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Author Topic: The Future of EOS M [CR1]  (Read 26091 times)

Marsu42

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2013, 04:22:35 AM »
I've been running the alpha for a while now and it still spilts vids into 4GB parts but i think thats a FAT thing isnt it? it does automatically restart so you get continuous video just in 4GB blocks.

No, it's a fat32 thing (fixed by formatting the card with the new exfat filesystem in windows, then you can dump 4g+ files on the card) *and* a firmware restriction to protect the "real" video cameras and for tax reasons in the european union. At least on my 60d, it stops at 4gb or 30min, whichever comes first.

How instantaneous is the new clip? Do you drop any frames between clips or can they be edited together seamlessly?

You definitely loose frames, how much may depend on the camera model - it's like having the software pressing the "record" button as fast as it can. Any you always *could* just try ml yourself and then see :-p
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 04:27:05 AM by Marsu42 »

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2013, 04:22:35 AM »

Sella174

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2013, 09:54:57 AM »
The future of EOS M ... none.

In my opinion Canon should (a) chuck the EF-M system, (b) join the m4/3 consortium, and (c) make a functional EF-to-m43 translation adapter.
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Hobby Shooter

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #77 on: April 30, 2013, 10:12:46 AM »
The future of EOS M ... none.

In my opinion Canon should (a) chuck the EF-M system, (b) join the m4/3 consortium, and (c) make a functional EF-to-m43 translation adapter.
You'd think that until they own the market in two years.

Sella174

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #78 on: April 30, 2013, 10:22:10 AM »
You'd think that until they own the market in two years.

Which market? Mirrorless as a whole, or just m4/3?
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Hobby Shooter

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #79 on: April 30, 2013, 10:30:56 AM »
You'd think that until they own the market in two years.

Which market? Mirrorless as a whole, or just m4/3?

  ;D

Bob Howland

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #80 on: April 30, 2013, 12:20:28 PM »
The future of EOS M ... none.

In my opinion Canon should (a) chuck the EF-M system, (b) join the m4/3 consortium, and (c) make a functional EF-to-m43 translation adapter.

Huh?? Doing that makes no sense at all. It would put them at the mercy of Olympus and Panasonic, mostly Olympus. Canon would still have to introduce lenses, although maybe (repeat: maybe!!) not as many as with the EF-M system. Canon 4/3 camera owners might buy other manufacturers' lenses instead and Canon would have to guarantee that Canon bodies work with their lenses and their bodies work with Canon lenses. What a mess!

Better for Canon to introduce (1) better EF-M bodies, (2) some very small native lenses, perhaps eight total, and (3) an extremely high quality EF-to-EF-M Metabones Speed Booster-type adapter, except with a 1-1/3 stop improvement.

I own a G10. I want one part of the EF-M system to evolve into something the same size (or slightly larger) but with much better high ISO image quality.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 12:25:52 PM by Bob Howland »

paul13walnut5

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: April 30, 2013, 12:33:16 PM »
My 2 cents.

If canon can nail the Af issue, even if it means reverting to contrast detection only, then they are onto a winner.

They have a market of EF-s and EF users with lenses waiting to be used, a nice solid camera which has the concessions folk already live with when using most compact or compact system type cameras.

I don't see the point of a whole new line of EF-M lenses.  ALL CSCs are bulky when they have anything other than a pancake on them, so just go with it.  It makes sense to have the 18-55 M as it's most folks walkabout lens.  Other than that if you want good reach and a big sensor you need a big camera.  When you want a discreet compact camera use the pancake lens.

In the mean time canon could make the pancake lens a real winner by introducing, via firmware, a zone or hyperfocal mode for the pancake.  Say 1.5m to infinity at something like f8.  No need for slow AF.  Just point and shoot and everything in range will be reasonably sharp.  It would be a perfect street shooter.

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: April 30, 2013, 12:33:16 PM »

ecka

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2013, 02:47:48 PM »
My 2 cents.

If canon can nail the Af issue, even if it means reverting to contrast detection only, then they are onto a winner.

They have a market of EF-s and EF users with lenses waiting to be used, a nice solid camera which has the concessions folk already live with when using most compact or compact system type cameras.

I don't see the point of a whole new line of EF-M lenses.  ALL CSCs are bulky when they have anything other than a pancake on them, so just go with it.  It makes sense to have the 18-55 M as it's most folks walkabout lens.  Other than that if you want good reach and a big sensor you need a big camera.  When you want a discreet compact camera use the pancake lens.

In the mean time canon could make the pancake lens a real winner by introducing, via firmware, a zone or hyperfocal mode for the pancake.  Say 1.5m to infinity at something like f8.  No need for slow AF.  Just point and shoot and everything in range will be reasonably sharp.  It would be a perfect street shooter.

+1

I hear a lot of people choosing 100D/SL1 over EOS-M, for different reasons (better grip, better AF, pop-up flash, viewfinder, longer battery life, etc).
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pj1974

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #83 on: May 06, 2013, 02:25:50 AM »
On the weekend (here in Australia, it's Monday afternoon already) - I went to my local dedicated photography store, and handled the EOS M. I was impressed with the small size with the 22mm f/2.8 lens attached (that lens is really small).

The EOS M and 22mm lens is definitely of the 'slip inside a handbag / manbag' size.  The build quality and weight spoke of quite decent materials being used.

However the AF was really very slow. In a fairly well lit store, it didn't appear much quicker than my 7D's "Live View" AF (which I consider impractically slow apart from tripod landscape work). I haven't used a P&S in quite a while (occasionally tourists will ask me to take a photo with their P&S along a beach, etc).  So I can't really compare to 'average' P&S cameras of todau - as the last time I owned and used my P&S was about 8 years ago.

The salesperson at the store shared that yes, the EOS M had not sold well at all. In fact she said that only a very few people after trying it in store felt it was the camera for them. Who tried the EOS M eventually either purchased an entry level DSLR or a decent P&S, and most were not happy with the AF (for the price / potential).

This is understandable, and I wouldn't buy the current EOS M - mainly due to what you get for the price, compared to a good P&S or even moreso an entry level DSLR. (The saleswoman also indicated she thought it was silly having the small EOS M mounted behind huge EF lenses - I agree). Not user friendly in that case.

I do think if 2 things could be improved upon, the EO SM camera would have more potential:
- the AF to have quick snappy acquisition and very accurate focus
- there to be more (specifically small size) high quality lenses.

Let's see the future... your call, Canon!

Paul
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Marsu42

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: May 06, 2013, 04:45:38 AM »
However the AF was really very slow. In a fairly well lit store, it didn't appear much quicker than my 7D's "Live View" AF (which I consider impractically slow apart from tripod landscape work).

I'd really like some inside information why Canon thought they could get away with this. The speed of the 7d/60d-style live view af is a joke and really only for tripod work (though I like Magic Lantern focus peaking better), but if the eos m is not much better Canon seems to have skipped all field tests or they have beta testers who say "yes, great" to everything?

Or maybe the eos m is just a test model for mirrorless (just like Win8 for MS' new ui) and was scheduled to be replaced in no time anyway? In the latter case, that doesn't build trust in Canon as a premium brand.

paul13walnut5

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #85 on: May 06, 2013, 04:49:31 AM »
I tried an m instore.  But I didn't just pick it up, point and shoot.

I went into the menus snd tinkered.

Single point select.

Continuous af off.

Af+mf on.

Selected centre of screen as active af cell.

Point focus lock recompose.  I'd say about as fast as my 600d.

In reflex pd mode that is.  Not live view.

So that's fairly fast.

Here's my take:

For the folk who don't understand af, or who are scared to tinker thete is an easy user friendly accurate fairly intelligent but fairly pedestrian 'hey let me do all the work for you mode'

As you would expect given the likely target market.

But if you tinker a bit and narrow down the choices the camera has to make then it's actually a snappy wee system, not a sports camera, but fast enough for everything else and fast enough for enthuiasts, a wedding b camera etc.

I'm not a huge fan of AF, perhaps coning from a video background I understand better it's limitations.  Where I use af with success i've spent time cracking the manual.  Folk knocked the ecf on the 3: I thought it the best thing since sliced bread, folk knocked the af on 7d, i'm fairly confident most of those knocking didn't understand all the options.

I think most folk knocking the m af are using it in granny mode right out the box.

I'm very particular about af, suspicious of it almost.  If you grab the m by the scruff if the neck and tell it exactly what you want from it, it will obey.  But i'll still use my 7d for very fast sports.

The lack of remote socket and live view tethering are a little bit of a let down (could be the perfect timelapse camera otherwise) but otherwise my brief experience doesn't tally with the negative reviews.

I'm really getting very excited about the ding dong from dhl.  More than I can recall for any other camera I've ever owned, since except maybe my zenit horizon!


expatinasia

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #86 on: May 06, 2013, 05:47:57 AM »
I think most folk knocking the m af are using it in granny mode right out the box.

I stood behind a professional photographer friend at a sporting event not that long ago, and in a break he got out the M and started messing with it (and all its settings) for about 20 minutes, trying to get it to focus on people walking, and on some static objects. He was using a 400 f/2.8 ii with it and is no spring chicken, so he knows what he is doing, and I see him quite often as some of the things we cover seem to overlap.

The AF was laughably slow, it hunted and hunted. You almost have sufficient time to go and make a cup of tea, and by the time you get back it will hopefully have locked. There were times when you thought it had a lock, and then the camera suddenly changed its mind and went off hunting again.

Not saying this to knock your purchase, but when there are so many people talking about the AF system on reviews, and in other places, then you there really has to be an issue somewhere. You know what they say about no smoke without fire.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 05:58:41 AM by expatinasia »
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paul13walnut5

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: May 06, 2013, 06:41:06 AM »
I would be interested to see what settings your pro friend was using.  Did he have the manual to hand?

I have to confess I've tried it with an STM lens, not via the EF-M adaptor, and I really found it to work pretty well.

I'll be using mine exlusively with the 22mm STM with AF, and via the EF-M adaptor in MF mode.

The horror stories just didn't tally with my experience so far.
Much the same way as the horror stories about 7D image noise and AF problems don't tally.
I am a RTFM kind of guy.  I don;t work that well straight out of bed and so I don't expect complex electronic devices to work straight out the box the way I want.

I am a bit of an odd-bodd in that I don't entirely trust AF for anything, and that I was using an SR-T303 along side my digital gear until around 5 years ago, and that my main work camera doesn;t even have an AF mode, but the M seemed on a par with what I would expect, given segment, price, likely aspirations of user - once I had tinkered.  It's not going to replace a 7D, 5D3 or 1DX for speed, but then it isn't meant to.
And not to knock your professional friend with his 400mm f2.8, but I don't think it's the kind of lens Canon designed the M for.


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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: May 06, 2013, 06:41:06 AM »

expatinasia

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #88 on: May 06, 2013, 07:12:36 AM »
Did he have the manual to hand?

I can't remember whether he had the manual, I just remember the hunting (which was why he kept changing the settings to try and get it to stay locked). I also asked him about it recently, but can't remember what he said either (must be getting old, that's an awful lot I can't remember! Worrying really! :-) ).

And not to knock your professional friend with his 400mm f2.8, but I don't think it's the kind of lens Canon designed the M for.

I agree, and I do not think I was the only one that told him it looked stupid. :D

But what one person experiences does not mean that you will have the same concerns, so I wish you well with your M.
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Hobby Shooter

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: May 06, 2013, 07:55:07 AM »
Did he have the manual to hand?

I can't remember whether he had the manual, I just remember the hunting (which was why he kept changing the settings to try and get it to stay locked). I also asked him about it recently, but can't remember what he said either (must be getting old, that's an awful lot I can't remember! Worrying really! :-) ).

And not to knock your professional friend with his 400mm f2.8, but I don't think it's the kind of lens Canon designed the M for.

I agree, and I do not think I was the only one that told him it looked stupid. :D

But what one person experiences does not mean that you will have the same concerns, so I wish you well with your M.

As Paul says, it's unlikely the EOS M wasn't really designed for the 400mm although it can be fitted to it with the adaptor. There has to be a reason the 1Dx has the extra power compared to even the 5D3. What I understand, it doesn't only help increase the fps it also helps focusing faster. So, the EOS M isn't likely to have that extra power to drive its motor very quickly. I have used a (borrowed) M now a couple of days with the 22mm and that touch screen focus and obviously it isn't fast, but not as bad as I expected. It's all about having a balanced system and have the right expectations.

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Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: May 06, 2013, 07:55:07 AM »