give a better idea of the shape and curvature of items found.

Discovering even a small item, like a coin, might help to estimate the age of the wreck and perhaps identify it.
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DanThePhotoMan

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 08:36:39 PM »
I haven't done any research on the 1DC, but I would be extremely skeptical that it could record an hour straight of 4k footage. I know it's a completely different body style and the internals are probably much different, but the last time I used a RED Epic on a shoot we had a problem with them overheating after just 6 minutes of continuous shooting at 4k. The same thing with the Scarlet. That's a hell of a lot of information to be putting through the sensor for that amount of time, so If you could possibly pull off one hour of continuous shooting I would certainly be surprised.

r4e

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Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 04:54:49 AM »
I created this topic after having read the 1DX (shared by 1DC) and 1DC Instruction Manuals:

1DX Instruction manual page 221: Live View Shootings Cautions:           
"White and Red Internal Temperature Warning          
- If the camera's internal temperature increases due to prolonged Live View shooting or a high ambient temperature, a white [temperature warning] icon will appear. If you continue shooting while this icon is displayed, the image  quality may be degraded...         
- If the camera's internal temperature further increases while the white [temperature warning] icon is displayed, a red [temperature warning] icon will strat blinking. This blinking icon is a warning that the Live View shooting will soon end automatically...If this happens, you will not be able to shoot again until the camera's internal temperature decreases. Turn off the camera and let the camera rest a while...         
- If the camera's internal temperature is high, the image quality of high ISO speed images or long exposures may be degraded even before the white [temperature warning] icon is displayed."

1DX Instruction manual page 239: "An increase of the camera's internal temperature may cause movie shooting to stop before the maximum time shown on the preceding page." For the 1DX this limit is 29 minutes 59 sec. This means that internal temperature might be a problem before 30 minutes.

1DX Instruction manual page 247: "Movie Shooting Cautions:           
White and Red Internal Temperature Warning Icons"         
- similar warnings as earlier

1DC Instruction manual page 55: "Movie Shooting Cautions:           
White and Red Internal Temperature Warning Icons"         
- similar warnings as earlier
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Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 04:54:49 AM »

r4e

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 05:01:29 AM »
I don't think it's a problem at all as long as it's operating under recommended temperature range.

1D C was designed to continuously record up to 12 hours.
Total Recording Time on CF media does not mean continuous recording time.
Recording time of a single movie clip does indicate possible continuous recording time - but, it might be theoretical as well.

1DC Instruction manual page 37: "The maximum shooting time of one movie clip is 12 hours."

Initially this sounds encouraging. However, you might have to compare this figure to media recording total times. Consequently, I think this would apply to 640 (VGA) movie resolution only.
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r4e

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 05:08:20 AM »
I haven't done any research on the 1DC, but I would be extremely skeptical that it could record an hour straight of 4k footage. I know it's a completely different body style and the internals are probably much different, but the last time I used a RED Epic on a shoot we had a problem with them overheating after just 6 minutes of continuous shooting at 4k. The same thing with the Scarlet. That's a hell of a lot of information to be putting through the sensor for that amount of time, so If you could possibly pull off one hour of continuous shooting I would certainly be surprised.
Thanks Dan. For comparison this is very interesting. The RED cameras have much better cooling arrangements than the DSLR Canons. On the other hand, the underlying technology/circuit density might be a bit older and the RED focus definitely has been even higher data rates with raw data --> higher power consumption.
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r4e

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Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 05:25:44 AM »
Going further in my investigation, I am trying to discover the amount of heat generated:

1DX Instruction manual page 400: With a fully-charged Battery Pack LP-E4N, movie shooting time approx. 2 hr. 10 min. at 23 degrees Celsius. Notice that this does not say anything about continuous time.         
Battery Pack LP-E4N rated voltage 11.1 V DC, Battery capacity 2450 mAh --> 27,2 Wh --> 1DX power dissipation during movie shooting: about 12,6W on average.

1DC Instruction manual pages 28 and 84: "With a fully-charged Battery Pack LP-E4N, the total movie shooting time (with 4K shooting) will be as follows: approx. 1 hr. 25 min. at room temperature (23 degrees Celsius)". Notice that this does not say anything about continuous time. This also implies that 1DC power dissipation during movie shooting would be about 19,2W on average. No wonder if a better heat sink is required on the 1DC.

The 1DC camera is weather proof and has no cooling vents like some of the C cameras have. Imagine a small plastic covered magnesium alloy box with a hot 20W light bulb in it.

How long will it take before the internal temperature rises enough to shut down the camera?
Any experiences? Any rumours? Or any official wisdom?
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eyeland

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 08:28:09 AM »
Would have been a clever move to connect the internal heatsink to a metal baseplate or at least the tripod thread so one could device external cooling solutions for mounting?
Anyways, interesting stuff, would love to hear of real life experiences
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charlesqian

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, 05:58:56 PM »
Would 1DC sensor overheating be a problem with 1 hour of continuous 4K video? I participate in marine archealogy projects and plan to video scan entire wrecks with the limitation of 2x128 GB media, i.e. 1 hour per dive. The 1DC would be housed in a tight aluminium underwater housing with hardly any air circulation. But, the housing is cooled externally by 4-20 degrees Celsius water.

Currently I do similar work with HD video and this is a very useful technique to explore unknown historical wrecks before further research. I have a 200W/16000 lumen HMI lamp, so exposure and motion blur will not be a problem.

I am asking this question due to the 1DC overclocking of the DIGIC processors and additional heat sink(s).

Based on my experience with 1DC at 4K mode, it will heat up around 30 minutes but I finished filming the 128GB CF card, which is a little over 30 minutes of clips despite the white warning icon.  But most of the tme, people don't shoot that long before they stop the camera.

r4e

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 12:58:13 AM »
Based on my experience with 1DC at 4K mode, it will heat up around 30 minutes but I finished filming the 128GB CF card, which is a little over 30 minutes of clips despite the white warning icon. 
Thanks charlesqian, that was very useful information. Do you shoot indoors (with air-conditioning) or outdoors? Ambient temperature?
Canon 1DIV, 5DIII, Sony MC50E
50/1.2L, 85/1.2L II, TS-E 24/3.5L II, 8-15/4L, 16-35/2.8L II, 24-70/2.8L, Sigma 12-24 f4,5-5,6
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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 12:58:13 AM »

Halfrack

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2013, 03:01:37 AM »
Given what you're shooting and the environment you're shooting in, I might consider the new Blackmagic 4k option as well.  July isn't that soon, but you get LANC for camera control.

How far down are you diving?
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r4e

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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 03:24:58 AM »
Given what you're shooting and the environment you're shooting in, I might consider the new Blackmagic 4k option as well.  July isn't that soon, but you get LANC for camera control.

How far down are you diving?
The big question is the delivery time for 1) BM 4k and 2) a compatible underwater housing with suitable depth rating. I need minimum 60m/200 ft depth rating, but preferably 100m/330 ft. The same applies to the external monitor and possible external recorder as well.

The Canon 1DC total price with u/w housing etc will be around 20k as compared to the possible BM option with a total price of maybe half, if and when available. The Canon is available now (delivery time 1-2 weeks for everything) and the video picture quality seems good enough:
1DC Demo Reel - Macro on Vimeo
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Re: Any risk of 1DC overheating on a 1 hour 4K video?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 03:24:58 AM »