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Author Topic: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?  (Read 3956 times)

VitorMachado

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Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« on: April 09, 2013, 11:55:12 PM »
Hey everyone. I just ordered the 6D (not here 'till tomorrow) and I was wondering about something. I know some cameras come with drained batteries already, but what about the 6D? Should I use the charge it has (if any) until it dies, THEN charge.. OR should I take the battery from the beginning, no matter what charge it has, and charge it over night. Hopefully someone can send some help my way. Thanks!
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Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« on: April 09, 2013, 11:55:12 PM »

WillThompson

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 12:06:23 AM »
When you get it charge it untill the Canon charger shows charge compleate. 

That is all that is needed.

It is a smart charger!

Will T.
Will T.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 12:07:40 AM »
Charge it fully, just as your manual tells you to on pg 29.  It takes about 2.5 hours.
 
 

VitorMachado

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 09:26:22 AM »
Thanks for the replies. Would it be risky to use my other Canon battery in it as the original 6D battery charges? I want to use it right away  8)
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AlanF

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 10:23:20 AM »
Yes, as long as it is an LP-E6. I share 4 of them, 3 old and the new one from the 5DIii, with it and my old 7D.
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 11:20:08 AM »
Thanks for the replies. Would it be risky to use my other Canon battery in it as the original 6D battery charges? I want to use it right away  8)
You can use the old battery safely, but there have been a lot of compatability issues noted while trying to charge the old battery in a new charger.  If that does not work, ask Canon to replace your old batteries.
 
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Skirball

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 01:19:27 PM »
As a rule of thumb, you should never allow Li-Ion batteries like the LP-E6 to drain completely. Lithium Ion cells have improved longevity if you constantly top them up, or in other words re-charge them when they reduce to about 15-20% charge. Allowing the batteries to be used up completely - squeezing that last shot out of them - will reduce the number of complete recharge cycles that you'll get out of them.

I'm curious if Canon makes the camera shut off at a certain voltage, above the trigger point for the protection circuit in the LiIon.  Seems like it would be easy and allow you to run the battery until the camera shuts off.

I don't fully buy into this hype about topping off all the time.  Yes, read plenty of articles on it, most of them regurgitation of some points made in a article on battery university.  I remember some stats on recharge cycles vs percentage of discharge, and of course the 5% or 10% discharge had many more recharge cycles...  but nobody points out that you only get to use 10% of your battery.  It better have a lot more recharge cycles, at least 10X just to break even, and more to make it worth my while.

I usually pull my batteries out when I get the low battery warning, if I have a spare handy.  If I don't I won't hesitate to ride it until it turns off.   Maybe if you burn through a battery a day, 5+ days a week I can see how it'll add up.  But LiIon batteries start degrading the moment their built, most specs I've seen give them somewhere between a 2 and 5 year lifespan.  1000 recharge cycles, 5 years - 200 a year.  Whatever, beats popping them into the charger every night after a small shoot.

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 01:19:27 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 01:25:18 PM »


I'm curious if Canon makes the camera shut off at a certain voltage, above the trigger point for the protection circuit in the LiIon.  Seems like it would be easy and allow you to run the battery until the camera shuts off.

Its built into the Li-on battery, its in all of them.  The electronics shuts off power to the camera with a safety margin.  Without that, li-on batteries would die the first time they were fully discharged.  Its a good idea to store them partially charged.
 
 

Skirball

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 01:39:03 PM »


I'm curious if Canon makes the camera shut off at a certain voltage, above the trigger point for the protection circuit in the LiIon.  Seems like it would be easy and allow you to run the battery until the camera shuts off.

Its built into the Li-on battery, its in all of them.  The electronics shuts off power to the camera with a safety margin.  Without that, li-on batteries would die the first time they were fully discharged.  Its a good idea to store them partially charged.

No, I know that.  That's the protection circuit.  But the camera could choose to call a dead battery at any voltage it wants.  I believe the protection circuit is around 2.5V?  So if you made the camera turn itself off at 2.7, then you can run the camera to depletion, but you're not 'deep discharging' the battery.

Edit:  Obviously the camera goes dead at a voltage before tripping the circuit, I'm just curious how much that buffer is.  If running a camera till it's dead means you took the battery to 99.9%, or 90%.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 01:40:52 PM by Skirball »

Skirball

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 02:19:37 PM »
As a rule of thumb, you should never allow Li-Ion batteries like the LP-E6 to drain completely. Lithium Ion cells have improved longevity if you constantly top them up, or in other words re-charge them when they reduce to about 15-20% charge. Allowing the batteries to be used up completely - squeezing that last shot out of them - will reduce the number of complete recharge cycles that you'll get out of them.

I'm curious if Canon makes the camera shut off at a certain voltage, above the trigger point for the protection circuit in the LiIon.  Seems like it would be easy and allow you to run the battery until the camera shuts off.

I don't fully buy into this hype about topping off all the time.  Yes, read plenty of articles on it, most of them regurgitation of some points made in a article on battery university.  I remember some stats on recharge cycles vs percentage of discharge, and of course the 5% or 10% discharge had many more recharge cycles...  but nobody points out that you only get to use 10% of your battery.  It better have a lot more recharge cycles, at least 10X just to break even, and more to make it worth my while.

I usually pull my batteries out when I get the low battery warning, if I have a spare handy.  If I don't I won't hesitate to ride it until it turns off.   Maybe if you burn through a battery a day, 5+ days a week I can see how it'll add up.  But LiIon batteries start degrading the moment their built, most specs I've seen give them somewhere between a 2 and 5 year lifespan.  1000 recharge cycles, 5 years - 200 a year.  Whatever, beats popping them into the charger every night after a small shoot.

I bought a new DELL laptop in 2006 and used it out and about (mainly at cafes and coffee shops) with free WiFi as broadband was not available where I lived at that time. The Li-Ion battery lasted <3 months. It cost me 117 euros (about $150) for a replacement battery, but I learnt my lesson and plugged the AC into the laptop after using for an hour or so - that 2nd battery still works today 7 years on. Leaving a Lithium Ion battery go to zero repeatedly = buying a lot more replacement batteries. I have 5 LP-E6 batteries for more than 2 years and health = 3-Bars on all of them, despite heavy HD video usage (once for 9 hours continuously with my 7D).

As others have said, keep them partly charged at all times and they'll last for years.

Sorry to hear of your experience, but it's an n=1 and a lot of variables.  My previous laptop was an HP that I bought for $300 and I used to run it dry all the time and it lasted years; longer than the laptop.

I'm not saying don't take care of your batteries, and I'm not advocating intentionally running them until the camera turns off, I just think the idea is a little over-hyped, that's all.  I understand and accept that running my batteries down will take some toll on the total life, but I find the convenience to outweigh the risk for my uses.

akraj

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 03:39:21 PM »
As a rule of thumb, you should never allow Li-Ion batteries like the LP-E6 to drain completely. Lithium Ion cells have improved longevity if you constantly top them up, or in other words re-charge them when they reduce to about 15-20% charge. Allowing the batteries to be used up completely - squeezing that last shot out of them - will reduce the number of complete recharge cycles that you'll get out of them.

+1
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comsense

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2013, 06:17:15 PM »
As a rule of thumb, you should never allow Li-Ion batteries like the LP-E6 to drain completely. Lithium Ion cells have improved longevity if you constantly top them up, or in other words re-charge them when they reduce to about 15-20% charge. Allowing the batteries to be used up completely - squeezing that last shot out of them - will reduce the number of complete recharge cycles that you'll get out of them.

I'm curious if Canon makes the camera shut off at a certain voltage, above the trigger point for the protection circuit in the LiIon.  Seems like it would be easy and allow you to run the battery until the camera shuts off.

I don't fully buy into this hype about topping off all the time.  Yes, read plenty of articles on it, most of them regurgitation of some points made in a article on battery university.  I remember some stats on recharge cycles vs percentage of discharge, and of course the 5% or 10% discharge had many more recharge cycles...  but nobody points out that you only get to use 10% of your battery.  It better have a lot more recharge cycles, at least 10X just to break even, and more to make it worth my while.

I usually pull my batteries out when I get the low battery warning, if I have a spare handy.  If I don't I won't hesitate to ride it until it turns off.   Maybe if you burn through a battery a day, 5+ days a week I can see how it'll add up.  But LiIon batteries start degrading the moment their built, most specs I've seen give them somewhere between a 2 and 5 year lifespan.  1000 recharge cycles, 5 years - 200 a year.  Whatever, beats popping them into the charger every night after a small shoot.

I bought a new DELL laptop in 2006 and used it out and about (mainly at cafes and coffee shops) with free WiFi as broadband was not available where I lived at that time. The Li-Ion battery lasted <3 months. It cost me 117 euros (about $150) for a replacement battery, but I learnt my lesson and plugged the AC into the laptop after using for an hour or so - that 2nd battery still works today 7 years on. Leaving a Lithium Ion battery go to zero repeatedly = buying a lot more replacement batteries. I have 5 LP-E6 batteries for more than 2 years and health = 3-Bars on all of them, despite heavy HD video usage (once for 9 hours continuously with my 7D).

As others have said, keep them partly charged at all times and they'll last for years.
-1
There is a saying that "half knowledge is worse that no knowledge"
If using your battery till your camera/laptop dies was so bad, there will be some note in the product manual (not every corporation is evil trying to sell as many batteries as possible). What you are talking about is called deep discharge. If you store the depleted Li-Ion battery for long term (months), it may discharge below threshold and open built in safety circuit that would brick the battery. So its absolutely safe to use the battery till your camera is dead if you are going to put it back in charger immediately or soon enough.
However, since the charge cycle is additive (meaning discharging the battery to 50% and recharging to twice would count as 1 cycle instead of 2) you can recharge it whenever you want without worrying about depleting cycles. Now here is a catch - After 30 cycles or so, repeated partial discharge could create a digital memory leading to faulty power gauge. So still the best practice would be to let them deplete to near complete discharge (not deep discharge) i.e. using till camera is dead but charge them back immediately. Always store them at full charge or at least 50% or more.
Single data point statement aka blog wisdom: Have used all Li-Ion batteries this was and my batteries always outlast the device or live way past stated optimal cycles (One laptop battery lasted record 5+ years with good amount of use).
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 06:35:29 PM by comsense »

Spooky

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 06:43:51 PM »
Having used lipo & liIon batteries for other things, in my experience they do not suffer any memory effect. What kills them is allowing them to discharge well below the minimum cell voltages. So, you can safely let the camera die, but don't then leave the cell for months on end without at least giving it some charge or it will continue to self discharge to the point of failure.
This is especially important when these cells are put into packs, such as laptops, as the cells can become unbalanced over time and lead to one or more cells discharging below their min voltage.
The Canon (single) cells seem to tolerate a fair bit of abuse and should last fine as long as there is some charge kept in them, as per comsense's post, fully recharge them after draining them. :)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 06:56:06 PM by Spooky »

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Re: Charge new LP-E6 batter over night?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 06:43:51 PM »