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Author Topic: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software  (Read 41671 times)

xps

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #150 on: May 07, 2013, 05:27:25 PM »
A swap to this model of using Adope CS6 will cause some problems for big organisations that have to secure their datas .
The head of the IT department in the organisation where I work, is in doubt whether the state bureaus is allowing to open the firewall/safety-solutions to use this cloud based software. It is to risky. They are in fear to get hacked.
And we own really a lot of CS6 licences.

Okay, repeat after me: This is NOT a cloud application. This is Not a cloud application.

From Adobe's website: "And, as always, your applications live on your desktop, not in a browser and not in the cloud."

It is just a confusingly-named marketing scheme.

The problem I have, regardless of whether the software resides in the cloud, on your desktop or on Pandora, is a requirement for an internet connection so that every time you start the application a license check is performed.  That would cause a great deal of heartburn on my part.

It is not going to be that restrictive. The licensing server will either need to be connected to once ever 30 days or every 99 days. I have heard both numbers from adobe representative, so I am not sure which is true. My guess would be 30 days though.

And if it is 1 time a month, but it is an severe safety problem. My oranisation stores a lot of confident datas, on servers and on more then 2500 PCs. So each leakage is one leakage to much. Our IT-security management officer in chief got an little heart attack today, when he heared what he will have to allow.

That will be an severe problem in future. But,  if the first big organisation or company does not swap to the new productline, Adobe will react.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #150 on: May 07, 2013, 05:27:25 PM »

jm977

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #151 on: May 07, 2013, 06:20:26 PM »
Buy a copy of CS6 and only pay for LR thru CC or if they continue to use retail copy's. you can convert your RAWs to DNGs later on to continue editing in CS6 for years.

That's my plan anyway.

That's not a bad plan.  The only thing I worry about is that Adobe does not update DNG Converter in the future so that it will convert say, 5D mark5, to DNG so that you can open it in CS6.  That may go slightly against the point of what they are doing with CC.  It would be polite of them to continue to support and provide for free, the DNG Converter.  Unless someone's heard something I haven't.  Trouble is there is a lot of conflicting info bouncing around right now and some dust needs to settle. 

Schultzie

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #152 on: May 07, 2013, 06:26:58 PM »
This is from the FAQ:

You will need to be online when you install and license your software. If you have an annual membership, you'll be asked to connect to the web to validate your software licenses every 30 days.  However, you'll be able to use products for 3 months (99 days) even if you're offline.
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jm977

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #153 on: May 07, 2013, 06:27:57 PM »
Buy a copy of CS6 and only pay for LR thru CC or if they continue to use retail copy's. you can convert your RAWs to DNGs later on to continue editing in CS6 for years.

That's my plan anyway.

Ditto.
if you already have LR3 or 4, and PS as CS 3, 4, 5, or preferably 6, then those of us who only use it occasionally or as a host framework for plugins are just fine for as long as we care to freeze our workflow.
As long as you can export your raw file into DNG or 16b TIFF you can continue to do a lot of work without really changing workflow.  DPP, ViewNX, DxO, C1 and other 3rd party raw converters are there to do that.

I froze my OS and my PP software a couple years ago and despite what cameras I added it still allows me to continue working the way I'm comfortable with for years to come.  I'll be taking one more iterative step with OS, PS and LR4 and then that machine gets locked down, no more major SW updates.

If you gotta have some g-whiz new feature then you're gonna have to keep payin' for it unless some competition steps up to take the place of PS.
I know the tech already exists, it's just not well marketed yet.  Hopefully the authors will take this opportunity to push their software to improve customer awareness.

For some of the plugin suites, like Topaz, they already have a basic framework that allows standalone use.  I think this kind of functionality may become a little more commonplace.

GIMP, and Corel and some other small players will now get some extra attention and hopefully improve feature sets and usability.  Adobe's CC move is going to cause a bit of a shift in the whole ecosystem.

+1 on the plugin companies continuing the work on creating standalone versions.  This ought to help in extending use of existing versions of PS.  Workflow will slow but it may give time to someone to step up to the plate.  PS is just so darned intrenched.  I don't know if anyone even has the will or resources.  What a dismal future.

Normalnorm

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #154 on: May 07, 2013, 06:35:02 PM »
I can understand the annoyance or even outrage of many who object to this change by Adobe. However it has been hinted at for several years through the gradual adoption of more cloud services and subscription.

I was even told earlier this year that a sale of full, boxed copies of PS CS6 for $200 each through B&H was a push to clear out physical inventory in anticipation of the change.
That said, we have to take emotionalism out of the discussion and make a decision for our business.
The technical details about connectivity to the 'net are valid and I am sure Adobe will have answers for that if it doesn't have them already.

Full disclosure: I have not read every bitt of info about the subscription service so I don't have answers for everything.

A few observations:

First: Photoshop has always branded itself a tool for professionals who, in theory, use top quality tools, are professionally trained and carry a certain business overhead as a consequence of that professionalism. The price of subscription is less than one tank of gas per month. If your business cannot handle that maybe you need to think about whether you have a real business. If you are a hobbyist see items three and four below.

Second: Ownership. When you buy a tank of gas you own it. When you use it ,you exchange it for transportation that (I hope) was useful or profitable to you. You rent a motel room and got something for a short period of time that was of value. I buy a new piece of gear on whether it makes money for me or not.

I buy toys that make me happy but I do not pretend that it is critical to my life.

The same for software. You rent PS and, as a pro, you use it create unique profitable image that the amateur with Picasa cannot. Then you can deduct it as an expense from the increased revenue like a real business would.
If you are a hobbyist, see below.

Third: Stick with what you have. Many are still using PS CS2. CS6 is wonderful but I scratch only the surface of the program and I am a fairly adept user. This is where Windows users benefit as they can use a huge range of versions whereas Mac users are stuck where their HW/SW combinations leave them.

Fourth: There are alternatives to PS and LR that permit ownership of the app. If you wish you can switch. Of course that entails cost, effort, and time but you are free of Adobe. Furthermore, Adobe will get your message if enough of you do switch.
Aperture is cheap and Apple may be persuaded to pour some resources into it should they sense an opportunity. Of course Apple was the first mass implementer of the  cloud business model so you may find no love there.

extremeinstability

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #155 on: May 07, 2013, 08:33:06 PM »
Thank god CS6 has the ability it has.  They should have tried screwing everyone a while ago.

RLPhoto

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #156 on: May 07, 2013, 08:45:11 PM »
Buy a copy of CS6 and only pay for LR thru CC or if they continue to use retail copy's. you can convert your RAWs to DNGs later on to continue editing in CS6 for years.

That's my plan anyway.

That's not a bad plan.  The only thing I worry about is that Adobe does not update DNG Converter in the future so that it will convert say, 5D mark5, to DNG so that you can open it in CS6.  That may go slightly against the point of what they are doing with CC.  It would be polite of them to continue to support and provide for free, the DNG Converter.  Unless someone's heard something I haven't.  Trouble is there is a lot of conflicting info bouncing around right now and some dust needs to settle.

No, you'd use the new LR6 to covert the 5d4 files to older style DNGs to process them.
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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #156 on: May 07, 2013, 08:45:11 PM »

dafrank

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Shame on you Adobe
« Reply #157 on: May 07, 2013, 09:08:01 PM »
I am a professional. I do treat all my business related purchases as business deductions, I own the Creative Suite Master Collection version CS6.0 and previously had Master Suite in version CS5.5 and CS5.0, and Design Premium in CS4, CS3, CS2 and the original CS, plus had Photoshop with multiple licences in almost every version before that going back to PS2.5, different versions of InDesign, Illustrator, Acrobat and several other pieces of miscellaneous Adobe products. In other words, for a very small business, probably the backbone of Adobe profitability, I am the very customer Adobe should want to please. I am not a troglodyte, I am all for new forms of service and product delivery when it makes sense and adds value to the customer and his business. I HATE THIS SUBSCRIPTION MODEL, WILL RESIST IT IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, SAW IT COMING A MILE AWAY, AND DO NOT VIEW THIS AS ANY SORT OF POSITIVE, NECESSARY OR INEVITABLE DEVELOPMENT FOR ADOBE'S CUSTOMERS.

The only value added by this is to Adobe's bottom line. I don't think profit is a dirty word. I don't begrudge Adobe their profit, and I would like to do whatever I can to raise my own business margins, but my experience has long proven to me that I can't do that by simply unilaterally raising prices, complicating the product delivery process, giving clients products that they didn't ask for, changing the terms of payment and asserting total control over what used to be up to the discretion of my clients. The profit that is best is that earned from pleasing your customers by offering great choices, not forcing them in an unequal power relationship, by offering your clients real product innovation and quality, real productivity gains, continuity of exceptional service, and just plain respect. Adobe has done none of this, but has unilaterally decided to try to impose a scheme to just force its customers into forking over more money, at their pleasure, on their schedule, for either no, or nearly no, added value to its customer base whatsoever.

Shame on you Adobe. This will not end well for you or your customers.

Regards,
David
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FunPhotons

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #158 on: May 07, 2013, 09:18:46 PM »
They'll probably lose some amateurs at least. Under their old model I upgraded LR every year and PS every few years. Then they did the one time thing to PS6 which I missed out on, so I'm staying on PS5 (or 4?). Still works. But now with this I'm annoyed enough at LR that I'm ready to boot that too to find something faster. All I really care about is DNG, custom renaming on import and calibrations. Otherwise LR stinks - it's so slow I can't stand it sometimes. I wouldn't have bothered if it wasn't for this.


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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #159 on: May 07, 2013, 09:29:19 PM »
Here is a bit of irony. I went to the Adobe website today just to learn a bit more. I was surprised at all the applications available. Cool things that I might want to try.

So, okay. If they had sent me an offer to voluntarily try out the Cloud at $20 a month, I probably would have felt like it was a real bargain and jumped at the chance, so long as I knew that I could go back to the old system if I found it wasn't worthwhile. But instead of enticing customers to try it out, they have completely mismanaged the whole thing by shoving it down customers throats.

Interestingly, their own forum boards are filled with disgruntled customers and their big Adobe Max confab has now one big negative story coming out of it. As someone who has spent most of my working life helping people communicate with the public, I can only imagine the conversations that are going on in their PR department. This is exactly the sort of thing that happens when CEOS, Engineers and Accountants drive the agenda and don't listen to their communications people.
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FunPhotons

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #160 on: May 07, 2013, 09:38:39 PM »
OK so I determined that either Image Mechanic will do what I want, or it is possible to do it with some hand built stuff. Who knows maybe I'll write a nice little software around it and sell it.

Wouldn't have gone this far if Adobe hadn't pushed me. And this is the key, they're forcing customers to decide who is serious and who isn't, and I suspect they'll lose revenue from the not serious crowd.

rpt

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #161 on: May 07, 2013, 09:45:51 PM »
OK so I determined that either Image Mechanic will do what I want, or it is possible to do it with some hand built stuff. Who knows maybe I'll write a nice little software around it and sell it.

Wouldn't have gone this far if Adobe hadn't pushed me. And this is the key, they're forcing customers to decide who is serious and who isn't, and I suspect they'll lose revenue from the not serious crowd.
If you make, I am willing to QA. Seriously!

Edit: Windows only setup though... And I just have Windows XP and Windows 7. Don't plan to go to Windows 8 unless the XP dies and win8 has got to SP2...
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 09:49:22 PM by rpt »

RLPhoto

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #162 on: May 07, 2013, 10:19:57 PM »
Quote
"No, you'd use the new LR6 to covert the 5d4 files to older style DNGs to process them. "

Why bother to convert to DNG? Just "render using LightRoom", which has always been an option and works around newer cameras and ACR limitations for older PS/CS versions, you can open 5D MkIII files with any PS version if you have LightRoom 4.

As for Adobe and their new policy, I would just make two points, if you need PS/CS you can pay for it, and write it off. If you can't pay for it then you probably already didn't.

And, whilst Adobe might have the most genuine of interests in providing "better" service for people who do actually pay, and they have a predictable non fluctuating revenue stream via this new model, they are trading license terms for power, basically they can kill your ability to use the programs whereas before they had to bring enough new features to the game for you to upgrade to earn their money. Once enough people are locked in Adobe don't actually have to do anything for their money other than keep the licensing program going. This kind of power imbalance leads to arrogance, power and arrogance lead to bad buisness models for the users, but good buisness models for share holders.

If you ever to decide not to pay the LR CC version, you'll still be able to process the ones you've down-converted to DNG. Plus, DNGs are a lot smaller than keeping 16 bit tiffs or 16 bit PSDs.

Its a workaround I plan to use unless adobe smartened up a ditches this idea. Pay for LR CC and convert to DNG as needed and export 16 bit PSD for edits. Unless adobe updates the LR CC PSDs to only be openable by PS CC, then that's just cold.
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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #162 on: May 07, 2013, 10:19:57 PM »

cayenne

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #163 on: May 07, 2013, 10:51:07 PM »
oh contraire mon ami  - you had to download it from their server.  That's the whole point of "Software as a Service."  Either way you look at it, you will pay to play, stay with what you have or look for a more palatable alternative.    Google will eventually move to the model for the Nik Collection.  Most of their service offerings are already based on it.

And yes, software piracy does come into play in this game.  Companies like Apple, Microsoft and Adobe that write software need to protect their revenues.  Sure it won't stop piracy but it does allow the software companies to stay one step ahead of the pirates.  Think about it:  you ever download an evaluation or "trial version," of any software and have it stop working after the trial period expired. 

No buy license - no ticket to ride.

oh contraire mon ami ...  just you wait and see.




I hate to be the harbinger of bad news but its not just Adobe.  It didn't start with Adobe and probably won't end with Adobe.  Enter Microsoft, Apple, Salesforce, Google (downloaded Nik Collection recently?), state government and private IT datacenters, Drop-Box, etc. etc.
                             ;)

Err....yes, I bought the NIK Collection, but it isn't a service, and I don't have to pay more than once.
I downloaded the plugins, they work, and I don't have to pay again for them....
I think you're using the terms much different that what I understand them to be.
Buying software online, but a one time purchase and it is yours and does NOT have to be online to be used...is just buying software and downloading it onlne.

Software as a service is software that you never own, nor are licensed to used for as long as you like. YOu are 'renting' it literally in SAAS. The software phones home periodically to make sure you are still paying rent, and if you do not successfully connect for it to self verify, it ceases to work.

The NIK stuff, is not SAAS at this time. It 'could' be on some future edition I suppose, but any change Google makes to it going forward with new versions, will not affect my purchased suite I just got. My NIK purchase does not have to phone home to be renewed.

That's the difference between regular software (either downloaded or purchased on optical formats, etc) vs Software as a Service.

Just trying to get the terminology down. But just downloading software does not make is SAAS.

HTH,

cayenne

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #164 on: May 07, 2013, 10:56:17 PM »
A swap to this model of using Adope CS6 will cause some problems for big organisations that have to secure their datas .
The head of the IT department in the organisation where I work, is in doubt whether the state bureaus is allowing to open the firewall/safety-solutions to use this cloud based software. It is to risky. They are in fear to get hacked.
And we own really a lot of CS6 licences.

Okay, repeat after me: This is NOT a cloud application. This is Not a cloud application.

From Adobe's website: "And, as always, your applications live on your desktop, not in a browser and not in the cloud."

It is just a confusingly-named marketing scheme.

The problem I have, regardless of whether the software resides in the cloud, on your desktop or on Pandora, is a requirement for an internet connection so that every time you start the application a license check is performed.  That would cause a great deal of heartburn on my part.

This model hasn't done gangbusters on every company that has tried it either.

Witness the dismal acceptance and sales of the new version of Sim City that recently came out. Lots of fanfare and anticipation, but once people saw that it had to always have an internet connection, for what was essentially a single player game...it was largely rejected and NOT a money maker.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #164 on: May 07, 2013, 10:56:17 PM »