September 02, 2014, 04:05:04 AM

Author Topic: Help newb with selection  (Read 4194 times)

K-amps

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1513
  • Whatever looks great !
    • View Profile
Help newb with selection
« on: August 08, 2011, 05:42:33 PM »
Hello everyone,

Its my first post... I hope people here smarter than myself can help me out.

I currently own a Rebel XT (EOS350d) and a 1d Mk.II (The lenses I have are the 18-55mm, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm) and primarily I take landscapes pictures.

I think I need a new Camera Body.

I am into HDR photography and trying to learn as much as I can. I am not too picky on camera bodies but do have the following needs of what my Camera should do: My next camera should have:

1.   10+mp
2.   Able to shoot AEB up to 7 or 9 frames
3.   Have good in camera Jpeg conversion
4.   6+ FPS
5.   Great Low light (ISO) performance

Would like to have the following but not necessary:

1.   Ability to shoot 16:9 stills (Nice to have)
2.   Ability to shoot 1080x1920 (nice to have)
3.   Full frame sensor

Since I am a hobbyist, the EOS 350d worked fine for me till I began HDR photography. Then I needed more AEB’s without messing with multiple settings / EV compensation settings. So for the price range I had in mind, a nice used 1D Mk.II, fit the bill with a DR of +/-18EV’s it is good from the AEB perspective. However the jpegs it renders are rather low quality. Infact the T1i renders jpegs so much better than the 1D Mk. II . With the Mk.II,  I have to use the RAW’s and manually expose each one and then take the 7 exposures to make an HDR… it’s rather laborious, and something I would reserve for the very best snaps. If you think I take 7 frames for every picture, you will see why I need good jpeg rendition from the Camera.

I have about $1200 for a new or used Camera (would prefer canon since I have some lenses but this is not mandatory) but can go upto $2000.

What camera can I get that fulfills the above requirements including the ability to bracket 7 frames in AEB.

I am considering using Magic lantern with my 350d or some kind of promote remote set up, but I am no pro and would like my Camera to do these things.

What would you guys do if you were in my place/ what Camera would you get.

Is there something new (I like the 7D) coming that has more than 5 AEB’s?

Thanks,
K-amps
EOS-5D Mk.iii 
Sigma 24-105mm F4 ART; EF 70-200 F/2.8L Mk.II; EF 85mm L F/1.2 Mk. II; EF 100mm L F/2.8 IS Macro, 50mm F/1.8ii;  TC's 2x Mk.iii; 1.4x Mk.iii

canon rumors FORUM

Help newb with selection
« on: August 08, 2011, 05:42:33 PM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14034
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 07:27:57 PM »
What would you guys do if you were in my place/ what Camera would you get.

Is there something new (I like the 7D) coming that has more than 5 AEB’s?

No one knows with any degree of certainty what's coming next from Canon.  I can tell you that in all current dSLR bodies, the only bodies that offer more than 3 frames of AEB are the 1-series bodies.  HDR is getting more popular, so much that Canon is including it as a picture style on newer bodies (even my S95 can do it, but across the board they're 3-shot JPG blends).  So, if you're looking for a body with 7+ frames of AEB as an absolute requirement, a Canon body will cost you a lot of money. 

What would I do?  I'd shoot them manual.  I do that now.  If you don't want to do that, well...you don't have much invested in lenses.  Consider the Nikon D700, which is equivalent to the Canon 5DII (and a new version of the D700 is rumored for an Aug 24 announcement).  The D700 can do up to 9 shots of AEB.

There are other brands, too.  Check out this reasonably comprehensive list of AEB capabilities across various makes/models.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 07:32:22 PM by neuroanatomist »
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

pinnaclephotography

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
    • PinnaclePhotography
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 08:48:41 PM »
From your criteria, it sounds like you want a 1D/1Ds body with a prosumer price tag.  Depending on what criteria you are willing to compromise on, it seems to me that a 7D is the closest option.

Realistically, I think you are asking for a camera to do too much.  I concur with neuroanatomist that shooting manual is a better route.  While it is nice to have things automated in camera, you would probably grow as a photographer if you elected to do more of the bracketing work yourself.  Sure, it takes more time, but as I said, it would probably make you a better photographer.  Doing everything yourself forces you to slow down and think critically about every step you need to take.

Wanting "good in camera Jpeg conversion" sets of warning sounds in my mind.  If you want better low light performance and good IQ you really should be shooting RAW.  Jpeg is a poor substitute.

To me, asking for a fast frame rate camera for HDR applications seems to indicate that you are just bursting exposures (which will often have alignment problems from subtle movement) when you really should take your time and shoot from a tripod (keeping the composition and perspective exactly the same for each shot.

Asking for a camera with a fast frame rate while staying in budget limits you to 7D/XXD territory.  If full frame is deemed more important than frame rates, a refurbished 5D mkII and the 5D classic are the ways to go.  Since you stated that your preferred budget was $1200, I think the 5D classic would be an excellent option with the caveat that you stick with manual bracketing like was mentioned above.  The 5D IQ is great, but you have to know what you are doing to get it reliably.  Here are a few couple carefully shot and processed photos from my 5D.  Strictly in terms of IQ, it is the best value camera out there, but it is slow and old with all the obvious limitations of such equipment (most notably the lack of sensor cleaning, live view, or a decent LCD).

Lower Lewis Falls by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

The Mountain by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

amongst the cedars by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

zoom zoom by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

Moonlit Pandora by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

So really, what it comes down to is do you want to use a DSLR like a point and shoot and have the important functions performed in camera, or do you want to slow down your workflow, shoot RAW, manually process everything...and so forth, for better results.

Mt Spokane Photography

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 8481
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 10:05:40 PM »
Hello everyone,

Its my first post... I hope people here smarter than myself can help me out.

I currently own a Rebel XT (EOS350d) and a 1d Mk.II (The lenses I have are the 18-55mm, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm) and primarily I take landscapes pictures.

I think I need a new Camera Body.
...........

K-amps

You might want to consider some upgraded lenses before getting a new body.  With higher end lenses, you can expand the capability of your existing cameras.  I would not get a new body and keep the old lenses, they are your weakest link right now.

You have a 1D MK II, for example, but no lens to show off its capability, and your Rebel would also benefit from better glass.  That early 18-55mm lens that came with the XT was not noted for its high IQ(I had one.).  The 28-135 is just OK, but not really excellent. 

On the positive side, your 50mm f/1.8 will do a 1st class job.

For a wide landscape lens that works on both, consider the new Sigma 12-24mm ($1000) that is just now available.   A Canon 17-40mmL is also within your budget, and is a step up, and reasonably wide on the 1D MK II.

For a longer lens, a 24-105mmL would dovetail nicely with the sigma wide zoom.

UncleFester

  • Guest
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2011, 02:00:07 AM »
Hello everyone,

Its my first post... I hope people here smarter than myself can help me out.

I currently own a Rebel XT (EOS350d) and a 1d Mk.II (The lenses I have are the 18-55mm, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm) and primarily I take landscapes pictures.

I think I need a new Camera Body.
...........

K-amps

You might want to consider some upgraded lenses before getting a new body.  With higher end lenses, you can expand the capability of your existing cameras.  I would not get a new body and keep the old lenses, they are your weakest link right now.




Mt Spokane hit the nail on the head.

Which leads me to think that you may be seeking HDR to resolve a quality issue when all you really need is a couple of good lenses, or at least a 17-40L.

K-amps

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1513
  • Whatever looks great !
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 10:40:48 AM »
Hi Guys:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It’s much appreciated. It’s interesting to see things form a different perspective. I feel I live on a different planet when I hear some of the suggestions, I mean that in a good way.

 :)

Let me explain:

•   I have not been too worried about quality even with the 350d (even though I will be soon in the future) ,  I can see how full frame bodies consistently produce cleaner output (of course the lens is a factor as you guys say) so while eventually when I learn enough about the basics, I would then want to invest in good glass. For now I feel I am more proficient (and comfortable) in digital processing. I thrive on the “artistic” aspects of HDR (please don’t hate me for it),  but am now getting to a stage where I want some quality yes, but my first impediment is workflow/ efficiency of shooting in the limited time I have.

•   I am a family man, have lots of kids and the family comes with me when we go hiking (primarily where and when I can take these nature shots). Often I find myself staying back and not keeping up with the family because I simply do not have the time to manually expose 100’s of shots. I want to fix this.

•   I do use a tripod, and since I am new to photography, I experiment a lot, i.e. take 400-900 shots in a 4-5 hour hike (most of them 7 AEB shots 7 jpegs and 7 raws so each shot for me is 14 files): I first try and HDR merge the jpegs since they are much faster to process and only reserve RAW processing for the one’s I like from the jpegs. Hence if I can get better jpegs, I can get a better idea of if a shot is worth it or not. The 1dmk.ii is fine for it’s AEB abilities but does not render jpegs well at all. Since both the 350d and 1dmk.ii are form 2004, they are beginning to show their age (jpeg conversion) when I compare them to entry level offerings like the T1i. This is one reason why I would like to get a new body.. That’s where my priority is currently (workflow induced perhaps).

•   While it does seem like I am asking for 1d level performance at a prosumer price, I do not feel I am asking that much since as I said, I’d be happy with a T2i as long as it could do 7AEB, I could even live with the 3.7fps, if it did 7AEB… and from what I have read, 7AEB is not a very expensive solution to implement, some guys say it’s merely a few lines of code in the firmware… so why does Canon make me pay 400% more for a Camera for few lines of code (I guess because they can).
 
•   This is where I was thinking of trying out the free magic Lantern firmware that has 5,7,9 AEB’s added to any canon camera… however I am still not comfortable hacking into my Camera hence have not tried it… But really Hope canon would add this feature.

•   Based on neuroanatomist’s suggestion, I think I can wait till Aug 24th for a new version of the D700 with 9AEB and full frame sensor or the D700 itself. And thank you for all the helpful information as well.

•   Posthumous, those picture are gorgeous by the way, Kudos!

Everyone else, thank you for your suggestions… I was just hoping that Canon is listening and adds more AEB options in it’s mainstream SLR’s.
EOS-5D Mk.iii 
Sigma 24-105mm F4 ART; EF 70-200 F/2.8L Mk.II; EF 85mm L F/1.2 Mk. II; EF 100mm L F/2.8 IS Macro, 50mm F/1.8ii;  TC's 2x Mk.iii; 1.4x Mk.iii

K-amps

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1513
  • Whatever looks great !
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 11:40:57 AM »
From your criteria, it sounds like you want a 1D/1Ds body with a prosumer price tag.  Depending on what criteria you are willing to compromise on, it seems to me that a 7D is the closest option.

Realistically, I think you are asking for a camera to do too much.  I concur with neuroanatomist that shooting manual is a better route.  While it is nice to have things automated in camera, you would probably grow as a photographer if you elected to do more of the bracketing work yourself.  Sure, it takes more time, but as I said, it would probably make you a better photographer.  Doing everything yourself forces you to slow down and think critically about every step you need to take.

Wanting "good in camera Jpeg conversion" sets of warning sounds in my mind.  If you want better low light performance and good IQ you really should be shooting RAW.  Jpeg is a poor substitute.

To me, asking for a fast frame rate camera for HDR applications seems to indicate that you are just bursting exposures (which will often have alignment problems from subtle movement) when you really should take your time and shoot from a tripod (keeping the composition and perspective exactly the same for each shot.

Asking for a camera with a fast frame rate while staying in budget limits you to 7D/XXD territory.  If full frame is deemed more important than frame rates, a refurbished 5D mkII and the 5D classic are the ways to go.  Since you stated that your preferred budget was $1200, I think the 5D classic would be an excellent option with the caveat that you stick with manual bracketing like was mentioned above.  The 5D IQ is great, but you have to know what you are doing to get it reliably.  Here are a few couple carefully shot and processed photos from my 5D.  Strictly in terms of IQ, it is the best value camera out there, but it is slow and old with all the obvious limitations of such equipment (most notably the lack of sensor cleaning, live view, or a decent LCD).

Lower Lewis Falls by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

The Mountain by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

amongst the cedars by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

zoom zoom by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

Moonlit Pandora by posthumus_cake (www.pinnaclephotography.net), on Flickr

So really, what it comes down to is do you want to use a DSLR like a point and shoot and have the important functions performed in camera, or do you want to slow down your workflow, shoot RAW, manually process everything...and so forth, for better results.

Great post!

I want to process raw when I find a good HDR contender. Not all of them look good post processing. I may process 9-10 sets and get 1 good looking HDR, or process 50-100 and get one really good one. (I am not there yet haha). But I need the jpegs to be at least half decent.

I do burst 7 fames and do use a tripod but still sometimes get burrly merges. I have now bought a remote and need to field test it. I have usually found 5d images to be spectacular!

By the way how do you clean your sensor? I can see speckles on mine when I take shots of the sky, otherwise looks clean. I have dry cleaned it, air brushed it and even used a q-tip but they are still there. (The lenses are clean).
EOS-5D Mk.iii 
Sigma 24-105mm F4 ART; EF 70-200 F/2.8L Mk.II; EF 85mm L F/1.2 Mk. II; EF 100mm L F/2.8 IS Macro, 50mm F/1.8ii;  TC's 2x Mk.iii; 1.4x Mk.iii

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 11:40:57 AM »

Edwin Herdman

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2011, 11:45:08 AM »
How often would you really need 7 or 9 frame AEB or in-camera HDR anyway?  Your results from just a trio, or even just a couple, of RAW frames carefully taken will be better.  Artifacts from movement in the scene (or shake-induced) will also necessarily be reduced as well.

K-amps

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1513
  • Whatever looks great !
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 12:33:37 PM »
How often would you really need 7 or 9 frame AEB or in-camera HDR anyway?  Your results from just a trio, or even just a couple, of RAW frames carefully taken will be better.  Artifacts from movement in the scene (or shake-induced) will also necessarily be reduced as well.

Don't we all yearn for that 1 spectacular shot? Out of the 100's we shoot  ;)
EOS-5D Mk.iii 
Sigma 24-105mm F4 ART; EF 70-200 F/2.8L Mk.II; EF 85mm L F/1.2 Mk. II; EF 100mm L F/2.8 IS Macro, 50mm F/1.8ii;  TC's 2x Mk.iii; 1.4x Mk.iii

UncleFester

  • Guest
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 04:32:35 PM »
How often would you really need 7 or 9 frame AEB or in-camera HDR anyway?  Your results from just a trio, or even just a couple, of RAW frames carefully taken will be better.  Artifacts from movement in the scene (or shake-induced) will also necessarily be reduced as well.

Don't we all yearn for that 1 spectacular shot? Out of the 100's we shoot  ;)

No. They all need to be spectacular.  ;)

K-amps

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1513
  • Whatever looks great !
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 05:05:20 PM »

No. They all need to be spectacular.  ;)


I am quite happy to live in a Digital world where mortals like myself have many chances to take shots and discard the ones we don't like.... If I had  teacher that told me that every shot had to be perfect, I would not have had the pleasure of joining this wonderful hobby...
EOS-5D Mk.iii 
Sigma 24-105mm F4 ART; EF 70-200 F/2.8L Mk.II; EF 85mm L F/1.2 Mk. II; EF 100mm L F/2.8 IS Macro, 50mm F/1.8ii;  TC's 2x Mk.iii; 1.4x Mk.iii

UncleFester

  • Guest
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 06:43:42 PM »

No. They all need to be spectacular.  ;)


I am quite happy to live in a Digital world where mortals like myself have many chances to take shots and discard the ones we don't like.... If I had  teacher that told me that every shot had to be perfect, I would not have had the pleasure of joining this wonderful hobby...


Well, how about just striving towards perfection and increasing your keepers? That can be quite rewarding and you'd still keep your mortality.

K-amps

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1513
  • Whatever looks great !
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 09:19:53 AM »
Uncle, I am striving on my own (more importantly at my own pace). 

I hope the new 6D has 7AEb and FF Sensor and below $2.5k retail ... THEN I will push myself to get good glass maybe.  :)
EOS-5D Mk.iii 
Sigma 24-105mm F4 ART; EF 70-200 F/2.8L Mk.II; EF 85mm L F/1.2 Mk. II; EF 100mm L F/2.8 IS Macro, 50mm F/1.8ii;  TC's 2x Mk.iii; 1.4x Mk.iii

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 09:19:53 AM »

K-amps

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1513
  • Whatever looks great !
    • View Profile
Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2011, 04:49:31 PM »
Guys...

It takes a lot to admit to one's failings, But I will do it today.

You guys were right...

Good glass makes all the difference.

Recently, I rented a 16-35L, a 100mm Macro USM and a 70-200 F2.8L.... Boy did these lenses blow me out of my mind. It opened a whole new world for me that never existed... It has taken me weeks to ponder over what glass I needed.... and while I still would like to keep dabbling with HDR once I have gotten used to good glass... it's so weird, I don't need to turn up the Unsharp mask anymore... I never thought I could live without it...

I has some spare cash ,  I hereby proudly announce that today I have purchased the following:

17-40L
100mm L Macro IS
70-200mm F/4 IS

I cannot wait to go home and try them out!!!!

Cheers... Will keep you guys updated.

best,
K-amps.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 11:39:04 PM by K-amps »
EOS-5D Mk.iii 
Sigma 24-105mm F4 ART; EF 70-200 F/2.8L Mk.II; EF 85mm L F/1.2 Mk. II; EF 100mm L F/2.8 IS Macro, 50mm F/1.8ii;  TC's 2x Mk.iii; 1.4x Mk.iii

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Help newb with selection
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2011, 04:49:31 PM »