September 01, 2014, 10:28:57 AM

Author Topic: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]  (Read 46019 times)

roguewave

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #180 on: April 14, 2013, 06:22:55 PM »
Can you elaborate, please? I mean, if you were to take a hypothetical 25.6 MP FF sensor and use scissors to trim it by a factor of 1.6 in each dimension, you'd end up with a 10 MP APS-C sensor. Using the same lens, there should be no difference how it resolves before and after trimming, right?

P-Mpix isn't a measure of resolution, although resolution is a contributing factor.  Resolution ≠ sharpness.  A true measure of spatial resolution involves a physical distance.  Usual units are line pairs / mm (LP/mm). For a spatially normalized measure in LP/mm, the higher density sensor will outresolve the lower density sensor. 

However, that's a per-unit basis - and that's not how we look at images.   MTF50, a commonly used measure of sharpness, is reported in line pairs / picture height (LP/PH).  In that case, the greater 'height' of a FF sensor means higher values.  You can see that on photozone.de - when you compare a lens on FF vs. APS-C, the MTF50 values will be higher for the 5DII tests than the 50D tests, despite the higher pixel density of the 50D.  This isn't just a numerical phenomenon - take a look at the TDP comparison of two 18 MP sensors, the 1D X vs. the 7D (same lens, the 200/2L IS at f/4).  The 1D X is producing a noticeably sharper image.

P-Mpix isn't exactly measuring sharpness, either.  It's basically a measure derived from subjective quality factor (SQF), which simply put is an MTF measurement that's adjusted to match human perception (the psychophysical basis is that humans percieve some spatial frequencies better than others, and viewing distance is relevant to perception of sharpness, too). 

That difference you see in TDP's ISO 12233 crops can be measured by SQF, and that's basically what P-Mpix is telling you.  For example, the Canon 300mm f/2.8L IS II that delivers 22 P-Mpix on the 5DIII achieves only 14 P-Mpix on the 7D.  In fact, the 300mm f/4L IS at $1400 delivers better perceived sharpness on the 5DIII than the $7000 supertele lens on the 7D.

Neuroanatomist, thank you for the reply. I believe I understand your explanation, but I think I am not making myself clear trying to communicate my point.

I agree that sensor size matters if we look at the whole image. In your example, 1D X and 7D have exactly the same number of pixels, but different pixel density. By spreading its pixels over 2.56 times larger area, 1D X is less demanding on the lens and resolves more LP for the same PH.

However, I am not trying to compare the final image in terms of FF vs crop sensors. Instead, I look at the per-unit resolution to show that a good lens should not be the limiting factor for a 22 MP FF sensor. Looking at Photozone.de APS-C tests with different lenses, there is often substantial improvement in LP / PH, going from 8 MP (350D) to 15 MP (50D). 350D with 2304 pixels per 14.8 mm height has vertical pixel density of 156 pixels / mm and 50D has 214 px / mm (3168 / 14.8 ). So, these lenses obviously do not limit the system at 156 px / mm, and can benefit from increasing the sensor density up to at least 214.

Now, 5DIII has 3840 vertical pixels per 24 mm, i.e. 160 px / mm - about the same as 350D. Doesn't that prove that another FF sensor with increased pixel density (more MP) would produce better overall resolution (LP / PH) without being limited by the lens? A FF sensor with the same pixel density as 50D would be 38 MP.

This post from Roger at Lensrentals seems to confirm my speculations. In short, it concludes that Nikon D800E with a good lens (Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 ) out-resolves the 5D III with a great lens (Canon 24-70 f/2.8 Mk II) and that the difference is bigger with the same lens (Tamron 24-70). While P-MPix, being a subjective QF, might not reflect the improvement (thank you for clarifying that), I originally wanted to make a point that a FF camera can benefit from more MP beyond 22 MP, even with the current lenses, contrary to your original claim.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison

Of course, I understand that these are lab tests and these results may not be relevant in real shooting conditions. Also, they may be partially attributed to removing the AA filter.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 07:11:06 PM by roguewave »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #180 on: April 14, 2013, 06:22:55 PM »

Chuck Alaimo

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 938
    • View Profile
    • Chuck Alaimo Photography
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #181 on: April 15, 2013, 03:38:49 PM »
Yes, all photographers are consumers - but, some consumers just buy cameras - that doesn't necessarily make them photographers.  Yeah yeah yeah its a nebulous term.  But, many trades are learned by apprenticing.  Like plumbing - you learn from a plumber...again, just because I buy a wrench and replace a gasket that doesn't make me a plumber.  Just because you buy a camera and snap a few shots, that doesn't make you a photographer.  That's the point the original person was making.  It's a dividing line between those who are serious and willing to learn and those that buy it cause its fancy - the latter cares about what the specs really mean, the former says that # is bigger than the other so it must be better.

Perhaps more succinctly: Just because you can write doesn't make you a writer.

+10000 --- TY, was searching for the right way to say this but skipped right over writing...
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

Sporgon

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1817
  • 5% of gear used 95% of the time
    • View Profile
    • www.buildingpanoramics.com
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #182 on: April 15, 2013, 04:03:17 PM »
give Neuros camera to your nice, and make money , simple as that


Is this right ?

Has ankorwatt submitted a post that doesn't compare a 5D mkii to a D800 ?

Or has some of it been deleted ?

Skulker

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 369
  • PP is no vice and as shot is no virtue
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #183 on: April 18, 2013, 06:28:18 PM »
I know one thing that will defiantly be announced on the 23rd.

Ankorwatt will announce he has managed to take two pictures, one will be taken with a 5d3 and will not be very good. Just maybe the other will be taken with a d800, that one will surprise him with how good it is.  ::)

Anyone want to take a bet against this prediction?  ;D
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

J.R.

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1469
  • A Speedlight Junkie!
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #184 on: April 22, 2013, 12:38:17 PM »
I know one thing that will defiantly be announced on the 23rd.

Ankorwatt will announce he has managed to take two pictures, one will be taken with a 5d3 and will not be very good. Just maybe the other will be taken with a d800, that one will surprise him with how good it is.  ::)

Anyone want to take a bet against this prediction?  ;D

Pity I didn't take that bet ... Ankorwatt did just that but one day in advance-

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=13980.msg260519#msg260519
Light is language!

jarv

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #185 on: April 22, 2013, 06:50:45 PM »
So...any word on what's happenin' on April 23rd?  Could it be the unveiling of the 70D or 7D Mark II?

I was wondering the same thing.

Shane1.4

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
    • View Profile
    • Shane Long Photography
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #186 on: April 22, 2013, 08:58:48 PM »
Were there ever any press invites?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 09:10:02 PM by Shane1.4 »
5D Mark III, 6D, 135L, 85 1.8, Sigma 50 1.4 Art, Sigma 35 1.4 Art, 17-40L
www.shanelongphotography.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #186 on: April 22, 2013, 08:58:48 PM »

Apop

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
    • Apophoto
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #187 on: April 23, 2013, 07:01:50 AM »
im curious if anything will be announced today ( 1pm in my country)
Anyone knows what the usual time is for announcements?

Hobby Shooter

  • Guest
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #188 on: April 23, 2013, 07:26:46 AM »
It's around 6.30 on the Indochinese peninsula, the rainy season is coming our way, closer to 40 degrees outside, 104f for you guys in the promised land, no announcements as far as I've seen. Maybe I should be out taking pictures instead as I'm happy with what I got anyway.

hamada

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #189 on: April 23, 2013, 07:31:54 AM »
i guess ist was purley made up... CR -1

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3322
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

hamada

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #191 on: April 23, 2013, 07:39:28 AM »
they would announce a boring 70D with a boring old 18 MP sensor anyway... no 7D MK2.

but we have sigma to the rescue.

a nice lens announced, some rumored to follow...

•a 135mm f/1.8 DG OS lens (“ART” line-up)
•a 24mm f/1.4 DG lens (“ART” line-up)
•an updated 50mm f/1.4



Canon-F1

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #192 on: April 23, 2013, 08:31:48 AM »
so much about what a CR2 rating is worth.  ::)
6D, 5D MK2, 7D, 550D... a lot of Glass.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #192 on: April 23, 2013, 08:31:48 AM »

bigal1000

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #193 on: April 23, 2013, 11:55:39 AM »
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

that1guyy

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #194 on: May 03, 2013, 09:24:36 PM »
The rumors just died.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Announcements on April 23, 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #194 on: May 03, 2013, 09:24:36 PM »