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Author Topic: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]  (Read 38632 times)

ecka

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #165 on: April 11, 2013, 06:48:37 PM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?

nobody qualified skill levels.... Pro's, amateurs, snapshooters, enthusiasts, and even (GASP!!!!) people with cell phones are photographers. nobody mentioned if they knew what they were doing or if they are any good at it.... :)

I would think that's part and parcel to the whole debate.  I wouldn't consider anybody who snaps a shot as a "photographer" - just as I would not consider myself to be a "plumber" because I bought a wrench and replaced a gasket on my sink.   Just as I would not consider myself to be a "carpenter" because I put together a table.  Just as I would not consider myself an "auto technician" because I changed my oil by myself.   

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D
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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #165 on: April 11, 2013, 06:48:37 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #166 on: April 11, 2013, 07:08:38 PM »

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D

One of the problems is that it isn't even clear which is the best photograph..... Hypothetical situation.... a cougar is sighted "down by the stream". Neuro, my Neice, and I head off to get a picture.... Neuro with a 1Dx and a 600F4, me with a 60D and a 70-200, and my neice with an iPod. Neuro finds a nice vantage spot and shoots of a couple hundred perfect pictures..... I work my way downstream and get a couple hundred pictures of the cougar nicely framed in front of a waterfall, but because of the distance my pictures are heavily cropped. My neice got bored and waited in the car. When we get back to town and process the pictures the great debate starts.... which is the better picture? Neuro's are definitly sharper and more pixels on target, but mine are more artisticly framed....and while we argue my neice sells the 30 iPod pictures of bigfoot, that she took while waiting in the car, to a tabloid.

So which is better? Technical, artistic, or commercial sucess?
The best camera is the one in your hands

ecka

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #167 on: April 11, 2013, 07:18:21 PM »

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D

One of the problems is that it isn't even clear which is the best photograph..... Hypothetical situation.... a cougar is sighted "down by the stream". Neuro, my Neice, and I head off to get a picture.... Neuro with a 1Dx and a 600F4, me with a 60D and a 70-200, and my neice with an iPod. Neuro finds a nice vantage spot and shoots of a couple hundred perfect pictures..... I work my way downstream and get a couple hundred pictures of the cougar nicely framed in front of a waterfall, but because of the distance my pictures are heavily cropped. My neice got bored and waited in the car. When we get back to town and process the pictures the great debate starts.... which is the better picture? Neuro's are definitly sharper and more pixels on target, but mine are more artisticly framed....and while we argue my neice sells the 30 iPod pictures of bigfoot, that she took while waiting in the car, to a tabloid.

So which is better? Technical, artistic, or commercial sucess?

That depends on a buyer, I guess.

P.S. So, who was pretending to be a bigfoot, you or Neuro? :)
FF + primes !

David Hull

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #168 on: April 11, 2013, 09:02:37 PM »
So David, please dont tell me that there are any differences between the two sensor, and now at 12800iso, we all know the difference at base iso and DR.
If you will  look at the rawfiles I can send them to you

I never said that there was no difference.  Don't need raw files, I have looked at RAW files in the past.

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #169 on: April 11, 2013, 10:36:18 PM »

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D

One of the problems is that it isn't even clear which is the best photograph..... Hypothetical situation.... a cougar is sighted "down by the stream". Neuro, my Neice, and I head off to get a picture.... Neuro with a 1Dx and a 600F4, me with a 60D and a 70-200, and my neice with an iPod. Neuro finds a nice vantage spot and shoots of a couple hundred perfect pictures..... I work my way downstream and get a couple hundred pictures of the cougar nicely framed in front of a waterfall, but because of the distance my pictures are heavily cropped. My neice got bored and waited in the car. When we get back to town and process the pictures the great debate starts.... which is the better picture? Neuro's are definitly sharper and more pixels on target, but mine are more artisticly framed....and while we argue my neice sells the 30 iPod pictures of bigfoot, that she took while waiting in the car, to a tabloid.

So which is better? Technical, artistic, or commercial sucess?

That depends on a buyer, I guess.

P.S. So, who was pretending to be a bigfoot, you or Neuro? :)

And more importantly, why does sasquatches only live in US?

David Hull

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #170 on: April 11, 2013, 10:41:45 PM »
So David, please dont tell me that there are any differences between the two sensor, and now at 12800iso, we all know the difference at base iso and DR.
If you will  look at the rawfiles I can send them to you

Just out of curiosity, I set up a similar comparison on the DPR site and there is very little difference between the images.  IMO, none of the three cameras (D800, 5DII and 5DIII) produces a decent image at 12800.  All your test shows is that you can take two perfectly good cameras and make bad images with them and argue about which is worst.  I would rather make two optimal images and compare that -- no rules; you can do whatever you want.  That is, after all, how the equipment is actually used in real life.

David Hull

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #171 on: April 11, 2013, 10:42:39 PM »

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D

One of the problems is that it isn't even clear which is the best photograph..... Hypothetical situation.... a cougar is sighted "down by the stream". Neuro, my Neice, and I head off to get a picture.... Neuro with a 1Dx and a 600F4, me with a 60D and a 70-200, and my neice with an iPod. Neuro finds a nice vantage spot and shoots of a couple hundred perfect pictures..... I work my way downstream and get a couple hundred pictures of the cougar nicely framed in front of a waterfall, but because of the distance my pictures are heavily cropped. My neice got bored and waited in the car. When we get back to town and process the pictures the great debate starts.... which is the better picture? Neuro's are definitly sharper and more pixels on target, but mine are more artisticly framed....and while we argue my neice sells the 30 iPod pictures of bigfoot, that she took while waiting in the car, to a tabloid.

So which is better? Technical, artistic, or commercial sucess?

That depends on a buyer, I guess.

P.S. So, who was pretending to be a bigfoot, you or Neuro? :)

And more importantly, why does sasquatches only live in US?
Taxes are lower.

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #171 on: April 11, 2013, 10:42:39 PM »

Hobby Shooter

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #172 on: April 11, 2013, 10:58:58 PM »

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

Well, I have no problem with calling a photographer whoever is pretending to be one, but it doesn't make their photographs any better. The problem rises when they start asking money for it, just like that monkey  ;D

One of the problems is that it isn't even clear which is the best photograph..... Hypothetical situation.... a cougar is sighted "down by the stream". Neuro, my Neice, and I head off to get a picture.... Neuro with a 1Dx and a 600F4, me with a 60D and a 70-200, and my neice with an iPod. Neuro finds a nice vantage spot and shoots of a couple hundred perfect pictures..... I work my way downstream and get a couple hundred pictures of the cougar nicely framed in front of a waterfall, but because of the distance my pictures are heavily cropped. My neice got bored and waited in the car. When we get back to town and process the pictures the great debate starts.... which is the better picture? Neuro's are definitly sharper and more pixels on target, but mine are more artisticly framed....and while we argue my neice sells the 30 iPod pictures of bigfoot, that she took while waiting in the car, to a tabloid.

So which is better? Technical, artistic, or commercial sucess?

That depends on a buyer, I guess.

P.S. So, who was pretending to be a bigfoot, you or Neuro? :)

And more importantly, why does sasquatches only live in US?
Taxes are lower.
Three we have it.

Hobby Shooter

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #173 on: April 11, 2013, 11:22:05 PM »
Just as I would not consider myself to be a "carpenter" because I put together a table.   

Damn.  I just put together an IKEA table for the deck.  Guess that means I'll have to cancel that business card order I placed.
By all means, don't! I'm from Sweden and by birthright we can all certify foreigners for their IKEA skills. Consider yourself a certified table assembler... Congratulations  ;)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #174 on: April 12, 2013, 02:20:05 AM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?

nobody qualified skill levels.... Pro's, amateurs, snapshooters, enthusiasts, and even (GASP!!!!) people with cell phones are photographers. nobody mentioned if they knew what they were doing or if they are any good at it.... :)

I would think that's part and parcel to the whole debate.  I wouldn't consider anybody who snaps a shot as a "photographer" - just as I would not consider myself to be a "plumber" because I bought a wrench and replaced a gasket on my sink.   Just as I would not consider myself to be a "carpenter" because I put together a table.  Just as I would not consider myself an "auto technician" because I changed my oil by myself.   

Photographer is a nebulous term. There is no standard definition... there is no certification or levels.... there is no governing body and there is no rating system of specialties. For example, I could be the world's greatest bird photographer and the worst imaginable wedding photographer... I know people so good that they can effortlessly snap off a shot that I would have to take time to prepare for.... and that "snapshooter" would get a better picture than me. I also know "experts" whose photographs are "somewhat less than stellar".

In the absence of standards, like it or not, anyone who uses a camera is a photographer and the question of if they are good or bad comes down to opinion.

To bring this back to the point -

Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?

I'll just say it like this

Yes, all photographers are consumers - but, some consumers just buy cameras - that doesn't necessarily make them photographers.  Yeah yeah yeah its a nebulous term.  But, many trades are learned by apprenticing.  Like plumbing - you learn from a plumber...again, just because I buy a wrench and replace a gasket that doesn't make me a plumber.  Just because you buy a camera and snap a few shots, that doesn't make you a photographer.  That's the point the original person was making.  It's a dividing line between those who are serious and willing to learn and those that buy it cause its fancy - the latter cares about what the specs really mean, the former says that # is bigger than the other so it must be better. 
Owns 5Dmkiii, 16-35mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 580 EXII, 2 430 EX's

ecka

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #175 on: April 12, 2013, 04:46:31 AM »
Right, because the majority of the people buying the cameras are consumers and not photographers.

ummmm....... ALL photographers are consumers, and all consumers who purchase cameras and take at least one picture are photographers.....

NO, those are just snapshooters  ;D
The real photographer is a person who actually knows what he is doing  ;)
I've seen a monkey taking pictures of tourists, was it a photographer too?

I'll just say it like this

Yes, all photographers are consumers - but, some consumers just buy cameras - that doesn't necessarily make them photographers.  Yeah yeah yeah its a nebulous term.  But, many trades are learned by apprenticing.  Like plumbing - you learn from a plumber...again, just because I buy a wrench and replace a gasket that doesn't make me a plumber.  Just because you buy a camera and snap a few shots, that doesn't make you a photographer.  That's the point the original person was making.  It's a dividing line between those who are serious and willing to learn and those that buy it cause its fancy - the latter cares about what the specs really mean, the former says that # is bigger than the other so it must be better.

Exactly. There are cameras for non-photographers with shooting modes like "dog", "cat", "baby", "flower", "tree", "fireworks", etc.  :)
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RocklandDragon

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #176 on: April 12, 2013, 06:14:18 AM »
So...any word on what's happenin' on April 23rd?  Could it be the unveiling of the 70D or 7D Mark II?

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #177 on: April 12, 2013, 07:59:35 AM »
Yes, all photographers are consumers - but, some consumers just buy cameras - that doesn't necessarily make them photographers.  Yeah yeah yeah its a nebulous term.  But, many trades are learned by apprenticing.  Like plumbing - you learn from a plumber...again, just because I buy a wrench and replace a gasket that doesn't make me a plumber.  Just because you buy a camera and snap a few shots, that doesn't make you a photographer.  That's the point the original person was making.  It's a dividing line between those who are serious and willing to learn and those that buy it cause its fancy - the latter cares about what the specs really mean, the former says that # is bigger than the other so it must be better.

Perhaps more succinctly: Just because you can write doesn't make you a writer.

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #177 on: April 12, 2013, 07:59:35 AM »

dilbert

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #178 on: April 12, 2013, 08:09:01 AM »
So David, please dont tell me that there are any differences between the two sensor, and now at 12800iso, we all know the difference at base iso and DR.
If you will  look at the rawfiles I can send them to you

Just out of curiosity, I set up a similar comparison on the DPR site and there is very little difference between the images.  IMO, none of the three cameras (D800, 5DII and 5DIII) produces a decent image at 12800.  All your test shows is that you can take two perfectly good cameras and make bad images with them and argue about which is worst.  I would rather make two optimal images and compare that -- no rules; you can do whatever you want.  That is, after all, how the equipment is actually used in real life.

Exactly.

David Hull

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #179 on: April 12, 2013, 01:02:57 PM »
So David, please dont tell me that there are any differences between the two sensor, and now at 12800iso, we all know the difference at base iso and DR.
If you will  look at the rawfiles I can send them to you

Just out of curiosity, I set up a similar comparison on the DPR site and there is very little difference between the images.  IMO, none of the three cameras (D800, 5DII and 5DIII) produces a decent image at 12800.  All your test shows is that you can take two perfectly good cameras and make bad images with them and argue about which is worst.  I would rather make two optimal images and compare that -- no rules; you can do whatever you want.  That is, after all, how the equipment is actually used in real life.

this is 5dmk3 and d800 at 25000iso
the resolution is higher from the nikon
as I have been writing earlier, Im surprised about the d800 high iso capability
To me, this makes more sense as it is closer to what I am used to seeing in comparisons I have made --  not that I spend a lot of time on such endeavors but I am curious like everyone else.  I look at the two cameras from the images provided by the review sites, from the perspective of the measurement data on DxO, B. Claff, Sensorgen etc. and once you get the gain up so the low ISO read noise s out of the picture (pun intended, I guess), the images are comparable (IMO).  Most of the time (in practice) I would never run it at 12800 anyway and as you dial it down closer to the reality of where I would run it, moves even closer, which was my real point.  I am not surprised that the Nikon is that good, IMO, the measurement data says it should be.

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Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #179 on: April 12, 2013, 01:02:57 PM »