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Author Topic: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]  (Read 95292 times)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: April 11, 2013, 03:02:24 PM »
oh, and news flash ---that big old list of lens performance - the real unfortunate reality is that most of these decisions that we dissect and mull over --- unless your working for a magazine, or shooting for billboards - who is seeing our images?  Our clients, who are generally, normal people. 

I was sitting here with my fiancee, showing her the difference between my 5d3 files 6d files (I rented a 6d), and she could tell no difference (and she has to sit through a lot of showings of my stuff because she's my fiancee). 

Same goes with lenses.  the standard person isn't going to see half the things we see with our images.   Even when you get to fast primes - yeah, they will love the waythe background blurs, but that little difference between the bokeh from a non L prime to an L prime, will they notice that?  Will they say, wow, the bokeh is so creamy and smooth?  No, what will sell the shot is the composition and the feel of the image - and for the client ---- how you interact with the client trumps the IQ.  If you make them laugh, make them feel comfortable, make them laugh - most people don't really like being in front of the lens so if you can get them comfortable that trumps IQ every day of the week. 
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: April 11, 2013, 03:02:24 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #136 on: April 11, 2013, 03:09:00 PM »
... if you can get them comfortable that trumps IQ every day of the week.

Wait just a minute.  You seem to be suggesting that the photographer is an important component of making a good picture.  I hope I'm misinterpreting your statements, because frankly, they're complete heresy around here.  Fall to your knees and worship the Almighty DR of the Exmor Sensor.  That, and only that, will be Salvation for your images.  If you can't cleanly lift 5 stops of shadows, you're a poor excuse for a photographer not to mention a failure as a human being.

 ::)
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Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #137 on: April 11, 2013, 03:11:48 PM »
... if you can get them comfortable that trumps IQ every day of the week.

Wait just a minute.  You seem to be suggesting that the photographer is an important component of making a good picture.  I hope I'm misinterpreting your statements, because frankly, they're complete heresy around here.  Fall to your knees and worship the Almighty DR of the Exmor Sensor.  That, and only that, will be Salvation for your images.  If you can't cleanly lift 5 stops of shadows, you're a poor excuse for a photographer not to mention a failure as a human being.

 ::)

LOL!!!  I forgot where I am...lol.  I retract all of that...because now after a shoot, I send my RAWS to DXO and they map out my images on a graph and that's how my clients pick their keepers...lol
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

Don Haines

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #138 on: April 11, 2013, 03:16:54 PM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....
The best camera is the one in your hands

ecka

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #139 on: April 11, 2013, 04:15:26 PM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #140 on: April 11, 2013, 05:01:44 PM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?

nobody qualified skill levels.... Pro's, amateurs, snapshooters, enthusiasts, and even (GASP!!!!) people with cell phones are photographers. nobody mentioned if they knew what they were doing or if they are any good at it.... :)
The best camera is the one in your hands

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: April 11, 2013, 05:25:19 PM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?

nobody qualified skill levels.... Pro's, amateurs, snapshooters, enthusiasts, and even (GASP!!!!) people with cell phones are photographers. nobody mentioned if they knew what they were doing or if they are any good at it.... :)

I would think that's part and parcel to the whole debate.  I wouldn't consider anybody who snaps a shot as a "photographer" - just as I would not consider myself to be a "plumber" because I bought a wrench and replaced a gasket on my sink.   Just as I would not consider myself to be a "carpenter" because I put together a table.  Just as I would not consider myself an "auto technician" because I changed my oil by myself.   
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: April 11, 2013, 05:25:19 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #142 on: April 11, 2013, 05:44:23 PM »
Just as I would not consider myself to be a "carpenter" because I put together a table.   

Damn.  I just put together an IKEA table for the deck.  Guess that means I'll have to cancel that business card order I placed.
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #143 on: April 11, 2013, 05:48:51 PM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?

nobody qualified skill levels.... Pro's, amateurs, snapshooters, enthusiasts, and even (GASP!!!!) people with cell phones are photographers. nobody mentioned if they knew what they were doing or if they are any good at it.... :)

I would think that's part and parcel to the whole debate.  I wouldn't consider anybody who snaps a shot as a "photographer" - just as I would not consider myself to be a "plumber" because I bought a wrench and replaced a gasket on my sink.   Just as I would not consider myself to be a "carpenter" because I put together a table.  Just as I would not consider myself an "auto technician" because I changed my oil by myself.   

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.
The best camera is the one in your hands

ecka

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #144 on: April 11, 2013, 06:48:37 PM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?

nobody qualified skill levels.... Pro's, amateurs, snapshooters, enthusiasts, and even (GASP!!!!) people with cell phones are photographers. nobody mentioned if they knew what they were doing or if they are any good at it.... :)

I would think that's part and parcel to the whole debate.  I wouldn't consider anybody who snaps a shot as a "photographer" - just as I would not consider myself to be a "plumber" because I bought a wrench and replaced a gasket on my sink.   Just as I would not consider myself to be a "carpenter" because I put together a table.  Just as I would not consider myself an "auto technician" because I changed my oil by myself.   

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D
6D + EF28/1.8USM + EF40/2.8STM + EF50/1.8STM + EF100/2USM + Σ150/2.8'APO'Macro + Σ'APO'2x'TC + 430EXII

Don Haines

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #145 on: April 11, 2013, 07:08:38 PM »

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D

One of the problems is that it isn't even clear which is the best photograph..... Hypothetical situation.... a cougar is sighted "down by the stream". Neuro, my Neice, and I head off to get a picture.... Neuro with a 1Dx and a 600F4, me with a 60D and a 70-200, and my neice with an iPod. Neuro finds a nice vantage spot and shoots of a couple hundred perfect pictures..... I work my way downstream and get a couple hundred pictures of the cougar nicely framed in front of a waterfall, but because of the distance my pictures are heavily cropped. My neice got bored and waited in the car. When we get back to town and process the pictures the great debate starts.... which is the better picture? Neuro's are definitly sharper and more pixels on target, but mine are more artisticly framed....and while we argue my neice sells the 30 iPod pictures of bigfoot, that she took while waiting in the car, to a tabloid.

So which is better? Technical, artistic, or commercial sucess?
The best camera is the one in your hands

ecka

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #146 on: April 11, 2013, 07:18:21 PM »

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D

One of the problems is that it isn't even clear which is the best photograph..... Hypothetical situation.... a cougar is sighted "down by the stream". Neuro, my Neice, and I head off to get a picture.... Neuro with a 1Dx and a 600F4, me with a 60D and a 70-200, and my neice with an iPod. Neuro finds a nice vantage spot and shoots of a couple hundred perfect pictures..... I work my way downstream and get a couple hundred pictures of the cougar nicely framed in front of a waterfall, but because of the distance my pictures are heavily cropped. My neice got bored and waited in the car. When we get back to town and process the pictures the great debate starts.... which is the better picture? Neuro's are definitly sharper and more pixels on target, but mine are more artisticly framed....and while we argue my neice sells the 30 iPod pictures of bigfoot, that she took while waiting in the car, to a tabloid.

So which is better? Technical, artistic, or commercial sucess?

That depends on a buyer, I guess.

P.S. So, who was pretending to be a bigfoot, you or Neuro? :)
6D + EF28/1.8USM + EF40/2.8STM + EF50/1.8STM + EF100/2USM + Σ150/2.8'APO'Macro + Σ'APO'2x'TC + 430EXII

David Hull

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: April 11, 2013, 09:02:37 PM »
So David, please dont tell me that there are any differences between the two sensor, and now at 12800iso, we all know the difference at base iso and DR.
If you will  look at the rawfiles I can send them to you

I never said that there was no difference.  Don't need raw files, I have looked at RAW files in the past.

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: April 11, 2013, 09:02:37 PM »

Hobby Shooter

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #148 on: April 11, 2013, 10:36:18 PM »

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D

One of the problems is that it isn't even clear which is the best photograph..... Hypothetical situation.... a cougar is sighted "down by the stream". Neuro, my Neice, and I head off to get a picture.... Neuro with a 1Dx and a 600F4, me with a 60D and a 70-200, and my neice with an iPod. Neuro finds a nice vantage spot and shoots of a couple hundred perfect pictures..... I work my way downstream and get a couple hundred pictures of the cougar nicely framed in front of a waterfall, but because of the distance my pictures are heavily cropped. My neice got bored and waited in the car. When we get back to town and process the pictures the great debate starts.... which is the better picture? Neuro's are definitly sharper and more pixels on target, but mine are more artisticly framed....and while we argue my neice sells the 30 iPod pictures of bigfoot, that she took while waiting in the car, to a tabloid.

So which is better? Technical, artistic, or commercial sucess?

That depends on a buyer, I guess.

P.S. So, who was pretending to be a bigfoot, you or Neuro? :)

And more importantly, why does sasquatches only live in US?

David Hull

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: April 11, 2013, 10:41:45 PM »
So David, please dont tell me that there are any differences between the two sensor, and now at 12800iso, we all know the difference at base iso and DR.
If you will  look at the rawfiles I can send them to you

Just out of curiosity, I set up a similar comparison on the DPR site and there is very little difference between the images.  IMO, none of the three cameras (D800, 5DII and 5DIII) produces a decent image at 12800.  All your test shows is that you can take two perfectly good cameras and make bad images with them and argue about which is worst.  I would rather make two optimal images and compare that -- no rules; you can do whatever you want.  That is, after all, how the equipment is actually used in real life.

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: April 11, 2013, 10:41:45 PM »