August 21, 2014, 10:29:51 AM

Author Topic: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K  (Read 13975 times)

Radiating

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2013, 09:56:55 PM »
The Blackmagic Design cameras are pretty awesome for what they are and how they've burst onto the video market, but for us Windows-based PC owners without a brand new Thunderbolt input device, they're useless. I don't even think that a stand-alone SSD reader exists, so that puts the kibosh on my interest. As if I have the cash-ola to spend anyways!  ::)


Ummm there are 427 "stand-alone SSD readers" available on Newegg alone, and 19,349 available on Amazon (that's ninteen thousand). Here's one I recommend (mid range) for $24.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066

Or one of the fastest ones you can get for $45:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153133


Stand alone SSD readers second only to SD card readers in popularity.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 10:00:38 PM by Radiating »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2013, 09:56:55 PM »

Midphase

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2013, 12:27:14 AM »
I just got back from NAB and I can tell you that the Blackmagic 4K camera was the talk of the show.

What Blackmagic has done is listened to their customers who were greatly concerned with the 2.5K's rolling shutter and 16mm sensor, and addressed those issues quickly and without raising the price substantially. The camera image looks great (particularly when paired up with a nice Zeiss prime), and I do believe Blackmagic when they say they've learned their lesson and are serious about meeting their (late) July deadline. I think the biggest problem that they face is that they simply won't be able to keep up with demand, this puppy will be sold out for quite some time.

I do think this 4K camera will first and foremost damage RED Scarlet sales, followed by Canon C-line sales. I also think it spells doom for sales of the 5D3 or 7D2 to filmmakers. Canon and RED are in serious trouble and they know it.

There are some negatives to the Blackmagic 4K camera, first of all the crappy form factor (inputs on the wrong side, poor controls and lack of assignable buttons). Secondly, the 4K only shoots 4K, which means that if you also want to shoot HD or 2.5K with it, you simply can't (firmware update perhaps?). Oh, and there's that lack-of-swappable-battery issue that still causes puzzlement among the masses.

Having said that, for the price and image quality (not just about resolution, the image indeed looks stunning), I think most of us will be ok with the workarounds and lacks.


Moving onto the Blackmagic Mini. It's a very exciting camera, it lends itself well to a B-camera, and as a primary camera on shots not needing a super-low-light sensor or super-shallow DOF. For instance, establishing exterior shots, or greenscreen work. Rolling shutter on it is just as bad as its older brother, and the Super-16mm sized sensor will limit its usage for ultra-wide angle shots or CU needing very shallow DOF. However, this is a (potentially) quad-copter friendly camera which will also appeal to some. Other negative is needing to either purchase a whole slew of new lenses, or use EF to M4/3 adaptors...not ideal.

Do I wish that both cameras could do 60p or more? Of course, but as much as we tend to fixate on slow motion, how often does it get used on dramatic indie films which until now were mostly using the 5D?

So what can Canon (and RED) do now?

RED could drop the price of its Scarlet to match the BMCC 4K. Sure it would still be more expensive with the add-ons, but RED could argue quite well that the Scarlet can not only shoot 120fps, but is also a more production-ready and field-tested camera.

Canon should think long and hard about allowing its camera line (including the 5D3) to shoot 60fps at 1080p. They might consider updating the video codec to ProRes (could be possible). I sure hope that their uncompressed 422 HDMI out looks substantially better than what the camera currently records internally. Thankfully they can also rely on the multitude of still photographers who don't really give a crap about video.

Unfortunately their C line is...well...screwed. They could drop the price (substantially) which would undoubtedly piss off many recent customers. Even so, I really believe that for all intents and purposes, the C line is as good as dead since it will now live in a dreaded no-man's land between high end productions (ALEXA and Epic) and low end (Blackmagic).


From my very skeptical analysis (FYI, last year's BMCC 2.5k failed to impress), I think in this particular case the hype is well deserved. I think the BMCC 4K and Mini will (assuming they ship reasonably on schedule) have a huge impact on independent filmmaking.

NormanBates

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 489
  • www.similaar.com
    • View Profile
    • www.similaar.com
Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2013, 04:43:09 AM »
What Canon needs to do to be able to compete with BlackMagic:
* bring, at least, 10-bit 422 internal recording with a high bitrate, to DSLRs --> they may need new processors for this
* unlock the dynamic range of the cameras --> they may need new sensors for this
So, they're in a nasty place.
All their fault, though, they new this is what consumers wanted for the last 3 or 4 years, and did nothing about it.

JasonATL

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
    • View Profile
Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2013, 08:07:13 AM »
The Blackmagic Design cameras are pretty awesome for what they are and how they've burst onto the video market, but for us Windows-based PC owners without a brand new Thunderbolt input device, they're useless. I don't even think that a stand-alone SSD reader exists, so that puts the kibosh on my interest. As if I have the cash-ola to spend anyways!  ::)

I'm a Windows-only user at the moment and have no problems working with my Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera (BMCC). You can read ProRes in Windows. BMD's DaVinci Resolve is on Windows. My BMCC uses exFat-formatted SSD drives. Thunderbolt is only used for monitoring and scopes while recording and is not necessary (or even used) for ingesting video from the camera.

All the praise of the BMCC and the anticipated new cameras that I'm reading here is well-deserved. My wife has a 5D Mark III for stills shooting. I borrowed it for video shooting quite a bit and was about ready to buy one until I started fancying a BMCC. I'm very glad I didn't buy another 5D Mark III. The BMCC is so far beyond a DSLR that I don't know if I'll ever pick up a DSLR for video again, especially after my BM Pocket Camera arrives.

As someone said earlier, ask a stills photog if they would ever give up raw. Once you have it in video, you won't want to either.

And, the 4:2:2 modes on the BMCC blow away my Canons in resolution and color.

I've ordered both new cameras, but will probably cancel the 4k. I really don't have a need for it. The Pocket cam will solve one issue that I don't like about the BMCC vs. a DSLR: the BMCC's form factor is not "handheld-friendly". Like Cayenne, I plan to buy one MFT lens (the Panny 12-35 with IS) and use the cam as a "walking around" cam. If an active-MFT to active-EF adapter comes out, all the better so I can use all my EF-mount glass.

A correction to something in this thread. The BMCC does suffer from moire. However, because it resolves so much detail, it is actually possible to reduce the effects of the moire and clean it up nicely, mostly through chroma blur. In doing so, the moire isn't bothersome to me on this camera, when it was something I just hated about some DSLRs.

There is a reason that BMD has stolen the show at NAB two years in a row. They're delivering what people want.

The next traditional companies that need to start worrying are the Adobe's and Apple's: BMD's DaVinci Resolve might end up replacing their post tools. Resolve is amazing.

cayenne

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1206
    • View Profile
Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2013, 12:20:53 PM »
The Blackmagic Design cameras are pretty awesome for what they are and how they've burst onto the video market, but for us Windows-based PC owners without a brand new Thunderbolt input device, they're useless. I don't even think that a stand-alone SSD reader exists, so that puts the kibosh on my interest. As if I have the cash-ola to spend anyways!  ::)

I'm a Windows-only user at the moment and have no problems working with my Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera (BMCC). You can read ProRes in Windows. BMD's DaVinci Resolve is on Windows. My BMCC uses exFat-formatted SSD drives. Thunderbolt is only used for monitoring and scopes while recording and is not necessary (or even used) for ingesting video from the camera.

All the praise of the BMCC and the anticipated new cameras that I'm reading here is well-deserved. My wife has a 5D Mark III for stills shooting. I borrowed it for video shooting quite a bit and was about ready to buy one until I started fancying a BMCC. I'm very glad I didn't buy another 5D Mark III. The BMCC is so far beyond a DSLR that I don't know if I'll ever pick up a DSLR for video again, especially after my BM Pocket Camera arrives.

As someone said earlier, ask a stills photog if they would ever give up raw. Once you have it in video, you won't want to either.

And, the 4:2:2 modes on the BMCC blow away my Canons in resolution and color.

I've ordered both new cameras, but will probably cancel the 4k. I really don't have a need for it. The Pocket cam will solve one issue that I don't like about the BMCC vs. a DSLR: the BMCC's form factor is not "handheld-friendly". Like Cayenne, I plan to buy one MFT lens (the Panny 12-35 with IS) and use the cam as a "walking around" cam. If an active-MFT to active-EF adapter comes out, all the better so I can use all my EF-mount glass.

A correction to something in this thread. The BMCC does suffer from moire. However, because it resolves so much detail, it is actually possible to reduce the effects of the moire and clean it up nicely, mostly through chroma blur. In doing so, the moire isn't bothersome to me on this camera, when it was something I just hated about some DSLRs.

There is a reason that BMD has stolen the show at NAB two years in a row. They're delivering what people want.

The next traditional companies that need to start worrying are the Adobe's and Apple's: BMD's DaVinci Resolve might end up replacing their post tools. Resolve is amazing.

Please give us a good review when you get the BM camera(s)!!

I've never been one to test the water with both feet so to speak.....so, I'm gonna let a few of the pocket BM cameras come out, and find what people like about them, difficulties, and most importantly to me...what they find are the best lenses to get for it.

I would like to use as much of my EF glass with it I could (with an adaptor that hopefully would work), but I do realize that I'll need something MUCH wider to add with that to make the camera useful in more situations.

C

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2013, 12:20:53 PM »