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Author Topic: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]  (Read 60420 times)

jrista

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: May 08, 2013, 06:39:20 PM »
Give a cheap violin to a violin master and they will still make beautiful sounds with it. Give a Stradivarious to a begginer and the reverse will happen. It's not the camera but the photographer's skill and talent...

Give the cheap violin to the beginner and the output won't get worse. Give the Stradivarius to the master and the sounds will get significantly more beautiful.

Why is it so hard for people to grasp that while skill is the most important factor, the tools do matter.

I get so sick and tired of this "it's all the photographer and not any of the equipment" garbage too.  There's a reason that every SI shooter on NFL sidelines have a 1Dx and 400 f/2.8L II IS lens.  Because it matters.

There's also a reason I can do a heck of a lot more clean 8x10 printing NOW versus IN THE PAST for indoor sports.  It's because of my 1Dx and only because of my 1Dx.  The prints I'm doing now I just didn't do in the past because sensor was limiting with noise/IQ loss.

Is there something in my skill and technique that I was doing wrong before I bought my new camera that prevented me from doing so?  Sure, sports photography has been going on for a long time, it's just now with better equipment, it's better.

Totally agree, bdunbar. The problem is, people assume mutual exclusivity in those statements.

Its a simple logical fact:

"Give a skilled artisan a better tool, and they will produce better art."

That is NOT mutually exclusive with:

"Give a skilled artisan any tool, and they will produce good art."

BOTH of the above statements are true. Stating the second does not invalidate the first, nor does stating the first invalidate the second. They are non-exclusive, potentially simultaneous states that can exist concurrently.

Another way to put it:

"Give an unskilled artisan a better tool, and they will not produce art as good as a skilled artisan with the same tool. A better tool in the hands of a better artist will always result in better art over any other combination."

A skilled artist can create good art with any tool. Simple fact of the matter is, a better camera in the hands of a skilled photographer will allow that skilled photographer to make better art! The tool matters just as much as the photographer, and vice versa. There would be no photography without BOTH.
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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: May 08, 2013, 06:39:20 PM »

jrista

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #136 on: May 08, 2013, 06:42:29 PM »
Give a cheap violin to a violin master and they will still make beautiful sounds with it. Give a Stradivarious to a begginer and the reverse will happen. It's not the camera but the photographer's skill and talent...

Give the cheap violin to the beginner and the output won't get worse. Give the Stradivarius to the master and the sounds will get significantly more beautiful.

Why is it so hard for people to grasp that while skill is the most important factor, the tools do matter.

I get so sick and tired of this "it's all the photographer and not any of the equipment" garbage too.  There's a reason that every SI shooter on NFL sidelines have a 1Dx and 400 f/2.8L II IS lens.  Because it matters.

There's also a reason I can do a heck of a lot more clean 8x10 printing NOW versus IN THE PAST for indoor sports.  It's because of my 1Dx and only because of my 1Dx.  The prints I'm doing now I just didn't do in the past because sensor was limiting with noise/IQ loss.

Is there something in my skill and technique that I was doing wrong before I bought my new camera that prevented me from doing so?  Sure, sports photography has been going on for a long time, it's just now with better equipment, it's better.

do they, I have seen a lot of D4 and 200-400/4, nothing canon can show up yet
one reason that many shooters has gone to Nikon is 200-400/4 at ishochey, handbill  and soccer, soccer a  sport around the world who are many times  bigger than the american fotball where  some people running around in helmets and looking generally confused. The sport world is bigger than the U.S. and american football, its called soccer

Once again, and I mean ONCE AGAIN, you completely missed the point.  Who cares if it's Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, who cares?  You missed the bus.

I believe that is his (ankorwatt's/mikael's) permanent state: "Missing the point." Best not to try and convince him, your effectively trying to defy the universal laws of physics in the attempt.
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bdunbar79

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #137 on: May 08, 2013, 08:01:56 PM »
jrista,

There is definitely a lot of truth in what you say.
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dlleno

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #138 on: May 08, 2013, 10:35:56 PM »
The extra testosterone found in rugby players gives them 2 extra stops of dynamic range compared to American football players who,  by virtue of greater protection,  display more noise and banding.     This of course can only be  detected from the sidelines  with nikon equipment

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #139 on: May 08, 2013, 10:37:58 PM »
The sport world is bigger than the U.S. and american football, its called soccer
Ahem. Nowhere else than in the U.S. it is called soccer. The name of the game is "football". Pretty logical, as you play it with your feet... :)

logical except in US there they have a lot of protection and strange helmets and call it football, the original sport calls RUGBY from 1823 and are for real men and  they have no protection.

What's the difference between American football players running around looking confused with helmets on, and you sitting at your computer confused with a helmet on?
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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #140 on: May 08, 2013, 10:49:01 PM »
The sport world is bigger than the U.S. and american football, its called soccer
Ahem. Nowhere else than in the U.S. it is called soccer. The name of the game is "football". Pretty logical, as you play it with your feet... :)

logical except in US there they have a lot of protection and strange helmets and call it football, the original sport calls RUGBY from 1823 and are for real men and  they have no protection.

Here in Canada, we also call it Soccer.... so it's not just the U.S. that has the name wrong.... and I dare you to go tell the members of my NEICE'S rugby team that the game is for real men....

And the sport world is much larger than contact sports. Might I suggest you take up canoeing? A quiet lake, waterfowl and magnificent scenery..... sunsets and sunrises, an osprey or an eagle picking a fish off of the surface of the water, moose browsing in a marsh.... If there was ever a sport ideal for photographers, canoeing has to be it.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 10:55:03 PM by Don Haines »
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jrista

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: May 08, 2013, 10:58:13 PM »
The sport world is bigger than the U.S. and american football, its called soccer
Ahem. Nowhere else than in the U.S. it is called soccer. The name of the game is "football". Pretty logical, as you play it with your feet... :)

logical except in US there they have a lot of protection and strange helmets and call it football, the original sport calls RUGBY from 1823 and are for real men and  they have no protection.

Man, do you EVER just STOP? Seriously..."RUGBY...are for real men"?!?!?

I honestly can't think of a more pitiful, pointless, and useless statement (especially on these forums!) Men who think along those lines are the type of men who have to prove they are men, as a result of being insecure about it in one way or another, rather than simply being comfortable with the fact that they ARE men. Football, Rugby, Soccer...doesn't matter what the game is...all just a bunch of insecure, testosterone-driven men without any willpower trying to prove to the world through macho, brain-damaging insanity that they aren't the pathetic, insecure men they really, actually are. (Well, either that, or a combination of raging insecurity and an unsatiable greed for fame and money...either way...same ultimate outcome.)

Pathetic...honestly...new low even for you... Sometimes you just need to admit defeat man, and move on.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 11:00:26 PM by jrista »
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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: May 08, 2013, 10:58:13 PM »

yogi

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #142 on: May 09, 2013, 12:10:24 AM »
I didnt mean to put sports down. Mainly anchorwhat?   But i could say a few things about how the state of sports has become.  Didnt a teenager recently kill an umpire with a single punch? Adults need to act like adults, whether they are coaches, umpires, parents of athletes or spectators, and set an example for younger people.Of course this could be said about adults in general, not just sports. Should have said people of the USA, not Americans. America, after all,encompasses North,South, & Central America. And Jrista, I believe the macho attitude is common in many men, not just in the sports world, though maybe more obvious in athletes & fans, and like you, believe it can sometimes be a sign of immaturity. Didnt mean to rant, or did I? I blame Awott for instigating this rant and detracting from the subject of photography. But it is all fun to me,not to be taken too seriously :)

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #143 on: May 09, 2013, 12:39:11 AM »
And furthermore! Very funny Don Haines, bdunbar79,dlleno,jrista,CanNotYet. I love the humor & comments on this forum. Cant stay away :)

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #144 on: May 09, 2013, 12:40:54 AM »
Dammit, I came to this thread to read what people thought about this rumor and all I see is arguing about soccer and football and manliness. I must've forgot that I'm on the CR forums, where threads always go off-topic for a few pages.

I guess 7D owners can be happy about this rumor of no 7DII this year.


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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #145 on: May 09, 2013, 12:50:12 AM »
Dammit, I came to this thread to read what people thought about this rumor and all I see is arguing about soccer and football and manliness. I must've forgot that I'm on the CR forums, where threads always go off-topic for a few pages.

I guess 7D owners can be happy about this rumor of no 7DII this year.

There is a common denominator among threads here that run amok...   

yogi

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #146 on: May 09, 2013, 01:05:23 AM »
You left out rugby!bereninga :o
Dammit, I came to this thread to read what people thought about this rumor and all I see is arguing about soccer and football and manliness. I must've forgot that I'm on the CR forums, where threads always go off-topic for a few pages.

I guess 7D owners can be happy about this rumor of no 7DII this year.

There is a common denominator among threads here that run amok...   
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 01:07:38 AM by yogi »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: May 09, 2013, 01:16:48 AM »
The sport world is bigger than the U.S. and american football, its called soccer
Ahem. Nowhere else than in the U.S. it is called soccer. The name of the game is "football". Pretty logical, as you play it with your feet... :)

logical except in US there they have a lot of protection and strange helmets and call it football, the original sport calls RUGBY from 1823 and are for real men and  they have no protection.

Here in Canada, we also call it Soccer.... so it's not just the U.S. that has the name wrong.... and I dare you to go tell the members of my NEICE'S rugby team that the game is for real men....

And the sport world is much larger than contact sports. Might I suggest you take up canoeing? A quiet lake, waterfowl and magnificent scenery..... sunsets and sunrises, an osprey or an eagle picking a fish off of the surface of the water, moose browsing in a marsh.... If there was ever a sport ideal for photographers, canoeing has to be it.

And believe it or not it wasn't the U.S. that came up with the term it was.... Britain! They came up with the term "soccer" and now spend every waking minute blaming it on the U.S.  :'(.

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: May 09, 2013, 01:16:48 AM »

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #148 on: May 09, 2013, 01:20:06 AM »
^ ^

As we do with everything else !  ;)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: May 09, 2013, 01:22:52 AM »
Give a cheap violin to a violin master and they will still make beautiful sounds with it. Give a Stradivarious to a begginer and the reverse will happen. It's not the camera but the photographer's skill and talent...
I see so many invested photographers these days with all the pro kit and not a clue how to use it.

No it's:

Give a cheap violin to a Anne Sophie Mutter and she will still sound good.... but definitely not as fabulous and something will be missing a bit for sure.

If you were to steal a top violin player's instrument they would probably literally cry and then go all Taken on you: "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my Strad go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will...."

And there is a reason they would be like that.

Give a Strad or Guarn to a beginner and he might still not be terribly good but unless he is really, really poor or like in the first few weeks his tone may be a little better and if he is a skilled beginner he will sound noticeably better although he's not going to be able to sudden do anything a master can. I've personally tried crummy and excellent and I definitely sounded better with the top instrument, that said of course I didn't transform into Perlman.

For cameras give a sports pro a rebel and 70-300 IS and his take will instantly go considerable down.
Give a beginner a 1DX+ 300 2.8 and his take will instantly go up a good deal.
But the pro will still have the better overall take (unless he is a really crummy one and the beginner has mad talent).
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 01:30:44 AM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: No 7D Mark II in 2013? [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: May 09, 2013, 01:22:52 AM »