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Author Topic: Hi ISO Critique  (Read 3114 times)

RonQ

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Hi ISO Critique
« on: April 07, 2013, 01:14:32 PM »
Hello Everyone,
Need critique on this image I took at home with ISO 12800.  I just took a screen shot from my PC in lightroom to show everything.  Sharpened to 40 and I reduced noise level luminance to 50 and the image zoomed in does not look so good, however, at normal size on the left looks decent.  What do you guys think? 
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Hi ISO Critique
« on: April 07, 2013, 01:14:32 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 01:33:17 PM »
I'm wondering why you did not add supplemental lighting.  I do use High ISO settings, but only where proper lighting would spoil the mood, or where it is not allowed or not possible.
This might be a good situation to use a TS lens.
 
I cannot see the exposure slider in the image, so I wonder if the shot was underexposed.  You only have about 5 stops of DR at ISO 12800, so you must have perfect exposure.

RonQ

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 03:33:39 PM »
I'm wondering why you did not add supplemental lighting.  I do use High ISO settings, but only where proper lighting would spoil the mood, or where it is not allowed or not possible.
This might be a good situation to use a TS lens.
 
I cannot see the exposure slider in the image, so I wonder if the shot was underexposed.  You only have about 5 stops of DR at ISO 12800, so you must have perfect exposure.
I was merely attempting to test the limit on the 5D3 with high ISO and used natural light.  Take a look at the exposure slider, did not touch it at all. I did adjust highlight, shadows, white & blacks.
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Nathaniel Weir

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 04:09:11 PM »
Solution - buy a tripod. Critique... your shutter speed was 1/200, it could have easily been 1/50 and would have been sharper thanks to a lower ISO.
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RonQ

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 04:30:20 PM »
Solution - buy a tripod. Critique... your shutter speed was 1/200, it could have easily been 1/50 and would have been sharper thanks to a lower ISO.
Thanks Nathaniel...... I agree with you if I'm shooting interior homes for a living.  However, I'm a portrait and wedding photographer and I was testing the limits on shooting indoors with hi ISO on the 5D3.  Shutter 1/200 in my opinion is the minimum for indoor and hand held use during a reception..... Also, in wedding photography, tripods are hardly used...... And, I own a great tripod!!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 04:31:51 PM by RonQ »
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polarhannes

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 06:54:48 PM »
Hi RonQ,

I'm not a pro but I will try to do my best to help you. I understood you just took that picture for testing purposes and that you simply want to know how to improve this particular photo using Lightroom. People already indicated that the exposure is not the best here.

My workflow for this would be:
- set the whitebalance (try to use the door in the background) - noise will look less disturbing in my opinion
- set the sharpening amount to 0 (will do sharpening after noise removal)
- There is color noise in the image. Zoom to 100% and move the color noise slider until it disappears. (dark areas have more color noise)
- Set luminance noise reduction to at least 80 or even 90. Yes you will loose detail. You can't avoid that at ISO12800.
- set sharpening amount  to maximum to begin (will decrease that value later)
- This scene has no fine details, so you can use a much higher masking value in the sharpening tab. Press and hold the ALT key while moving the 'masking' slider up. You will see white lines. The correct masking value will be the one when you can only see the outline of the edges of the door and the wall.
- 'detail' will try to bring out detail in that shot. There is not much detail but straight lines. High detail values increase noise. I'd set it to 1 here. You could also press and hold the ALT key and look at the picture at 100%, too much detail will emphasize the noise.
- My feeling tells me a radius of 1.2 is okay here (again, try to press and hold the ALT key)
- Set the sharpening to about 90 or any value which you think is enough. Pre-sharpening can only be seen properly at 100%.
- Export the image. LR will add output sharpening to the picture. This step is important.

The workflow above will look weird for photos of people. They will look like if they have a skin made of wax. It might work for this image here tough.

Question is what you are planning to do with the pictures. Print them? Publishing on the web? Pixel peep for noise? It also depends on your viewing distance / size of the final picture. The settings would be different for each.

There are also very good 3rd party noise removal tools like Nik Dfine 2, available for download for a 30 day testing period.

Sorry for my clumsy english - reading is not an issue but writing is hard :-)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 06:58:01 PM by polarhannes »
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polarhannes

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 07:10:34 PM »
.. just noticed that the picture you sent already is at a 100% and that we are only seeing a crop here, so my suggestions might not work as expected. They were based on the 100% view I saw.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 07:13:00 PM by polarhannes »
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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 07:10:34 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 07:16:53 PM »
[I'm a portrait and wedding photographer and I was testing the limits on shooting indoors with hi ISO on the 5D3.  Shutter 1/200 in my opinion is the minimum for indoor and hand held use during a reception..... Also, in wedding photography, tripods are hardly used...... And, I own a great tripod!!

RonQ, Wedding images are definitely going to pose different issues than a static super wide angle scene.  In those, people, not a interior will be what you are trying to optimize. 
 
I shoot low level theater events, probably tougher or as togh as bad conditions at a wedding.
 
Here is one at ISO 1600 with my 5D MK III .  The subjects are moving, but not quickly.
 
 

 
 
 
This one (below) was at ISO 25600, a lot more noise.
 

RonQ

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2013, 09:33:42 AM »
[I'm a portrait and wedding photographer and I was testing the limits on shooting indoors with hi ISO on the 5D3.  Shutter 1/200 in my opinion is the minimum for indoor and hand held use during a reception..... Also, in wedding photography, tripods are hardly used...... And, I own a great tripod!!

RonQ, Wedding images are definitely going to pose different issues than a static super wide angle scene.  In those, people, not a interior will be what you are trying to optimize. 
 
I shoot low level theater events, probably tougher or as togh as bad conditions at a wedding.
 
Here is one at ISO 1600 with my 5D MK III .  The subjects are moving, but not quickly.
 
This one (below) was at ISO 25600, a lot more noise.
 
Ahh, you're right.... I will mainly use my 24-70 and 50 prime for low light and not the 16-35.  I see in your photos that we've got similar noise right out of the camera.
Thanks.
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RonQ

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 09:38:09 AM »
Hi RonQ,

I'm not a pro but I will try to do my best to help you. I understood you just took that picture for testing purposes and that you simply want to know how to improve this particular photo using Lightroom. People already indicated that the exposure is not the best here.

My workflow for this would be:
- set the whitebalance (try to use the door in the background) - noise will look less disturbing in my opinion
- set the sharpening amount to 0 (will do sharpening after noise removal)
- There is color noise in the image. Zoom to 100% and move the color noise slider until it disappears. (dark areas have more color noise)
- Set luminance noise reduction to at least 80 or even 90. Yes you will loose detail. You can't avoid that at ISO12800.
- set sharpening amount  to maximum to begin (will decrease that value later)
- This scene has no fine details, so you can use a much higher masking value in the sharpening tab. Press and hold the ALT key while moving the 'masking' slider up. You will see white lines. The correct masking value will be the one when you can only see the outline of the edges of the door and the wall.
- 'detail' will try to bring out detail in that shot. There is not much detail but straight lines. High detail values increase noise. I'd set it to 1 here. You could also press and hold the ALT key and look at the picture at 100%, too much detail will emphasize the noise.
- My feeling tells me a radius of 1.2 is okay here (again, try to press and hold the ALT key)
- Set the sharpening to about 90 or any value which you think is enough. Pre-sharpening can only be seen properly at 100%.
- Export the image. LR will add output sharpening to the picture. This step is important.

The workflow above will look weird for photos of people. They will look like if they have a skin made of wax. It might work for this image here tough.

Question is what you are planning to do with the pictures. Print them? Publishing on the web? Pixel peep for noise? It also depends on your viewing distance / size of the final picture. The settings would be different for each.

There are also very good 3rd party noise removal tools like Nik Dfine 2, available for download for a 30 day testing period.

Sorry for my clumsy english - reading is not an issue but writing is hard :-)
Thanks for the info..... Depending on the client.  Sometimes they want them printed and others just want them on disk.... I'll try to adjust some of these settings in post and see what the result is.  I have to agree with Mt. Spokane, using the 16-35 in low light will give different results than a 24-70 or 50 prime.....
Canon 5D MK3, Canon 5D MK2, Canon T2i, Canon 24-70L f2.8, Canon 16-35L II f2.8, Canon 70-200L f2.8, Canon 50mm 1.4, 600EX-RT, 580EX II

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Re: Hi ISO Critique
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 09:38:09 AM »