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Author Topic: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?  (Read 10444 times)

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2013, 05:21:48 PM »
Having had one, its a fine camera, but, as noted, even with high end Nikon Glass, its is difficult to get the resolution that the body can provide.
 

Let's suppose one buys a D800 and a few lenses capable of exploiting its resolution.  When you and others refer to difficulty (presumably this involves the need for a tripod, mirror lock-up, etc., and attendant skills) of realizing the camera's potential, are you saying that someone who chooses for whatever reason to use it hand-held will, other things being equal, get photos that are worse, or at least no better, than if he had used a D600 or D700 or 5DII/III or 6D etc., or that they will still look better, but not as good as they could?

Back when DPR first tested it using the 50mm Nikon lens, they had and mentioned that they found it took extreme care to get the sharpest images, even with their studio setup and heavy duty tripod, it was difficult to consistently get the resolution they expected.  After buying mine to use with a 24-70mmG, I concur, its difficult but not impossible.  For landscape photographers who are accustomed to spending long periods waiting for the perfect image, this is not a big deal.
 
Using similar care, you certainly won't get worse resolution than 5D MK III or similar, so thats not a issue unless you expected to get higher resolution.  You will get excellent DR, even with a lesser lens.
 
The Huge raw files, and they really get big when you set a high ISO are slow to process unless you also get the latest computer with SSD's.  I just upgraded from a first version intel i7 to the latest with fast SSD's, a ton of memory, and they now process in a reasonable amount of time.
 
Many users don't want to drop 2K or more on a new computer when they have one three years old that seems fine. 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 06:44:30 PM by Mt Spokane Photography »

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2013, 05:21:48 PM »

archiea

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2013, 07:01:55 PM »
I believe many people going from D700 to D800 where kinda overwhelmed by the transition from 12 to 36 MP.

A higher pixel density requires a different handling. When people keep using the same glass as before and doing things in the same way as before, results can be disappointing. It's no camera for a "run&gun" style - many D700 users switched to the 5D3 for this reason. Same is true for the computer hardware in post-processing. This is why a transition to D600's 24MP is often softer and more manageable.

Another possibility is that people are happy enough with the cheaper, lighter, D600. I have one and I seriously can't complain about a thing (except the 1/4000s max shutter speed). Things that the D600 lacks of, the D800 does too. I believe many people find the D600 + D7100 combo overall more effective than the D800 alone.

I had to go through a transition period when going from an 8mp 30D to a 18 MP 7D, its true. You have to learn to not pixel peep in many ways. And likely, the 36 MP buyers are pixel peepers..

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2013, 07:19:44 PM »
I believe many people going from D700 to D800 where kinda overwhelmed by the transition from 12 to 36 MP.

A higher pixel density requires a different handling. When people keep using the same glass as before and doing things in the same way as before, results can be disappointing. It's no camera for a "run&gun" style - many D700 users switched to the 5D3 for this reason. Same is true for the computer hardware in post-processing. This is why a transition to D600's 24MP is often softer and more manageable.

Another possibility is that people are happy enough with the cheaper, lighter, D600. I have one and I seriously can't complain about a thing (except the 1/4000s max shutter speed). Things that the D600 lacks of, the D800 does too. I believe many people find the D600 + D7100 combo overall more effective than the D800 alone.

I had to go through a transition period when going from an 8mp 30D to a 18 MP 7D, its true. You have to learn to not pixel peep in many ways. And likely, the 36 MP buyers are pixel peepers..

I certainly check 1:1.  No need to buy a 36mp or a 18mp body if you don't or can't realize the resolution.  Buyers expect to get more resoluton, or they'd just keep their D700's.
 
Thats why I wonder at reviews that reduce resolution to 8mp to compare sensors.

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2013, 07:49:39 PM »
I see a lot of the old "there are no lenses good enough for 36MP!" cries going on in this thread.

That is just not true.  The final resolution of a camera system is a function of all of the pieces in that system.  A higher resolution sensor will increase the overall resolving power of the system.

But don't take my word for it.  Go see the tests here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison

Note that the Nikon 24-70 by itself is less sharp than the Canon 24-70.  However, when fitted to a D800 it out-resolves a Canon 24-70 on a 5D Mk III... the higher resolution of the sensor making up for some of the inherit deficit in the lens.

I just can't wait until a ~36MP Canon comes out and we can stop seeing all of these ridiculous "I would never use 36MP!" posts.  Everyone can use more resolution, regardless of your style of shooting.  Now whether you truly "need" 36MP (to the point where you would put down your money for it) is something else...

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2013, 09:10:34 PM »
Use it properly and the D800/e really supplies the goods.
Use it with lesser lenses and you still benefit from superior low noise performance.

I've been getting satisfactory overall IQ with the 70-200/4 VR handheld even in poor light.
.. As long as it's not too cold.  The VR seems to freeze up after a while if it's well below freezing outside.  Nikon rep reminds me that it's really only a "consumer" lens after all.  yep...  guess so.

I've been a little disappointed to see how much resale has dropped on D800s recently.  Was hoping to recoup some cash for other uses by selling one of mine but now I doubt it's worthwhile.  May as well get another year or 2's use from it.  The little d5100s have held their value better as a percentage of initial purchase price.

Added a Pentax K-5 IIs to the stable this week.  I like it, sort of a super-rebel feature-wise, not the best AF system, despite improvements.  It's spot on when it works but it's not as nice an AF system as Canon or Nikon provide, kinda hokey when it comes to selecting AF point and operation.  But, it's more than adequate for what I want from it and it fits like a fine glove - with impressive ISO performance at BOTH ends of the scale.

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2013, 09:28:59 PM »
Use it properly and the D800/e really supplies the goods.
Use it with lesser lenses and you still benefit from superior low noise performance.

I've been getting satisfactory overall IQ with the 70-200/4 VR handheld even in poor light.
.. As long as it's not too cold.  The VR seems to freeze up after a while if it's well below freezing outside.  Nikon rep reminds me that it's really only a "consumer" lens after all.  yep...  guess so.

I've been a little disappointed to see how much resale has dropped on D800s recently.  Was hoping to recoup some cash for other uses by selling one of mine but now I doubt it's worthwhile.  May as well get another year or 2's use from it.  The little d5100s have held their value better as a percentage of initial purchase price.

Added a Pentax K-5 IIs to the stable this week.  I like it, sort of a super-rebel feature-wise, not the best AF system, despite improvements.  It's spot on when it works but it's not as nice an AF system as Canon or Nikon provide, kinda hokey when it comes to selecting AF point and operation.  But, it's more than adequate for what I want from it and it fits like a fine glove - with impressive ISO performance at BOTH ends of the scale.
Overall I don't think you should be disappointed. Owners of Canon and Nikon will get a greater resale value than owners of more obscure brands. It's like selling a BMW compared to selling a Yugo. The D800 and the 5D3 are very likely to be popular on the used market for years.

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2013, 10:39:48 PM »
When the price of a new D800E from B&H drops down to $2500, I may want to sell my D800 to buy another D800E as a backup body.  I did shoot my 5D3 just last week because I decided to try out the new 24-70.  Which, by the way, looks very good and well built and is a real pleasure to use - Good Going Canon!.  Right now I've been cleaning the sensor on the D800 and I see no camera is immune from dirt gathered during a windy day when changing lenses.  Now there is a topic I'd like to see discussed regardless of camera brand.  Maybe some people selling their cameras clean their sensors with comet....

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2013, 10:39:48 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2013, 12:12:34 AM »
I see a lot of the old "there are no lenses good enough for 36MP!" cries going on in this thread.

That is just not true.  The final resolution of a camera system is a function of all of the pieces in that system.  A higher resolution sensor will increase the overall resolving power of the system.

But don't take my word for it.  Go see the tests here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison

Note that the Nikon 24-70 by itself is less sharp than the Canon 24-70.  However, when fitted to a D800 it out-resolves a Canon 24-70 on a 5D Mk III... the higher resolution of the sensor making up for some of the inherit deficit in the lens.

I just can't wait until a ~36MP Canon comes out and we can stop seeing all of these ridiculous "I would never use 36MP!" posts.  Everyone can use more resolution, regardless of your style of shooting.  Now whether you truly "need" 36MP (to the point where you would put down your money for it) is something else...

 
The D800 is certainly a nice camera, I wouldn't think there is any argument there.
 
I paid $3,000 for my D8oo last May, and its dropped in value by $800 more or less.  I paid $2700 net ($50 Rebate) at Adorama for my 5D MK III last September after selling the D800, and the average used 5D MK III now sells for almost $2800 on ebay.
 
I was asking why users thought the D800 price had dropped so much in comparison.  Even if you consider that the 5D MK III has dropped $800 from its original selling price, it isstill a lower percentage price reduction.

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2013, 01:02:03 AM »
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
 
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.


Well at least they're holding their value better than the 5D Mark III!

Debut'd at $3499 and has been on sale new for as little as $2799. Don't know about 2nd hand prices but they'd have to be less.

The new price of a D800 has dropped from $3000 to $2800.

5D3 with $700 (20%) drop vs D800 with $200 (7%) drop.

Easy to see which has held its price better.

I can see a few D800s for sale at or below $2200 2nd hand, but it has had a good workout at 17,000 snaps!

Maybe you should ask the sellers why they are selling rather than create a troll topic here?

All reputable stores are selling the 5D MK III for $3299 ... the $2799 you are quoting are "flash" sales i.e. just a couple of hundred units to promote a particular store (like Big Value Inc etc) for a very brief period.
So comparing "flash" sales of 5D MK III with the normal selling price of D800 is unfair. If you are going to compare at least be fair in also comparing the "flash" sales of D800 ... the last flash sale I saw of D800 was $2349.
IMHO both cameras are holding their price drops quite similarly.

Just to clear things up a little? where and when have you seen a D800 at $2349? The only time i've seen that price is a one time deal on Refurbished D800's.  I don't think i've ever seen a D800 new for less than $2800, while i've seen the 5DIII at under $3000 many times.
From my experience, I think it's pretty clear that Canon plays the high MSRP/Future discounts game much more aggressively than Nikon does.... at least in the past few years.

I had seen a few on ebay stores (could be Big Value Inc but not sure), also STAPLES sold Nikon D800s for $2278.49 (including tax) and here is a web link that provides proof including copies of the receipts: http://fstoppers.com/ymmv-all-cameras-sale-30-percent-off-staples
I agree that Canon "plays the high MSRP/Future discounts game much more aggressively than Nikon does".
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 01:12:42 AM by Rienzphotoz »
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dilbert

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2013, 05:28:57 AM »
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
 
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.


Well at least they're holding their value better than the 5D Mark III!

Debut'd at $3499 and has been on sale new for as little as $2799. Don't know about 2nd hand prices but they'd have to be less.

The new price of a D800 has dropped from $3000 to $2800.

5D3 with $700 (20%) drop vs D800 with $200 (7%) drop.

Easy to see which has held its price better.

I can see a few D800s for sale at or below $2200 2nd hand, but it has had a good workout at 17,000 snaps!

Maybe you should ask the sellers why they are selling rather than create a troll topic here?

All reputable stores are selling the 5D MK III for $3299 ... the $2799 you are quoting are "flash" sales i.e. just a couple of hundred units to promote a particular store (like Big Value Inc etc) for a very brief period.
So comparing "flash" sales of 5D MK III with the normal selling price of D800 is unfair. If you are going to compare at least be fair in also comparing the "flash" sales of D800 ... the last flash sale I saw of D800 was $2349.
IMHO both cameras are holding their price drops quite similarly.


For the D800, price information came from:
http://www.nikonpricewatch.com/product/03848/Nikon-D800-price.html

For the 5D3, price information came from:
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03868/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-price.html

dilbert

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2013, 05:35:29 AM »
I certainly check 1:1.  No need to buy a 36mp or a 18mp body if you don't or can't realize the resolution.  Buyers expect to get more resoluton, or they'd just keep their D700's.
 
Thats why I wonder at reviews that reduce resolution to 8mp to compare sensors.

The "reduction to 8MP" is not an exercise to establish sharpness or resolution but rather sensor quality.

Why would you do that?

Because when you print to A4, you use all 36MP to cover that A4 page just as you do 21MP or 12MP.
Same again with A3 or A2 or any other size of paper.

The "lets reduce everything to 8MP" might not make sense if you're a pixel peeper but if you're a printer then it most certainly does.

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2013, 12:59:56 PM »
I see a lot of the old "there are no lenses good enough for 36MP!" cries going on in this thread.

That is just not true.  The final resolution of a camera system is a function of all of the pieces in that system.  A higher resolution sensor will increase the overall resolving power of the system.

But don't take my word for it.  Go see the tests here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison

Note that the Nikon 24-70 by itself is less sharp than the Canon 24-70.  However, when fitted to a D800 it out-resolves a Canon 24-70 on a 5D Mk III... the higher resolution of the sensor making up for some of the inherit deficit in the lens.

I just can't wait until a ~36MP Canon comes out and we can stop seeing all of these ridiculous "I would never use 36MP!" posts.  Everyone can use more resolution, regardless of your style of shooting.  Now whether you truly "need" 36MP (to the point where you would put down your money for it) is something else...

 
The D800 is certainly a nice camera, I wouldn't think there is any argument there.
 
I paid $3,000 for my D8oo last May, and its dropped in value by $800 more or less.  I paid $2700 net ($50 Rebate) at Adorama for my 5D MK III last September after selling the D800, and the average used 5D MK III now sells for almost $2800 on ebay.
 
I was asking why users thought the D800 price had dropped so much in comparison.  Even if you consider that the 5D MK III has dropped $800 from its original selling price, it isstill a lower percentage price reduction.


what is it to discuss? Canon do not have a high resolution camera as Nikon and with 14 stops DR

 ???
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2013, 01:51:35 PM »
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
 
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.


Well at least they're holding their value better than the 5D Mark III!

Debut'd at $3499 and has been on sale new for as little as $2799. Don't know about 2nd hand prices but they'd have to be less.

The new price of a D800 has dropped from $3000 to $2800.

5D3 with $700 (20%) drop vs D800 with $200 (7%) drop.

Easy to see which has held its price better.

I can see a few D800s for sale at or below $2200 2nd hand, but it has had a good workout at 17,000 snaps!

Maybe you should ask the sellers why they are selling rather than create a troll topic here?

All reputable stores are selling the 5D MK III for $3299 ... the $2799 you are quoting are "flash" sales i.e. just a couple of hundred units to promote a particular store (like Big Value Inc etc) for a very brief period.
So comparing "flash" sales of 5D MK III with the normal selling price of D800 is unfair. If you are going to compare at least be fair in also comparing the "flash" sales of D800 ... the last flash sale I saw of D800 was $2349.
IMHO both cameras are holding their price drops quite similarly.


For the D800, price information came from:
http://www.nikonpricewatch.com/product/03848/Nikon-D800-price.html

For the 5D3, price information came from:
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03868/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-price.html

 
I bought it from Adorama, a authorized dealer.  True, it was a short sale, the average price at the time was about $2900.

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2013, 01:51:35 PM »

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2013, 02:59:32 PM »
what I meant was that d800 was cheap from the beginning, high resolution, good AF and great DR and great response even if there are "only" 4 pictures /sec
I agree, that D800 is a great camera ... on many occasions I thought of getting it but I have a few Canon lenses which I really like and I don't want to invest in high end Nikkor glass at the moment (Nikkor glass is very expensive compared to most equivalent Canon glass, that's where Nikon slices people very nicely) ... but I have and continue to keep at least 1 Nikon DSLR (currently it is D7000 + 18-300 VR ... waiting to get dump the D7000 for D7100 when there is a good sale or when a low priced refurb shows up).
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2013, 05:15:26 PM »
I think that about everyone has given their opinion.
Thanks.  I'm locking my thread.

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Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2013, 05:15:26 PM »