April 16, 2014, 10:45:07 PM

Author Topic: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]  (Read 36664 times)

x-vision

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2013, 01:58:40 PM »
Why would I pay the same price as a Nikon D7100, for a camera with fewer features ??? Will the 70D have 51 point autofocus ??? Will the 70D shutter be tested 150,000 cycles ??? Will the 70D have a 2,016 pixel RGB 3D Matrix Metering System ??? Will the 70D have dual SDXC slots ???

+1000

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2013, 01:58:40 PM »

x-vision

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2013, 02:09:11 PM »
As for the rest of your specs...well, they're meaningless.

This is a typical fanboy response.

When a Canon has better specs, it wins hands down.
But if a Nikon has better specs, then this is irrelevant in the 'real world'.

FYI, this is not how things work with buyers.
Buyers look at the price and the specs and then ponder if the camera offers good value.

The D7100 offers exceptional value.
If Canon doesn't match that, then they'd better offer the 70D for cheap.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 02:10:54 PM by x-vision »

Sella174

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2013, 02:09:38 PM »
Um...why?

... so what's there to be gained by ISO 25?

About the only purpose would be for slower shutter speeds with wide apertures in bright light, but that's what neutral density filters are for -- not to mention, an uncommon and somewhat specialized area of photography where anybody serious about it is already going to know that you can't get good results with low ISO alone.

Over here in Africa we used to shoot with ASA 50 as standard, so I guess it's just something I'm used to from my film days. Using ISO 100 my shutter speeds go to 1/2000~4000 easily, but usually around 1/1000 most of the time. ND filters are a hassle.

My point was more that low-light and high-ISO performance isn't that important to everybody. Maybe I'm the only one, but at least that doesn't make it everyone.


On another point ... the 30D has a pretty crummy AF and I haven't really seen anything improve in the later models. Unfortunately for me the benchmark is the EOS 3 camera ... anything else since then has just been toy-grade.
Sold most of my Canon gear ... here's what's left: EOS 30D (x2), EF 24mm f/2.8, EF Compact-Macro 50mm f/2.5, EF 70-200mm f/4L USM.

stipotle

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2013, 02:25:41 PM »
[T]he 5D Mark III does not present such a technological leap[....]

Erm, that's complete bollocks.

Best autofocus system of any camera on the market at the time of its release, best high ISO performance of any camera on the market at the time of its release, best video of any consumer DSLR....

There's a whole hell of a lot more to a camera than just its megapickle count.

Anybody who claims that the 5DIII isn't a big deal isn't a photographer or is just plain clueless.

It may well be the case that the advancements made in the 5DIII aren't relevant to your particular type of photography. And, if all you do is low ISO work of static subjects, you'd be exactly right.

But that's such a marginal part of photography that's already been so well served that it's ludicrous to suggest that that's all that matters.

Cheers,

b&

+1

To call the the MkII is a "superb" camera, and then in the same sentence say that the MkIII isn't good enough makes me think you haven't even held one, let alone put one through it's paces. Have fun with your DXO sensor scores, but on the whole, it's undeniably in a different league than the MkII.   

c.d.embrey

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #94 on: April 16, 2013, 02:27:21 PM »
As for the rest of your specs...well, they're meaningless.

This is a typical fanboy response.

When a Canon has better specs, it wins hands down.
But if a Nikon has better specs, then this is irrelevant in the 'real world'.

FYI, this is not how things work with buyers.
Buyers look at the price and the specs and then ponder if the camera offers good value.

The D7100 offers exceptional value.
If Canon doesn't match that, then they'd better offer the 70D for cheap.

Why do you hate Canon so much :) :) :)

Nice to see someone else who lives in the real world :) :) :)

stipotle

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #95 on: April 16, 2013, 02:28:41 PM »
[T]he 5D Mark III does not present such a technological leap[....]

Erm, that's complete bollocks.

Best autofocus system of any camera on the market at the time of its release, best high ISO performance of any camera on the market at the time of its release, best video of any consumer DSLR....

There's a whole hell of a lot more to a camera than just its megapickle count.

Anybody who claims that the 5DIII isn't a big deal isn't a photographer or is just plain clueless.

It may well be the case that the advancements made in the 5DIII aren't relevant to your particular type of photography. And, if all you do is low ISO work of static subjects, you'd be exactly right.

But that's such a marginal part of photography that's already been so well served that it's ludicrous to suggest that that's all that matters.

Cheers,

b&

So you are saying the 5D Mark III's AF and ISO performance is better than the 1DX?  My point is many people upgraded just to have the latest and greatest.  I would bet you 95% of 5D Mark III upgraders never go above ISO 640

-1
I'll take that bet.
That's a joke right? Or at least exaggeration for the sake of creating a point?

stipotle

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #96 on: April 16, 2013, 02:37:22 PM »
Why would I pay the same price as a Nikon D7100, for a camera with fewer features ??? Will the 70D have 51 point autofocus ??? Will the 70D shutter be tested 150,000 cycles ??? Will the 70D have a 2,016 pixel RGB 3D Matrix Metering System ??? Will the 70D have dual SDXC slots ???

Shutter lifecycle is irrelevant ...

Dual memory card slots are irrelevant  ...

As for the rest of your specs...well, they're meaningless. What matters is the actual real-world autofocus and metering performance, ...


So you think that 61 point autofocus is important on a 1Dx, but irrelavant on a 70D ??? The nice thing about Nikon is that they treat all their customers with respect. Nikon has no second class citizens when it come to autofocus and metering.

In a marketing driven world, having lesser specifications won't win the sales war.

Nikon only has second class citizens when it comes to their customer service ;)
Better specs don't equal respect, they are trying to compete.

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #96 on: April 16, 2013, 02:37:22 PM »

Sella174

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2013, 02:54:17 PM »
Personally I think Canon has painted themselves into a corner with their mid-range cameras. The xxxD range offers exceptional value in terms of what you get and what you pay for it. The 1D and 5D series are workhorses. Where does that leave the xxD, 7D and 6D cameras? Let's face it, on paper the 700D has a better AF system than the 6D - except for centre-point zero-light capability. What's going to differentiate the 70D from the 7DII and the xxxD line?
Sold most of my Canon gear ... here's what's left: EOS 30D (x2), EF 24mm f/2.8, EF Compact-Macro 50mm f/2.5, EF 70-200mm f/4L USM.

c.d.embrey

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2013, 03:12:54 PM »

Nikon only has second class citizens when it comes to their customer service ;)
Better specs don't equal respect, they are trying to compete.

About the only thing stoping many people from switching is Nikons abysmal service recornd in the USA. At one time Nikon had a good reputation ... but NOT anymore.

BTW Nikon has had better focusing and metering for a long time, I've never understood Canon's lack of competitivness in this area. I guess focusing and metering aren't at the head of the list for Canon users ;)

bereninga

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2013, 03:30:06 PM »
Personally I think Canon has painted themselves into a corner with their mid-range cameras. The xxxD range offers exceptional value in terms of what you get and what you pay for it. The 1D and 5D series are workhorses. Where does that leave the xxD, 7D and 6D cameras? Let's face it, on paper the 700D has a better AF system than the 6D - except for centre-point zero-light capability. What's going to differentiate the 70D from the 7DII and the xxxD line?

I think the 7DII will remain the flagship APS-C camera w/ all the bells and whistles, maybe like a 5DIII just w/ crop sensor. 70D will have to fit somewhere between the 7DII and t5i, much like the 60D fit between the 7D and T3i.

Both 70D and 7DII might share the same sensor (not 18MP) and DIGIC 5 processor, WiFi and GPS, but the 7DII would have dual DIGIC 5, faster fps, dual card slots, better weather-sealing, 100% VF coverage, and different controls. 7DII is the workhorse for sports and wildlife photographers. I imagine the 70D would get the 7D's current AF system and the 7DII would get an AF system like the 5DIII. The 70D will differentiate from the t5i w/ the features the 60D differentiated from the t3i: different controls, weather-sealing, more fps, bigger body, etc.

dilbert

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Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #100 on: April 16, 2013, 03:34:09 PM »
DXO tells us the sensor is useless, yet somehow people manage to take great pictures.

I managed to take great pictures 15 years ago with my SLR and yet I use DSLR nowadays (beyond micro 4/3).
I managed without mobile phone 20 years ago but I use it continuously nowadays.

Technology moves on. Not so Canon's APS-C sensor tech. They are still living in 2009.
The 18 MP is perfectly fine for me and I think for the most (the last thing I'd wish for more MP with Canon's sensor tech from 2009) but hopefully they improve the per pixel quality.

Using an SLR meant that your image quality depended on two things:
1) lens
2) film

Film could be changed whenever you wanted, every 6 months if new film came out that you wanted to use.
Same again with lenses.

Back in the film days, the camera itself was not central to the issue of creating a quality image like it is today.

dilbert

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #101 on: April 16, 2013, 03:38:16 PM »
[T]he 5D Mark III does not present such a technological leap[....]

Erm, that's complete bollocks.

Best autofocus system of any camera on the market at the time of its release, best high ISO performance of any camera on the market at the time of its release, best video of any consumer DSLR....

I'd dispute that on two points.

The 1DX has better tracking.

People who are using the 6D/5D3 are saying that the 6D has a center focal point that works with much lower light than the 5D3.

dilbert

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #102 on: April 16, 2013, 03:41:23 PM »
Anyway, whilst y'all going on about low-light and high-ISO performance, I want low-ISO performance ... ISO 50 ... or better yet, ISO 25.

Um...why?

The 5DIII (I'm not personally familiar with crop cameras) is noise-free at ISO 400. It's just as noise-free at ISO 200 and ISO 100. There's no more noise to be cleaned up, so what's there to be gained by ISO 25?

Being able to use the camera with extremely bright light and not need a filter.

Being able to take longer exposure photographs in normal lighting without needing a filter.

ISO25 film produced some excellent shots.

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #102 on: April 16, 2013, 03:41:23 PM »

Sella174

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #103 on: April 16, 2013, 03:45:00 PM »
I've never understood Canon's lack of competitivness in this area. I guess focusing and metering aren't at the head of the list for Canon users ;)

When I switched from Pentax to Canon in the mid-1990's, I was pretty chuffed with their auto-focus system. The metering system was somewhat iffy, but coming from an S1a with no meter whatsoever the Av and Tv modes were kind of neat. Eventually I switched to digital - the EOS 30D - from an EOS 3 and an EOS 300v. Well, the 300v has a better AF system than the 30D ... faster and more accurate ... and it was an "entry-level" camera!

I think Canon figured a DSLR didn't need a good AF system, simply because it is digital - as opposed to a film camera. So it will sell because it is digital and not because it has a good AF system (or at least as good as the last film cameras). Well, now they're in a corner ... 9, 11, 19, 61 ... big jump that last one. A 70D with 11 points won't hack it against the 700D and is hardly an improvement on the 60D; and 19 points will just make it a tweaked 7D; but how many the 70D will actually have will depend on the 7DII.

I think Canon should rationalise their line-up and merge the 70D and 7DII, as that's the only sensible thing to do. But they won't.
Sold most of my Canon gear ... here's what's left: EOS 30D (x2), EF 24mm f/2.8, EF Compact-Macro 50mm f/2.5, EF 70-200mm f/4L USM.

Albi86

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #104 on: April 16, 2013, 03:58:10 PM »
As for the rest of your specs...well, they're meaningless.

This is a typical fanboy response.

When a Canon has better specs, it wins hands down.
But if a Nikon has better specs, then this is irrelevant in the 'real world'.

FYI, this is not how things work with buyers.
Buyers look at the price and the specs and then ponder if the camera offers good value.

The D7100 offers exceptional value.
If Canon doesn't match that, then they'd better offer the 70D for cheap.

+1

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Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #104 on: April 16, 2013, 03:58:10 PM »