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Author Topic: Scanners  (Read 2183 times)

EOBeav

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Scanners
« on: April 29, 2013, 04:42:59 PM »
So having shot digital for the last six years or so, I've decided to take a leap into the world of film photography. I know that many of you got your start in that medium. I picked up a Canon Elan 7 and loaded it with a roll of Ilford FP4. I sent the film out for developing/scanning, which ran me about $25 for everything (not including the roll of film to begin with.)  I can see that if I do this every 36 frames, I'm going to go broke in a hurry. I'd like to start developing my own film and then scanning to digital. I see a lot of different scanners on the market, so I'm looking for some recommendations/advice on getting a film negative scanner:  Brands, off-brands, resolution, etc...

Thanks in advance for your helpful input. I'll post a scan or two when I get this first roll back in a few days.
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Scanners
« on: April 29, 2013, 04:42:59 PM »

Canon-F1

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 05:59:54 PM »
there is not really much choice anymore if you want a good scanner.
many companys who have produced scanner in the past are gone or have stopped producing scanners.

flatbed.... epson v700 or v750 comes to my mind.

you want to develop BW film and scan these or scan negatives?

i once had a nikon coolscan 5000 for negatives.
i am not really up to date anymore but i heard it´s still hard if not impossible to beat.
thought they are not produced anymore, but you can find them on ebay.

sure they are pricey.. but you want good scans.. right?

most flatbed scanners, except for the top of the line models like the V700, are not good for scanning slides or negatives. in my opinion at least.
but as always it depends on the standards you set.

i sure would stay away from 200 euro flatbed scanner for scanning negatives or slides.

if i had to buy a scanner today i would buy the epson V700 or V750.

if the v700 is to expensive, the V600.
but it´s film scanning is not as good.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 06:41:52 PM by Canon-F1 »

Mr Bean

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 06:29:21 PM »
I noticed these in a local store the other day. Not sure how good they are:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/883631-REG/Plustek_783064365338_OpticFilm_8200i_Ai_Film.html

or the cheaper model:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894381-REG/Plustek_783064365321_OpticFilm_8100_Film_Scanner.html

I'm tempted to get one myself, as I have 1,000's of slides to process, when I have the time ;)
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Re: Scanners
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 06:34:02 PM »
I noticed these in a local store the other day. Not sure how good they are:
[

they are identical to the older 7600 models, just the software has changed.

it´s slow and IQ is not that good.
it only reaches half the resolution it claims to have.

you have to scan at the very slow 7200ppi mode to get roughly 3500ppi.
and slow means 10+ minutes!

at maximum quality, with dust removal, you are happy to scan 5 pics per hour!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 06:39:06 PM by Canon-F1 »

Mr Bean

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 06:36:38 PM »
I noticed these in a local store the other day. Not sure how good they are:
[

they are identical to the older 7600 models, just the software has changed.

it´s slow and IQ is not that good.
it only reaches half the resolution it claims to have.
Ah, okay. Thanks for the tip  :)
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Dantana

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 06:51:37 PM »
One thing to consider is to go completely the other route and pick up a used darkroom setup on CL or somewhere similar. I've seen whole kits of very good equipment available locally for very reasonable prices.

I know this brings up details of space, etc., but I bring it up because there is something magical and almost zen-like in the process of printing your own photos the old fashioned way. I enjoyed my darkroom time almost as much as the time spent shooting. I ditched my gear two house moves ago, and I still regret it. It's something that I really miss and I'm trying to figure out a location in my condo that I can setup a small rig again. The smell of fix still brings back memories.

Don't get me wrong, Photoshop and Lightroom are great tools, but it's a completely different experience.
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dr croubie

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 07:34:27 PM »
For scanning, I just went the v750, you can't beat it, I paid €550 shipped from EU to AU.
135 (35mm) is OK in the supplied film holders, but their height isn't very well adjustable, a good roll of Velvia 50 or Delta 100 Pro can get you scan about 10MP equivalent quality. And forget it for 120, I had the weird phenomenon where the centre of the frame was softer than the edges, because the centre of the film was sagging. Get a Betterscanning holder with the wet/dry glass and dry-mount, the resolution increase from the height-adjustable mount is enormous, probably up to 15-18MP in 35mm.
Then i decided even that isn't good enough, so i'm going for a Wet Mounting kit, should get about 20-25MP from a good 35mm negative, >50MP for a good 645. Try Aztek only if you're in the US, no overseas shipping. Or they buy it from Kami if you're in the EU. If you're neither, you're stuffed. I ended up with Lumina fluid from canada. It's not explosively flammable like Kami, so they can ship it overseas.

For processing, I've also just started getting into that (ordered and waiting for the tank to get delivered atm). I've joined the forums at www.apug.org to get advice on what chemicals and such. It really really depends on what you shoot with what film. I'm going to try starting with Diafine for my pushed-2-stops high-iso high-contrast spotlights-on-a-dark-stage shots, because that's pretty much what diafine was built for. For my low-iso tiny-grain efke-25, PanF50, Delta100Pro, I haven't decided yet. Was leaning towards xtol but maybe microphen (or even rodinol, although probably not because I likes my shadow detail).
For a tank i got the Paterson 3 Reel tank, specifically because when I get my new Travelwide 4x5 cameras, I can then get a MOD54 to process my own 4x5s.

nb: It's easy to get carried away with all of this. I've just talked about nearly $2000 worth of gear right there, if you include $250 for the two travelwides shipped and €400 for a super angulon 90/8 and 65/8 shipped. Once I start scanning 4x5s I'm going to need a few new HDDs if I ever scan them to 1-200MP+. And that's before chemicals and films. And to think I originally bought back into film just after the 5D3 was announced, because I figured it would take a lot of rolls of film plus a $200 EOS 3 to make up to $3500 worth of digital camera... (still, the enjoyment of experimenting and the fun of using film is worth a lot more than boring (to me) sitting processing 100 raw files.)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 07:37:22 PM by dr croubie »
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Re: Scanners
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 07:34:27 PM »

Hillsilly

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 09:03:50 PM »
I'd also suggest the v700 or v750.  But keep your eye open for a good deal on a used, high quality, dedicated film scanner.  Recent Nikons are well regarded.

I use a Canon 9950F myself, but have recently discovered it doesn't work with Windows 8.  That doesn't bode well for its long term viability.  Anecdotally, scanner drivers don't seem to get updated regularly.  (Although, there is extra software around, like vuescan, that can extend the useful life of scanners).

If you go used, make sure it has some sort of dust removal feature.  Canon call this FARE.  Epson call it Digital ICE.

Don't get too stressed about resolution, D-Max or other metrics.  These figures are usually made up, anyway.  Read some real world reviews, instead.
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bycostello

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2013, 07:07:42 PM »
why shoot film if you want to convert it to digital?

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2013, 07:16:20 PM »
Epson V750 is what I use. Its fantastic, you can use a wet scan and adjust the height of the scanning lens for optimum details in your scans.

dr croubie

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2013, 07:36:02 PM »
why shoot film if you want to convert it to digital?

Why not?
Art is art and reproduction is reproduction, both have their place but they're rarely the same.
I shoot film because it's more fun, I get better IQ from scanning a 645 or 6x6 than from my 7D (and a decent MF film body and lens is half the price of a 7D body no lens).
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Re: Scanners
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 07:57:26 PM »
why shoot film if you want to convert it to digital?

Why not?
Art is art and reproduction is reproduction, both have their place but they're rarely the same.
I shoot film because it's more fun, I get better IQ from scanning a 645 or 6x6 than from my 7D (and a decent MF film body and lens is half the price of a 7D body no lens).

but do you need better iq... sure some people do, but its not many that actually need it

dr croubie

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2013, 08:21:58 PM »
why shoot film if you want to convert it to digital?

Why not?
Art is art and reproduction is reproduction, both have their place but they're rarely the same.
I shoot film because it's more fun, I get better IQ from scanning a 645 or 6x6 than from my 7D (and a decent MF film body and lens is half the price of a 7D body no lens).

but do you need better iq... sure some people do, but its not many that actually need it

Of course I don't. Doesn't mean I can't want it though...
(although, to that end i've just bought an Epson R3000 13" wide printer, one of these days I'll print a few 13x19s shot on MF and see if i can flog them off)
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Re: Scanners
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2013, 08:21:58 PM »

Superka

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2013, 08:47:32 PM »
DO NOT buy any flatbad scanner, if you want to see the best film can (and it really can!). There is only few good scanners which you should look at (my advice). For 24x36 it is Monolta Scan Elite 5400 II, and another is Nikon 5000 of course. Unfortunately they do not scan 24x56 or 24x65mm.
If you want to try Medium Format, up to 6x9sm, then Nikon 9000 or older 8000 (though it slow) are the best. Also suitable for any 135 film frame sizes.  But there are alternatives - Minolta Multi Pro is one of them (with Scanhanser).
If you want to go panoramic 6x17sm then again - Nikon 9000+Vuescan+Stitching, or Imacon Flextight series scanners. Imacons are very good scanners, with perfect software. They are very convinient to use can deal with any film size.

See some information here http://www.filmscanner.info/en/FilmscannerTestberichte.html

Note, that scanners with diffuse light source are preferable, because show much less of film grain.

I personally is film-shooter and I love film. I have switched from digital in 2008 year. Lots of my friends also did this. Good Luck to you!  ::)

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« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 09:05:31 PM by Superka »

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 09:57:44 PM »
I have an Epson V700 and a Nikon 9000. Frankly, the V700 is worthless for film. But I suppose if you never saw a Nikon 8000 or 9000 scan side by side with a V700, you could be satisfied with the V700 output. Used Nikon scanners can be had on eBay; in the case of the 9000 for over a thousand more than I paid for it new in 2004. They run about $3000 used. $4000+ NIB. The 5000s run around $1750. (The 8000 and 9000 series scan 2.25" wide film as well as 35mm; the 4000 and 5000 scan 35mm only.) If you're shooting medium format, you'll want the glass carrier as well. That runs about $350-400. The biggest problem you'll run into is the lack of drivers for current operating systems. If you're running XP you can probably get the old NikonScan driver to work. Anything newer, and you're using VueScan, a remarkable piece of software that is loved by some and hated by many. If you learn to use it correctly, you can get some great results. Don't bother with SilverFast. Also, the 9000 is Firewire only. I think the 5000 is USB.

Be prepared, however; when you put a digital capture on the screen beside even a Nikon 5000 or 9000 scan, you're in for a rude awakening. A frame from a 5D III will blow the best Nikon scan out of the water, and make the V700 scans look positively sick. No amount of wet mounting will fix the inherent problems of using a flatbed for film. But, if it suits you, the price is definitely right. You could always pay to get better quality scans of the keepers later. Also, be advised; scanning film is mind-numbingly boring. Like darkroom work, you spend the majority of your time battling dust.

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Re: Scanners
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 09:57:44 PM »