December 10, 2016, 03:48:41 PM

Author Topic: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]  (Read 78930 times)

Sella174

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 711
  • So there!
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #105 on: April 17, 2013, 03:03:16 AM »
So, do please tell me: in what real-world shooting situation would you want a shutter speed two stops slower (ISO 100 => ISO 25) that you can't reasonably stop down an additional two stops (f/4 => f/8) where you wouldn't already need significant ND filters in the first place?

For effect, the aperture is kept as open as possible ... accentuate the subject, blur the background ... and not necessarily people ... but road signs, trains, etc.

Sunny-16 rule ... ISO 100, f/16, 1/125 ... thus ISO 100, f/2.8, 1/4000.

Now, I'm not really complaining, because my 30D's can do 1/8000. But seeing as there is a trend with Canon on reducing the maximum shutter speed down to 1/4000, it means I'm already shooting at the limit ... and this reduces the flexibility of a DSLR over an FSLR ...

Photographing an aircraft where I want the background blurred, as well as the propeller, requires a wide aperture and a slow shutter speed. ND filters work, but as I've said, they're a hassle ... especially when the subjects (and hence shooting conditions) change rapidly ... remove hood, remove ND filter, put ND filter in pouch, replace hood, put pouch in pocket ... see same type of shot ... redo in reverse ... miss shot ... swear ... get fingerprint smudge on filter ... swear again ... ... as opposed to press button ... adjust ISO ... shoot.
Happily ignoring the laws of physics and the rules of photography to create better pictures.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #105 on: April 17, 2013, 03:03:16 AM »

CanNotYet

  • EOS M3
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #106 on: April 17, 2013, 03:41:26 AM »
Regarding differentiation. I am not sure Canon can keep the 70D at 9-points, all cross-type (as 650D/700D). (Well of course they CAN, they are Canon...)

But, although it is imbued with my wishful thinking, I really think it is time for Canon to get some ROI on the 19-pt system in 7D. Putting into 70D would seem like a no-brainer to me, ESPECIALLY if they go the cream-of-the-crop route with 7D2. That route more or less demands an even better AF system than the 7D has today. (Otherwise it would not be the upgrade people crave).

I really do not think 7D2 will keep the same AF-system as the current 7D. And if it does not, getting more ROI from that particular tech would involve putting the system into another body. 70D looks like a plausible candidate.

Besides, it gives the 70D a relation to 7D as the 6D has to 5D2, a modern version with tweaks. Not to mention it would sell like hotcakes. :)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 03:43:06 AM by CanNotYet »

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6329
  • Canon Pride.
    • Der Tierfotograf
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #107 on: April 17, 2013, 04:09:10 AM »
Regarding differentiation. I am not sure Canon can keep the 70D at 9-points, all cross-type (as 650D/700D). (Well of course they CAN, they are Canon...)

Probably they'll add 2 more af points just like 5d2->6d for all you nay-sayers to be happy :-p ? Personally and having looked at Canon's product policy during the last years, I cannot imagine they'll just chuck in the good 7d af system into a xxd system yet - even if they love re-using af arrays.

Sella174

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 711
  • So there!
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #108 on: April 17, 2013, 05:09:42 AM »
I cannot imagine they'll just chuck in the good 7d af system into a xxd system yet

I agree. Canon still has too many other "selling" points in their cameras with which to entice buyers ... "full-frame" sensors, high ISO sensors, more megapixel sensors, HD video sensors, and now integrated WiFi & GPS ...
Happily ignoring the laws of physics and the rules of photography to create better pictures.

Albi86

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 824
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #109 on: April 17, 2013, 06:56:17 AM »

Besides, it gives the 70D a relation to 7D as the 6D has to 5D2, a modern version with tweaks. Not to mention it would sell like hotcakes. :)

It could be a total crap and it would sell like hot cake anyway. It's Canon's offer at that price point, and people who want to buy Canon will buy that - it's their only choice, same with the 6D. This is why Canon can afford to protect the higher-end models without losing market share even when competing products are better specced. A brilliant policy for their stokeholders, much less so for their users.

Edwin Herdman

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #110 on: April 18, 2013, 02:30:56 AM »
Looks like a 7D for SD card users.

It'll be interesting to find out the weight and dimensions on this.  It won't replace my 7D but it surely could be a great upgrade to people who want a smaller SLR.

Zv

  • 1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1678
    • Zeeography (flickr)
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #111 on: April 18, 2013, 06:46:52 AM »
So, do please tell me: in what real-world shooting situation would you want a shutter speed two stops slower (ISO 100 => ISO 25) that you can't reasonably stop down an additional two stops (f/4 => f/8) where you wouldn't already need significant ND filters in the first place?

For effect, the aperture is kept as open as possible ... accentuate the subject, blur the background ... and not necessarily people ... but road signs, trains, etc.

Sunny-16 rule ... ISO 100, f/16, 1/125 ... thus ISO 100, f/2.8, 1/4000.

Now, I'm not really complaining, because my 30D's can do 1/8000. But seeing as there is a trend with Canon on reducing the maximum shutter speed down to 1/4000, it means I'm already shooting at the limit ... and this reduces the flexibility of a DSLR over an FSLR ...

Photographing an aircraft where I want the background blurred, as well as the propeller, requires a wide aperture and a slow shutter speed. ND filters work, but as I've said, they're a hassle ... especially when the subjects (and hence shooting conditions) change rapidly ... remove hood, remove ND filter, put ND filter in pouch, replace hood, put pouch in pocket ... see same type of shot ... redo in reverse ... miss shot ... swear ... get fingerprint smudge on filter ... swear again ... ... as opposed to press button ... adjust ISO ... shoot.

Does a varying ND fader help?
Move along nothing to see here!

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #111 on: April 18, 2013, 06:46:52 AM »

TrumpetPower!

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 946
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #112 on: April 18, 2013, 09:14:05 AM »
So, do please tell me: in what real-world shooting situation would you want a shutter speed two stops slower (ISO 100 => ISO 25) that you can't reasonably stop down an additional two stops (f/4 => f/8) where you wouldn't already need significant ND filters in the first place?

For effect, the aperture is kept as open as possible ... accentuate the subject, blur the background ... and not necessarily people ... but road signs, trains, etc.

Sunny-16 rule ... ISO 100, f/16, 1/125 ... thus ISO 100, f/2.8, 1/4000.

Now, I'm not really complaining, because my 30D's can do 1/8000. But seeing as there is a trend with Canon on reducing the maximum shutter speed down to 1/4000, it means I'm already shooting at the limit ... and this reduces the flexibility of a DSLR over an FSLR ...

Photographing an aircraft where I want the background blurred, as well as the propeller, requires a wide aperture and a slow shutter speed. ND filters work, but as I've said, they're a hassle ... especially when the subjects (and hence shooting conditions) change rapidly ... remove hood, remove ND filter, put ND filter in pouch, replace hood, put pouch in pocket ... see same type of shot ... redo in reverse ... miss shot ... swear ... get fingerprint smudge on filter ... swear again ... ... as opposed to press button ... adjust ISO ... shoot.

Does a varying ND fader help?

They're already all complaining that they can't be bothered to use a filter.

I'm still trying to figure out who'd be wanting to shoot flying aircraft at f/1.4 in the noonday Sun. I mean, seriously? Because that's what it would take to go past the limits of the 30D.

If you're really shooting ultra-fast primes wide open in harsh light, you're doing it for some special effect and you should be prepared to go out of your way to achieve your vision. But I don't think I've ever seen a good shot of a flying aircraft taken with a wide-open 50 f/1.4 on a harsh sunny day by a photographer on the ground, and I really very much doubt I ever will. My heart, it bleeds for these poor souls...but not for their lack of ISO 50.....

Cheers,

b&

Zv

  • 1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1678
    • Zeeography (flickr)
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #113 on: April 18, 2013, 01:22:46 PM »
So, do please tell me: in what real-world shooting situation would you want a shutter speed two stops slower (ISO 100 => ISO 25) that you can't reasonably stop down an additional two stops (f/4 => f/8) where you wouldn't already need significant ND filters in the first place?

For effect, the aperture is kept as open as possible ... accentuate the subject, blur the background ... and not necessarily people ... but road signs, trains, etc.

Sunny-16 rule ... ISO 100, f/16, 1/125 ... thus ISO 100, f/2.8, 1/4000.

Now, I'm not really complaining, because my 30D's can do 1/8000. But seeing as there is a trend with Canon on reducing the maximum shutter speed down to 1/4000, it means I'm already shooting at the limit ... and this reduces the flexibility of a DSLR over an FSLR ...

Photographing an aircraft where I want the background blurred, as well as the propeller, requires a wide aperture and a slow shutter speed. ND filters work, but as I've said, they're a hassle ... especially when the subjects (and hence shooting conditions) change rapidly ... remove hood, remove ND filter, put ND filter in pouch, replace hood, put pouch in pocket ... see same type of shot ... redo in reverse ... miss shot ... swear ... get fingerprint smudge on filter ... swear again ... ... as opposed to press button ... adjust ISO ... shoot.

Does a varying ND fader help?

They're already all complaining that they can't be bothered to use a filter.

I'm still trying to figure out who'd be wanting to shoot flying aircraft at f/1.4 in the noonday Sun. I mean, seriously? Because that's what it would take to go past the limits of the 30D.

If you're really shooting ultra-fast primes wide open in harsh light, you're doing it for some special effect and you should be prepared to go out of your way to achieve your vision. But I don't think I've ever seen a good shot of a flying aircraft taken with a wide-open 50 f/1.4 on a harsh sunny day by a photographer on the ground, and I really very much doubt I ever will. My heart, it bleeds for these poor souls...but not for their lack of ISO 50.....

Cheers,

b&

Oh I see. I just read the latest comment and didn't see the prev ones about all that ISO 25 nonsense.

Like you said - ND filter is the only real option. I don't see why you would be taking it off an on if the conditions are bright then leave it on. You can always increase ISO for more light, no need to remove it.

Stopping down wont make much difference to the background. f/4 works just fine around 200mm if the subject to background ratio is right. No need to shoot wide open.
Move along nothing to see here!

jrista

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 5336
  • EOL
    • Nature Photography
Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #114 on: April 18, 2013, 02:43:47 PM »
Sounds pretty good, it's got everything you need in a mid range crop camera. Wonder how that SL1 sensor is doing so far?

18 megapixels is plenty. Glad they didn't add more. Seems like Canon are putting an end to the megapixel race - until they bring out the big megapixel camera (but that's a high end product for specialists).

Weather sealed? Wonder how much it will get compared to a 7D?

6.5 fps is respectable. I could live with that.

I never liked the 60D to be honest. I picked one up at a camera store, it didn't agree with me and from that point on I ignored it. The 7D was love at first sight! It's like it was custom made for me. A perfect fit.
Exactly! To be honest, I wouldn't mind if my 5D III was 18 MP (without hearing it would be 22.3).
And 6.5 fps is a big improvement on the 60D's frame rate.

This is kind of a flawed argument, as you are comparing the FF sensor of the 5D III to the APS-C sensor of the 70D. The 18 megapixels of the 70D are capable of resolving FAR more detail than the 5D III. The FF sensor has 6.25µm pixels, while the APS-C has 4.3µm pixels. The 70D has a 52% resolving power advantage over the 5D III!

Now, in some cases this doesn't matter. In some cases, the only thing that matters is total pixel count. These kinds of things would be landscapes, still life, portrait/wedding photography. Any time you can easily fill the frame with your subject and fully utilize ALL of the pixels a sensor has to offer, pixel size matters less, and if all you need is 18mp because all you do is print lower-resolution or upload downscaled versions to the web, then the 1D X sensor will serve you well.

On the other hand, any kind of photography where you need reach...sports, wildlife, birds, etc. Any kind of photography where the expectation is that you will be enlarging the results in print. Then the smallest pixels you can get away with, as well as having as many as you possibly can, DOES matter. At that point, 18mp, 22.3mp, hell even 36.3mp aren't really enough. You can always use more. In the case of needing reach, APS-C sensors with their higher pixel density have a lot to offer over a FF sensor.

TrumpetPower!

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 946
Re: A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #115 on: April 18, 2013, 05:06:00 PM »
Sounds pretty good, it's got everything you need in a mid range crop camera. Wonder how that SL1 sensor is doing so far?

18 megapixels is plenty. Glad they didn't add more. Seems like Canon are putting an end to the megapixel race - until they bring out the big megapixel camera (but that's a high end product for specialists).

Weather sealed? Wonder how much it will get compared to a 7D?

6.5 fps is respectable. I could live with that.

I never liked the 60D to be honest. I picked one up at a camera store, it didn't agree with me and from that point on I ignored it. The 7D was love at first sight! It's like it was custom made for me. A perfect fit.
Exactly! To be honest, I wouldn't mind if my 5D III was 18 MP (without hearing it would be 22.3).
And 6.5 fps is a big improvement on the 60D's frame rate.

This is kind of a flawed argument, as you are comparing the FF sensor of the 5D III to the APS-C sensor of the 70D. The 18 megapixels of the 70D are capable of resolving FAR more detail than the 5D III. The FF sensor has 6.25µm pixels, while the APS-C has 4.3µm pixels. The 70D has a 52% resolving power advantage over the 5D III!

Now, in some cases this doesn't matter. In some cases, the only thing that matters is total pixel count. These kinds of things would be landscapes, still life, portrait/wedding photography. Any time you can easily fill the frame with your subject and fully utilize ALL of the pixels a sensor has to offer, pixel size matters less, and if all you need is 18mp because all you do is print lower-resolution or upload downscaled versions to the web, then the 1D X sensor will serve you well.

On the other hand, any kind of photography where you need reach...sports, wildlife, birds, etc. Any kind of photography where the expectation is that you will be enlarging the results in print. Then the smallest pixels you can get away with, as well as having as many as you possibly can, DOES matter. At that point, 18mp, 22.3mp, hell even 36.3mp aren't really enough. You can always use more. In the case of needing reach, APS-C sensors with their higher pixel density have a lot to offer over a FF sensor.

I'm sorry, but the notion that a high megapickle APS-C camer makes for a better sports camera than the 1DX is ludicrous. Image quality especially.

b&

TrumpetPower!

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 946
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #116 on: April 18, 2013, 06:37:09 PM »
obviously you get higher  image quality with more resolution. An APS camera with 24Mp pixels will always be an advantage for a nature photographer or sports photographer  to come closer  (have better reach with the same lens) as long as the signal level  and the  light is sufficient high  compared to 1dx 18 mp resolution and signal/noise level.

More resolution is always more resolution and  Its a question about light/ signal/noise and what the lens can resolve.

God damn, but that's got to be the most idiotic thing I've read all week.

I mean, really? You seriously think that the Nikon D3200, a 24 megapickle APS-C camera, is "obviously" a better camera than the 1DX?

Seriously?

And for sports photographers?

Please tell me that this is a joke or that I've somehow otherwise managed to misinterpret what you wrote.

In case you weren't aware, the 1DX actually has marginally better image quality than even the 5DIII. And, yes, the D800 as well. It positively mops the floor with anything APS-C, chews it up, spits it out, and laughs over its corpse.

Find me a Sports Illustrated photographer who could manage to not bust out laughing at the notion that she should scrap her 1DX for a D3200 just because it's got more megapickles and therefore is "obviously" superior, and I'll go out and buy a hat just so I can eat it.

Cheers,

b&

TrumpetPower!

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 946
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #117 on: April 18, 2013, 06:44:43 PM »
have you problem to understand what Im writing?

I sure hope so, because it sure seemed to me that you wrote that a 24 megapickle APS-C camera is "obviously" a superior sports camera to the 1DX.

If that's not what you intended to write, then perhaps you should add a bit of clarification.

b&

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #117 on: April 18, 2013, 06:44:43 PM »

TrumpetPower!

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 946
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #118 on: April 18, 2013, 07:55:30 PM »
no, read above. you are mixing up things and come to strange conclusions

You wrote -- and I quote:

Quote
An APS camera with 24Mp pixels will always be an advantage for a nature photographer or sports photographer  to come closer  (have better reach with the same lens) as long as the signal level  and the  light is sufficient high  compared to 1dx 18 mp resolution and signal/noise level.

There is no APS-C camera on the market, period, which can match the image quality of the 1DX. Period, full stop, end of story -- and that you think there's even a theoretical possibility that such might be the case...well, it just goes to show the success of the marketing departments in selling megapickles, and your gullibility in falling for it.

Any blather to the contrary about resolution this and DXO that is bullS___, pure and simple -- and the type of bullS___ that only comes from somebody so completely clueless about the matter as to never have actually touched a 1DX, let alone shot with one.

You can spout numbers all day long, but the fact of the matter remains that the images from the 1DX, even after cropping, are so far superior to those from any and all APS-C cameras that all you're doing is digging that hole for yourself even deeper.

...and, yes, that's a not-so-subtle hint that you might wish to refresh your knowledge about the First Rule of Holes before continuing this discussion.

Cheers,

b&

Zv

  • 1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1678
    • Zeeography (flickr)
Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #119 on: April 18, 2013, 09:49:19 PM »
It's simple physics. If you have 24 million pixels crammed on a aps-c sensor those pixel must be very small and therefore each pixel well will collect less light resulting in more noise. Sure it might be theoretically able to resolve more detail but in reality it wont as any detail will be smudged by noise as the processor is now making up values for the insufficient light. You can't add light that wasn't there to begin with. The 1DX will have the advantage as the pixels are larger, collect more light and the process produces a much more accurate image. In the real world this means better image quality and sharper images.

Move along nothing to see here!

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE* A Bit of EOS 70D Info [CR1-CR2]
« Reply #119 on: April 18, 2013, 09:49:19 PM »