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Author Topic: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software  (Read 59070 times)

CarlTN

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2013, 10:53:06 PM »
Its certainly good news for the competition.  Adobe has always been out of touch with their pricing.
Okay, one more thing. We can complain all we want on this forum, but please, also go to one or more of the public Facebook pages for Adobe, such as https://www.facebook.com/Photoshop?fref=ts and post a comment there.

Companies don't like public humiliation and in this era of the Internet and social media, it can be the most effective tool. Please, go post your opinion and urge others to do so as well.

+2!!

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2013, 10:53:06 PM »

Maui5150

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2013, 11:04:28 PM »
I GUARANTEE you, that as they add features or "upgrades" you can expect $75 - $100/ month for Creative Cloud.

Guarantee? That's pretty bold.  But ok, it is reasonable to expect that prices go up over time but if that's your assumption then the cost of one-time version upgrades would also go up.  At the end of the day the financial comparison is what you're paying now versus what you'll be under the new model.

If you're a PS only user your upgrade cost every two years was $300 (do I have that right or was it $200?) so your average monthly cost was $12.50 (more if an upgrade came out after 18 months).  Now you're paying $20 per month for PS... which is more and not insignificant but you're getting constant upgrades with new features instead of Adobe having to hold them back for a full new release, some cloud storage, and the right to install on two computers.  So there is extra value.  Whether those extras are worth an extra $7.50 per month to any particular user is hard to say.

EDIT... and there are reports they are planning to reduce the single app price to $10 per month.

Last upgrade was $199, and almost certain there was an early bird or sale at one point... Could have sworn I paid $149. 

The big difference is... Once I have paid, I get to use that software as long as my system runs.  I think my 4 year cost on Photoshop is in the neighborhood of $450.  I skipped one of the upgrades in there.  With the CC, that is looking like $960 outlay over 4 years if the $20/month sticks. 

But again... If I don't think the upgrade is worth it, I don't pay.  I can still use the software this year.  Next year, and with as cludgy as their install is, chances are even if I build a new machine, I can get it installed. 

That is also not to say as OS changes, you also don't pay for software you don't need.  Take Lightroom.  Many people still run Windows 98.  They don't need 7 and looksy, Lightroom 4 does not run on it. 

So for those running PS CS 6 on Windows 7 for example, 2 years from now whether it is Win 8 or what ever is next, if the PS CS 8 only runs on this new OS, you are stuck paying for a subscription for software you can't use, where the hard copy model, you save money.

Rent-Only software sucks!

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2013, 11:06:48 PM »
Currently living in Asia, you can pick up a DVD of almost any known software for a couple of dollars. I make a point of always buying legal licenses from the vendors no matter what it is. I don't see the value of Ms Office on my home PCs though so I have downloaded Open Office to all of them.  For editing I use LR and of course it's a legal copy.

My point here is that this will pi$$ people off even more than before seeing these companies making it more and expensive and difficult to stay legal Like someone said here also, who needs another monthly bill to look after? Better to just be able to buy it and forget about it.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2013, 11:07:06 PM »
People please!  You never owned software, what you always bought was a license with only a time limited assurance of support, bug fixes, etc.  Then you upgrade to the next version at semi-regular intervals and so it goes on for eternity.

No, I bought that software and I expect it to function as purchased FOREVER - on my stand-alone machine that has no connectivity to the outside world.

Support, bug fixes, etc. are options I can chose to forgo, or pay for, my choice.

The real problem is that when Adobe goes bankrupt in 5 years and the license servers go off line, every one of their subscribers is SOL.  It's happened before, it will happen again.

Which is why the cloud subscription model is a loser for anyone who cares about what they are using/doing/counting on.  A business person (eg: professional photographer) who uses Adobe is rolling the dice with their livelihood.  Bad move.  You're not a secured creditor, they owe you nothing when they fail, and your customers are not going to be amused when you tell them that all those photos you were going to have for them aren't going to show up.

Onward and upward?  More like downward to the netherworld.

Oh bollocks!

The software that you currently own WILL work forever on your machine.  No one is forcing you to upgrade to CC.

You want choice... that was part of my original point, people are resistant to change, don't like new models, demand choice, demand control over everything.

Adobe goes bankrupt?  It could, but you images are not lost, your RAW files are not lost.  You have to back them all up just like you do now.  No difference there.  Ok, so you Adobe software stops working after a while but even under the current perpetual license versions you'd eventually (and within a relatively short time) have to move to another product to stay current with features etc.   And besides, when companies fail they don't go poof in the middle of the night... you'd have some warning... you're not going to suddenly have to tell your customers their photos have been lost forever in a black hole.

Boy oh boy, THE SKY IS FALLING!

True, your raw images are still there.  And all the work you did that you saved as jpegs or tiffs are still there.  But your entire workflow, all the modifications you made, and which require their software to retrace and modify, are gone.

And no, you won't have any warning they are going away, unless you are an insider.  They DO go poof in the middle of the night.

Meaning that if you take your photography business seriously, you have to freeze your baseline right here, and can no longer rely on their products beyond where we are at.  So there will be no updates, no new RAW converters.  That is the fast track to the grave for Adobe.  Self fulfilling prophecy.

Although I imagine that most of the younger folks will be seduced by the latest and greatest.  Until they get burned, that is.  But then, I was in the personal computer industry back when the 8080 was the latest and greatest, and Bill Gates was still in knickers.  So I've already been burned, and won't trust any of these companies.

The Cloud - a mainframe (even if it is made up of distributed elements) by any other name is still something outside your control.  Do you really want to go back there?  What's next - punch cards?

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2013, 11:09:25 PM »
Rent-Only software sucks!

Yes, renting sucks...except that it doesn't, for the landlord.  When it comes right down to it, that's why this is happening.
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Meh

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2013, 11:18:05 PM »
And no, you won't have any warning they are going away, unless you are an insider.  They DO go poof in the middle of the night.

Outside of the financial industry, it is very rare that a major corporation suddenly and without warning shuts it doors and leaves all customers out in the cold.

Meaning that if you take your photography business seriously, you have to freeze your baseline right here, and can no longer rely on their products beyond where we are at.  So there will be no updates, no new RAW converters.  That is the fast track to the grave for Adobe.  Self fulfilling prophecy.

Although I imagine that most of the younger folks will be seduced by the latest and greatest.  Until they get burned, that is.  But then, I was in the personal computer industry back when the 8080 was the latest and greatest, and Bill Gates was still in knickers.  So I've already been burned, and won't trust any of these companies.

The Cloud - a mainframe (even if it is made up of distributed elements) by any other name is still something outside your control.  Do you really want to go back there?  What's next - punch cards?

Again, the falling sky will get us all.  Good grief.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2013, 11:22:52 PM »
on the current interview with Tom Hogerty via Engadget with Scott Kelby, where he mentions LR running on a tablet being in the works, I thought they mentioned a rental cost of 20 bucks per month for Photoshop - not sure if that included LR or not.

Given that an average Photoshop upgrade costs around 200 bucks / pounds, and comes out about every 18-24 months, then if they included LR into those costs, 20 dollars a month would not be completely out of sync, plus you get more regular updates on the programs.

Might not be soo bad if they can pitch the right pricing. Well, not too bad for anyone in North America :)

I think $20/month for LR+PS would be a fair price.  Even $30 for the entires suite is okay if it stayed there. 

My concern is price creep - $10 / month for 1 ap and then suddenly $20 or $25 / month.  $500 / year seems very steep for those of us who don't make a living using PS. they may turn off a number of people and get them to move to PSE and Aperature on the Mac.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2013, 11:22:52 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2013, 11:23:18 PM »
I was thinking the same thing as you above, about the Netflix comparison.  I wish I had owned their stock before they reported earnings a few days ago...it went up 25% in one day.  But then, that's because the stock's price was rigged by all the big time firms and insiders.  They deliberately hammered the stock ahead of time, so they could be long at a good price, in time for it's big "earnings surprise"...then they cash out.

Adobe may well be hurt by the cloud and subscription model.  Time will tell.  All I know is, I have all the photo software I need for now.  I just bought a new camera, and doubt I will replace it within 3 years.  And in that amount of time, who knows what will happen?

If Adobe's pricing strategy for a subscription service, means I have to pay $50 a month, if I make any money at all from photography if I use their software...there are certainly months where I would be losing money.  Seems that would definitely drive their customers away. 

A similar thing has happened with higher education.  You would think they're pricing themselves out of existence.  Except they aren't going away, they're here forever, no matter how much they raise tuition, or how corrupt their boards are!  The model is broken, the government is funding student loans with taxpayer "money"...which is really just adding to the deficit...and racking up more interest as it goes.  I guess the bureaucrats figure if the public is willing to let the US Post Office lose $11 billion annually, or however much it is now...and is willing to waste billions on "investment" in "renewable energy", such as Tesla Motors, and Fisker Automotive (now bankrupt)...and "First Solar"...and billion dollar windmills...and million dollar "junkets" to Las Vegas by government accounting offices...Then they must also think the public is more than happy to flush their children's and grandchildren's futures down the toilet, in order for them to go enjoy their young lives in blissful ignorance...partying away with reckless abandon, even at ivy league schools...all on your dime...or even penny...which is really their future negative dollar.  Then when it comes time for those kids to go to job interviews, they start texting during the interview.  Why?  Because you raised them to be that way!  You raised them to think they are the most important generation in the history of the world.  The opposite is closer to being accurate.  Then they have the nerve to go protest at a bank's front door...all while constantly texting on a smartphone whose maker is hording $140 billion in cash, overseas no less.

Meh

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2013, 11:25:56 PM »
Rent-Only software sucks!

Yes, renting sucks...except that it doesn't, for the landlord.  When it comes right down to it, that's why this is happening.

And like it or not, software subscription models are an inevitable outcome of the digital age because the systems are now available to make it work and it's a tool against piracy.  All we can hope for, which is no different than at any time, is that healthy competition keeps things in check.  If, as people are screaming, Adobe's pricing is crazy, insane, unreasonable, etc. then we should see some competition eventually.  Bring it on and let's see how good our tools can get.

CarlTN

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2013, 11:32:01 PM »
Maui, do people really still run Windows 98?

kirispupis

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2013, 11:33:30 PM »
What I really want to know from this is what is Adobe's guarantee for quality? Most of the major services have what is called an SLA (Service Level Agreement). If they fail to provide a major feature for a certain period of time customers may receive a refund.

However, Adobe quality is simply abysmal.  In the past I have waited months after a product release for them to sort out the bugs.  I have no faith that Adobe can create a quality service.
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RGF

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2013, 12:07:48 AM »
I'm thinking Adobe hired that ex-ceo from Netflix ;)

More like JC Penney!

They both tried to change the business model, cost their companies billions, and lost their jobs.

I wish there was more hazard.  Remember the Deep Horizon.  Who lost their job over that disaster?

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2013, 12:56:05 AM »
Quote
The software that you currently own WILL work forever on your machine.  No one is forcing you to upgrade to CC.

Yes, as long as you don't add lenses or bodies.  Competition is nipping around the edges here, with Nik/Google and others creating innovative stuff, and with Apple users having an alternative with Aperture.

I hope that pricing and usability don't take a turn for the worse.  I will allow for the possibility that innovation will benefit.

My biggest concern is Lightroom.  The whole pricing scheme seems to be tuned against frequent LR users that can get by with a slightly used version of Photoshop. 
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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2013, 12:56:05 AM »

Halfrack

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2013, 01:27:00 AM »
And no, you won't have any warning they are going away, unless you are an insider.  They DO go poof in the middle of the night.

Outside of the financial industry, it is very rare that a major corporation suddenly and without warning shuts it doors and leaves all customers out in the cold.

To point out a good reference, Adobe took down their activation servers used in CS2.  So they put up new software packages and keys for those who would have been unable to activate their software.

Honestly, anyone afraid of loosing their edits and work in lightroom, when you upgrade, keep that install file around on your hard drive with all your photos.  At any time, you can rent/borrow/upgrade/reinstall/virtualize a PC or Mac computer, install the 'dated' version of Lightroom and get a 30 day trial.  Open your existing library and do a mass export of everything to TIFF.

Still afraid?  I can't help you.  Adobe is in an odd spot right now.  Their tools are the industry standard.  We as the creative public want tools that make things easier and allow us to work quickly when dealing with huge amounts of data.  The technology isn't cheap, programmers aren't cheap, and theirs is a company that didn't have a reoccurring revenue model.  Creative Cloud gives them revenue monthly, to help level out the stock price, and keep income and expenses balanced.

If you make your living with Adobe products, $600 / year is a cost of doing business.  You write it off with everything else.  The catch is those who only dabble in Adobe products, who aren't willing/able to spend the extra money.  I don't see how Adobe is expected to separate those two user types without being abused.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 01:31:09 AM by Halfrack »
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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2013, 01:39:02 AM »
Adobe made this decision because a lot of people without a business donĀ“t pay for the Photoshop software (warez).

The other point is, that no personal computer in the world has the power for a oustanding new function.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2013, 01:39:02 AM »