October 02, 2014, 12:47:24 AM

Author Topic: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)  (Read 15547 times)

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3323
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2013, 10:56:32 AM »
easy on the personal attacks,
"personal attacks"?  ??? ... relax a little and read my post again, there is no personal attack.  ::)
well if they're not a personal attack and that's your normal way of offering advice, critique or just passing comment then I hope you dont have your heart set on a career as a diplomat...
Fortunately my career does not require your "hope" ::)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 10:58:26 AM by Rienzphotoz »
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

canon rumors FORUM

Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2013, 10:56:32 AM »

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3323
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2013, 11:11:28 AM »
what basic rules of photography have i not applied? aside from the rule of thirds.
Here are some basics:
1. The time of day for landscape image (I live in Qatar, a country which has the exact same landscape as your image ... Minus the pyramids of course) ... for that landscape (or any for that matter) the best time is around sunrise or sunset. Don't get me wrong I've made plenty of images far worse than the one you posted here. After screwing up many images, I know a little more than before.
2. Knowing that heat waves in the air cause images to look flat.
3. Not trying bracketed shots for HDR
4. Not getting closer to the pyramids ... Of course this may not have been possible
5. Knowing cheaper filters cause such results (btw, I am an expert at not learning this lesson many times over)
Peace
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 11:20:12 AM by Rienzphotoz »
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

jimjamesjimmy

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2013, 12:00:44 PM »
1.the pyramids only open from 8am and shut at 4 or 5 , not great for the magic hours. and my trip dictated an early afternoon visit.

2. see above

3.i dont feel the need to bracket shots for hdr ( not my thing) , though i did take a variety of differently exposed images

4.i took lots of images of all the pyramids at different angles/distances. this is just one shot.

5. agreed.

i do not agree with the  castigation that i dont follow the rules of photography.  your points arnt photographic rules they are desirable situations.

MarkII

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2013, 12:10:50 PM »
Why do you think HDR would help? It doesn't look like an image that is suffering from burned highlights or shadows.

Also it is unclear to me what the OP is looking for. If it is not pixel-level sharp, then maybe heat-haze or the polariser are the problem. If it is just lacking a general 'pop', then I agree that earlier or later light may have helped by perhaps bringing out some more texture in the sand.

FWIW, I usually hate any new camera's output for the first few weeks. But it is almost always just a question of figuring out the lens/exposure/PP tweaks that give me the image style that I want. Mostly I find very little difference in image quality between crop and FF for images like the OP's (big DOF, low ISO... shallow DOF and high ISO are another matter, however).

Skirball

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #64 on: May 08, 2013, 12:33:10 PM »
what basic rules of photography have i not applied? aside from the rule of thirds.
Here are some basics:
1. The time of day for landscape image (I live in Qatar, a country which has the exact same landscape as your image ... Minus the pyramids of course) ... for that landscape (or any for that matter) the best time is around sunrise or sunset. Don't get me wrong I've made plenty of images far worse than the one you posted here. After screwing up many images, I know a little more than before.
2. Knowing that heat waves in the air cause images to look flat.
3. Not trying bracketed shots for HDR
4. Not getting closer to the pyramids ... Of course this may not have been possible
5. Knowing cheaper filters cause such results (btw, I am an expert at not learning this lesson many times over)
Peace

Heatwaves cause images to look flat?  I'd think it makes it soft.

And I'm going to have to disagree with the HDR statement.  It's great for expanding your dynamic range, but not so much for adding interest to uninteresting photos.  Well yeah, it was the first dozen times or so that I saw it, but that wore off.

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3323
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #65 on: May 08, 2013, 12:58:57 PM »
1.the pyramids only open from 8am and shut at 4 or 5 , not great for the magic hours. and my trip dictated an early afternoon visit.

2. see above

3.i dont feel the need to bracket shots for hdr ( not my thing) , though i did take a variety of differently exposed images

4.i took lots of images of all the pyramids at different angles/distances. this is just one shot.

5. agreed.

i do not agree with the  castigation that i dont follow the rules of photography.  your points arnt photographic rules they are desirable situations.
There is no "castigation", too bad you feel that way but that was not my intention and neither did I say that you "don't follow the rules of photography" ... I don't even know you so I can't make that assumption ... but I have said that, you did not follow the basic of photography for that images you posted. Basics of photography is not only just about rule of thirds, f-stops, shutter speeds etc.  Knowing the characteristics of your subject is part of the basics of photography. Agreed we have no control over many things, in this case the opening hours of the pyramids, but what is in our control is knowing the limitations of our tools and not being "disappointed" with those tools which cannot produce the results we want, in certain situations with out good quality accessories (in this case a good quality filter) believe it or not, knowing that is also part of basics of photography. ;) In the case of that image and with the tools you had and the situation you are dealt with, the only option I can think of is bracketing the shots for HDR ... that could have made the image a lot more colorful with a bit more pop.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 03:34:44 AM by Rienzphotoz »
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

Rockets95

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2013, 01:01:59 PM »
i did use a cokin CPL on a lot of these shots including this one.

I see...in that case, a little softness at f/10 (which should be quite sharp, otherwise) doesn't come as a surprise.

yep i think its inferior quality filter that might be the culprit try a high quality hoya or B+W

I concur. When I got my 70-200 I also bought a cokin circular polarizer for it. With it on, all shots were soft. With it off, they were sharp. I returned it. It cost me a week of fuzzy pictures to find it out.

I've used the Cokin P system with their split neutral density filter and feel the photos were "mushy" in the neutral density area of the photos. I quit using it. Your high quality FF sensor likey doesn't play nice with a low quality CPL.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 05:47:17 PM by Rockets95 »
7D, WFT-E5A, 70-200 F/2.8L IS II, 24-105 F/4.0L, 10-22 F/3.5-4.5, 580EX-II, Wife has: 5D2, 70-200 4.0L IS, 100 2.8L IS macro, 24-105 F/4.0L IS, 17-40 F/4.0L

canon rumors FORUM

Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2013, 01:01:59 PM »

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3323
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2013, 01:05:48 PM »
Why do you think HDR would help? It doesn't look like an image that is suffering from burned highlights or shadows.
HDR is not just limited for "burned highlights or shadows" ... I make images in the desert all the time with exactly the same kind of landscape as in the image posted by the OP (minus pyramids of course) ... tomorrow I'll post some images I've made to show what HDR can do in similar conditions (I'm not at home right now and do not have access to my external drive that has those pics).
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

MarkII

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2013, 01:52:56 PM »
If they are not burned, you can simply process a single RAW image. The only downside to this is noise/banding if you push shadows too much - though there aren't really many shadows to push in the OP's original image (which is possibly the main problem...).

Axilrod

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1373
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2013, 03:27:10 PM »
I wonder if the "waves" from the heat inbetween you and the pyramids is causing the lack of perceived sharpness.  I don't know the technical term, but you know in the summer when you look at the road or the hood of your car and it blurs everything?
5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

Skirball

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2013, 03:31:24 PM »
I wonder if the "waves" from the heat inbetween you and the pyramids is causing the lack of perceived sharpness.  I don't know the technical term, but you know in the summer when you look at the road or the hood of your car and it blurs everything?

It's from the refraction of light as it goes through air of varying density.  And I think it's a decent guess that the combo of that, and the apparently bad Cokin CPL, that caused the softness.  But the conversation seemed to move on from that into a chest thumping competition of the 'rules' of photography.

jimjamesjimmy

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2013, 03:52:34 PM »
I wonder if the "waves" from the heat inbetween you and the pyramids is causing the lack of perceived sharpness.  I don't know the technical term, but you know in the summer when you look at the road or the hood of your car and it blurs everything?

It's from the refraction of light as it goes through air of varying density.  And I think it's a decent guess that the combo of that, and the apparently bad Cokin CPL, that caused the softness.  But the conversation seemed to move on from that into a chest thumping competition of the 'rules' of photography.


im trying to bring it back, lol   i think wihtout uploading alot of different shots and comparing then to others of mine, i dont think i can get across my original point that the results i got from a 2 week holiday with my new 6d and fairly new lenses, to two interesting places were wholly dissapointing compared to previous exscursion on my 400d where i was happy with the results, forget the pyramid picture, that is just one photo from 1000!  i just thought the investment , though no way in making me a better photographer, would improve the quality of images overall by a degree or two. being full frame , new tech, better glass etc but in fact my photos seem to be worse!  less sharp focus, lots of off focus shots, i thought that centre point was meant to be good! i need to take lots more shots i guess.  any way im disheartened and confused.  i seriously miss my 400d and the nifty fifty!

im also paranoid that my lenses micro adjustments are off, and that my 6d is dodgy!  is it worth getting then once over, just for piece of mind?

points to be taken away,     get a better polariser/filters! if im serious about getting some good landscapes. be more aware of pollution and heat haze, compensate, i still would rather take a picture in these situations  than avoid taken one all together. but be more creative. also i should probably take every photo following the rule of thirds exactly, or maybe i should implament a golden ratio grid to my viewfinder ;)



Mika

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #72 on: May 08, 2013, 04:43:15 PM »
I'm a bit late from this bandwagon, but I'd also venture to guess it's the heat waves & sand in the air (seems a bit yellowish to me). Focusing through these is difficult to any AF-system, they cannot detect the presence of heat haze. The other possibility is a bad filter, try it out at home on mid day to see whether it degrades the image or not, I have had it happen to me with telephotos, but not with wide-angles. Your luck might be different.

I haven't figured a way of getting good landscape shots during mid-day, but that's my limitation, there's bound to be someone who can, but I'm not also a full time pro. I have climbed on top of a volcano to shoot about a hundred of photos there at the height of 3 kilometres, not realizing that the metering is different from sea-level due to 30 % more solar radiation and considerably less atmospheric haze - you can imagine the success rate... Should've brought CPL and a ND grad there, but that thought simply didn't cross my mind. But you learn something new every day.

I don't know, it's just a thought of mine, but occasionally it also pays off to exaggerate the natural phenomena. In your case, I don't know how it would have looked like if shot wide open and slightly closer to the camels so that they would be in focus and the background not. But then it wouldn't have been a landscape shot to begin with.

I wouldn't strictly adhere to rules of thirds, it's sorta saying that averagely stuff looks better if placed here, keyword being averagely. When on vacation and I was carrying a 28/1.8, I think I did have to apply a bit more contrast on the scenes to get them more to my liking compared to 85/1.8. But that's just a tad more, and I haven't tried 28/2.8 either.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #72 on: May 08, 2013, 04:43:15 PM »

risc32

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #73 on: May 08, 2013, 06:49:47 PM »
i see this thread has gone to looney town, i'm out.

myone

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #74 on: May 08, 2013, 07:22:22 PM »
Quote
i just thought the investment , though no way in making me a better photographer, would improve the quality of images overall by a degree or two. being full frame , new tech, better glass etc but in fact my photos seem to be worse!  less sharp focus, lots of off focus shots, i thought that centre point was meant to be good! i need to take lots more shots i guess.  any way im disheartened and confused.  i seriously miss my 400d and the nifty fifty!

This is exactly what happened to me when I switched from my reliable 40D to 5D3. I got so used to the images captured with the 40D and its editing styles that quite a number of the pics taken with the brand new 5D3 seem awkward. I was complaining about the colors, contrasts, this and that, and finally, I realized it was me. The high expectations from all the $ spent on a more updated and sophisticated body is the reason why - at least to me. I expected too much but soon learned the proper way to work around it.

Take some time to properly edit images takes with your new 6D, and after a while, go back to the photos captured with your 400D. Look at pictures taken at night and day, and I can bet you, you will like the pics from the 6D more.

OTOH, I find that HDR does have its advantages. I have taken a lot of dull landscape pics that were turned interesting with punches using HDR technique. Properly edit the stacked images using Photomatix or some sort, and finalize with Photoshop or Lightroom will definitely give you the images you like.
5D3 | EOS M | 24-70L | 24-105L | 35L | 17-40L | 60,2.8 | 430EXII | EF-M 22 pancake | EF-M 18-55

canon rumors FORUM

Re: dissapointed 6d 100mm f2 and 24mm 2.8 (non l)
« Reply #74 on: May 08, 2013, 07:22:22 PM »