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Author Topic: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software  (Read 54652 times)

wsmith96

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #165 on: May 08, 2013, 12:13:40 AM »
Adobe is just following a trend.  Stock prices perform well when you smooth out the quarterly revenues with subscription services.  The people this won't affect are the professionals as they will pass that cost along to their clients.  Amateurs and enthusiasts will have to make a choice, but understand that the other vendors will follow Adobe's lead.  I know Corel is already entertaining this as well.

the issue is what adobe will do when the honeymoon is over.  After the subscriptions normalize, so will the stock price which means adobe will be pushed by investors to seek new ways to increase revenue. My concern is the same as expressed earlier - what happens if adobe decides that they will hold your work hostage.  It wouldn't take much for them to push your files to an online only organizer where you could have access to your originals only, but have to pay to get to the edited versions.  Have you seen adobe revel?  This platform is well suited to do just that.  If I were them, I would make the service free, but in some way painful like giving you a low storage amount, or only allowing x number if uploads a day.  Then I would allow you to upgrade your service, etc. Oh, wait, they are already starting to do that. Again, the professionals will pass the costs along to their clients, but the people like me whom are becoming tired of being nickled and dimed will have a problem with this. What if adobe writes their license agreement to where you only have rights to your originals, but have joint or sole ownership of the edits - especially in exchange for a service for free.  This is somewhat the model google uses. Would it piss you off to see one of your pictures used in an advertisement and you weren't paid a royalty or given credit? 

now this is some serious forward speculation here but it isn't that far fetched.  The millennium babies are used to a rented life style and services for free in exchange for giving up intellectual ownership to the data they produce using these services. Companies today are positioning themselves to take advantage of that market. They make money by upselling  you services, or by capitalizing on your intellectual property. interesting thing to watch will be the companies like Corel, serif, google, Microsoft, etc.  Google and Microsoft are already kings in the cloud services market and they are in a position to actually steal some of Adobe's business away by offering "close enough to adobe" apps.  Ever wonder why google bought nik software? Microsoft has photo software too though they aren't using much of it yet.  The other lesser used software companies now have a shot at a level playing field as each company will scramble to provide the best service at the best price.  Even though it is adobe we are discussing, every software company is on the ground floor when it comes to cloud services.  By leveling the playing field, adobe is vulnerable to actually losing marketshare as this new generation of buyers is used to cheap/free and jumping between services for the better deal. What could happen is that adobe may end up with professional customers only, where as Corel and google provide you with free apps for any of your devices that can do the same thing. Guess how many professionals there are compared to hobbyists or ppl who think they are professionals. 

Do you really need adobe to do your photography work? Think about that before you answer.



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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #165 on: May 08, 2013, 12:13:40 AM »

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #166 on: May 08, 2013, 12:16:10 AM »
It's a big price increase, no matter how they spin it.

CC stands for Cash Cow, as someone said over on Facebook.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #167 on: May 08, 2013, 12:19:02 AM »
The mandatory move to CC subscription licensing only affects products in the current "CS6" range. Bundled products without a CS6 badge (including Lightroom and Acrobat, plus all the "Elements" versions) will continue to be available under perpetual licenses as they are now.

All paid CC members will have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select older versions of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided “as is” and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms.
Who are you? Adobe rep? Is that official info?

Yes it's official info - I'm an ACP, we speak to the user community on behalf of Adobe but we're not sales reps.

Please read the CC FAQ at http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.htm (it's being updated with new items regularly, including my two points above).

To touch on pricing, as Tom Hogarty said last week, Adobe are looking at how their product offers can best be tailored to suit photographers. That may mean in future there are 'pick-n-mix' bundles at different price points - but it's very early days. As I'm sure you appreciate, feedback is not something Adobe are short of this week  ;)

The position on Lightroom is a little more complex than Photoshop, as Lr is a bundle product (it doesn't sync release dates with CS, this time it's a coincidence). All existing perpetual licenses for Lr4 and earlier will continue to work, perpetual licenses for Lr5 will go on sale when the public beta ends, and Lr5 will be rolled out to existing Creative Cloud and new CC subscribers just as Lr4 was. The only significant difference is that boxed copies are not available - All Adobe software is download-only as of this month, so you buy a serial number (from Adobe's store or through the normal retail networks like Amazon) and download the installer from Adobe's CDN. Of course you can burn it to disc as a backup if you want.

In future there may well be times when new features appear in the CC-bundled version of Lr which aren't yet in the perpetual version, because Cloud subscribers get new features quicker (as SOX doesn't apply).

The questions about Web connectivity seem to have been resolved; to summarize - CC normally pings the activation server once every 30 days. If you don't have connectivity it will run a grace period of another 30 days, then revert to trial mode (which then runs for 30 days) - this gives 99 full days of work before the apps refuse to open. Customers have been asking about how to install CC on firewalled machines or how to work for more than 99 days in remote locations, there will be clarification on that shortly.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #168 on: May 08, 2013, 12:56:13 AM »
The mandatory move to CC subscription licensing only affects products in the current "CS6" range. Bundled products without a CS6 badge (including Lightroom and Acrobat, plus all the "Elements" versions) will continue to be available under perpetual licenses as they are now.

All paid CC members will have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select older versions of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided “as is” and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms.
Who are you? Adobe rep? Is that official info?

Yes it's official info - I'm an ACP, we speak to the user community on behalf of Adobe but we're not sales reps.

Please read the CC FAQ at http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.htm (it's being updated with new items regularly, including my two points above).

To touch on pricing, as Tom Hogarty said last week, Adobe are looking at how their product offers can best be tailored to suit photographers. That may mean in future there are 'pick-n-mix' bundles at different price points - but it's very early days. As I'm sure you appreciate, feedback is not something Adobe are short of this week  ;)

The position on Lightroom is a little more complex than Photoshop, as Lr is a bundle product (it doesn't sync release dates with CS, this time it's a coincidence). All existing perpetual licenses for Lr4 and earlier will continue to work, perpetual licenses for Lr5 will go on sale when the public beta ends, and Lr5 will be rolled out to existing Creative Cloud and new CC subscribers just as Lr4 was. The only significant difference is that boxed copies are not available - All Adobe software is download-only as of this month, so you buy a serial number (from Adobe's store or through the normal retail networks like Amazon) and download the installer from Adobe's CDN. Of course you can burn it to disc as a backup if you want.

In future there may well be times when new features appear in the CC-bundled version of Lr which aren't yet in the perpetual version, because Cloud subscribers get new features quicker (as SOX doesn't apply).

The questions about Web connectivity seem to have been resolved; to summarize - CC normally pings the activation server once every 30 days. If you don't have connectivity it will run a grace period of another 30 days, then revert to trial mode (which then runs for 30 days) - this gives 99 full days of work before the apps refuse to open. Customers have been asking about how to install CC on firewalled machines or how to work for more than 99 days in remote locations, there will be clarification on that shortly.

Nice of you to clarify, appreciated.

Issue exist within the way in which Adobe have handled this, from small to huge, the support has been virtually non extent here in Singapore, if there was an alternative I'de be knocking on their doors, which I'm sure wouldn't worry Adobe in the least.

I'm in fact one of the few on this Thread that thinks the Creative Cloud/App system works just fine, Apple have it down reasonably pat, Adobe's Creative Cloud attempt to Market has been an unmitigated disaster.

The 30 day re ping thing is total BS in my opinion, Adobe like so many other Companies in the "Digital Age" simply think that everyone on the Planet is connected to the Internet 24/7, that's just not the case, I may not be away from an Internet connection for 90 days, but I certainly have 45 to 60 days at times if I'm travelling in places like Antarctica, The Arctic, Africa, to have a situation where you need to be pinged every 30 days is nonsense, I have to assume this is based on the Monthly Billing, which I also think is ludicrous, there seems no option for an annual payment system unless you go to the "Business" oriented packages.

Adobe will loose custom, there isn't any doubt in my view, they may not loose the serious Amateurs or the Business involvement, but I cant see the individuals that take up CS4 for instance, then sit on the package for 4 years relying on updates to the CS4 package, liking this "annualised" hit to the pocket.

And has been said, it may be that the "system" Adobe has taken on will over time become more user friendly, but the support side is a total crock of you know what, if you want support in Asia, you get a Phone Number that's answered in Mumbai by people that hardly know what day of the week it is, numerous calls to these Guys has just ensured that my personal view of Adobe support goes from Ho Hum to downright hopeless.

But I'm sure Adobe will continue to prosper because again as has been said, at the moment, really what else is out there does what CS6 Suite does, Aperture ?? Not even close, and most of the other suggestions on this thread don't either.

I could live with the whole deal if Adobe would just get their support side to lift their heads out of their collective dark place.
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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #169 on: May 08, 2013, 01:08:10 AM »
Buy a copy of CS6 and only pay for LR thru CC or if they continue to use retail copy's. you can convert your RAWs to DNGs later on to continue editing in CS6 for years.

That's my plan anyway.

No upgrades, no new features, ... imagine being stuck on CS(1) or earlier.  Would you be happy?

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #170 on: May 08, 2013, 02:17:28 AM »
Adobe kinda just leveled the playing field a bit. Now everyone feels the need to stop at CS6. Meanwhile, Apple, Microsoft, Google, and anyone else who feels the need to gain some market share from Adobe's goof can gain speed right before we decide to upgrade.

Adobe's right, they should abandon the disc. I think the Creative Cloud belongs on a 4 inch "floppy".

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #171 on: May 08, 2013, 02:34:42 AM »
The mandatory move to CC subscription licensing only affects products in the current "CS6" range. Bundled products without a CS6 badge (including Lightroom and Acrobat, plus all the "Elements" versions) will continue to be available under perpetual licenses as they are now.

All paid CC members will have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select older versions of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided “as is” and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms.
Who are you? Adobe rep? Is that official info?

Yes it's official info - I'm an ACP, we speak to the user community on behalf of Adobe but we're not sales reps.

Please read the CC FAQ at http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.htm (it's being updated with new items regularly, including my two points above).

To touch on pricing, as Tom Hogarty said last week, Adobe are looking at how their product offers can best be tailored to suit photographers. That may mean in future there are 'pick-n-mix' bundles at different price points - but it's very early days. As I'm sure you appreciate, feedback is not something Adobe are short of this week  ;)

The position on Lightroom is a little more complex than Photoshop, as Lr is a bundle product (it doesn't sync release dates with CS, this time it's a coincidence). All existing perpetual licenses for Lr4 and earlier will continue to work, perpetual licenses for Lr5 will go on sale when the public beta ends, and Lr5 will be rolled out to existing Creative Cloud and new CC subscribers just as Lr4 was. The only significant difference is that boxed copies are not available - All Adobe software is download-only as of this month, so you buy a serial number (from Adobe's store or through the normal retail networks like Amazon) and download the installer from Adobe's CDN. Of course you can burn it to disc as a backup if you want.

In future there may well be times when new features appear in the CC-bundled version of Lr which aren't yet in the perpetual version, because Cloud subscribers get new features quicker (as SOX doesn't apply).

The questions about Web connectivity seem to have been resolved; to summarize - CC normally pings the activation server once every 30 days. If you don't have connectivity it will run a grace period of another 30 days, then revert to trial mode (which then runs for 30 days) - this gives 99 full days of work before the apps refuse to open. Customers have been asking about how to install CC on firewalled machines or how to work for more than 99 days in remote locations, there will be clarification on that shortly.
Thanks for clarifying, I realized I came out as a bit rude in my comment, I didn't mean to. I was on the run and sometimes people on this forum make claims without any insight whatsoever.

About the difference in update intervals between subscribed and perpetual, it completely makes sense. You get what you pay for and it makes more sense to implement changes to the online versions more often.

thanks
J

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #171 on: May 08, 2013, 02:34:42 AM »

sandymandy

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #172 on: May 08, 2013, 02:43:00 AM »
Im a bit confused. Does it mean i cant buy lightroom for myself (private use) anymore but only get some kind of lightroom subscription?

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #173 on: May 08, 2013, 02:43:53 AM »
It's possible but I think we talking the same language.  You might say I'm going beyond the literal definition to:  "How many ways can I expand this distribution/pricing model?"

What do you call a distribution/delivery mechanism to acquire software only by download -- no media is made available. Where you the consumer can acquire software or other services 24/7 - on demand and on-line over the web. 

I said nothing of requiring you to be tethered via an on-line connection to be able to "use the product"; however, for a fee, there are additional services available to you as a customer should you choose to "store" or retrieve your data, take advantage of other features etc. etc.  For that - well, if you want access to it ...

You have to look at each component that makes up the SaaS model.  At its core, a SaaS is a software distribution model.  Whether you buy it or pay a subscription fee (pricing model), the premise of the distribution model remains constant.   Oh BTW --you have to establish an on-line connection when you click on that: "Check for Updates ..." 

If it sounds like a duck; Walks like a duck and looks like a duck.  Its a duck.

That recent $129 - $149 Google Nik Collection offer -- that was honey for the bees.  Like any other company, Google exists to make a profit.   

Let's do what Adobe is doing -- wait 6 - 12 mos. and see how their new model plays out in the marketplace.

I'm done here.



 

oh contraire mon ami  - you had to download it from their server.  That's the whole point of "Software as a Service."  Either way you look at it, you will pay to play, stay with what you have or look for a more palatable alternative.    Google will eventually move to the model for the Nik Collection.  Most of their service offerings are already based on it.

And yes, software piracy does come into play in this game.  Companies like Apple, Microsoft and Adobe that write software need to protect their revenues.  Sure it won't stop piracy but it does allow the software companies to stay one step ahead of the pirates.  Think about it:  you ever download an evaluation or "trial version," of any software and have it stop working after the trial period expired. 

No buy license - no ticket to ride.

oh contraire mon ami ...  just you wait and see.




I hate to be the harbinger of bad news but its not just Adobe.  It didn't start with Adobe and probably won't end with Adobe.  Enter Microsoft, Apple, Salesforce, Google (downloaded Nik Collection recently?), state government and private IT datacenters, Drop-Box, etc. etc.
                             ;)

Err....yes, I bought the NIK Collection, but it isn't a service, and I don't have to pay more than once.
I downloaded the plugins, they work, and I don't have to pay again for them....
I think you're using the terms much different that what I understand them to be.
Buying software online, but a one time purchase and it is yours and does NOT have to be online to be used...is just buying software and downloading it onlne.

Software as a service is software that you never own, nor are licensed to used for as long as you like. YOu are 'renting' it literally in SAAS. The software phones home periodically to make sure you are still paying rent, and if you do not successfully connect for it to self verify, it ceases to work.

The NIK stuff, is not SAAS at this time. It 'could' be on some future edition I suppose, but any change Google makes to it going forward with new versions, will not affect my purchased suite I just got. My NIK purchase does not have to phone home to be renewed.

That's the difference between regular software (either downloaded or purchased on optical formats, etc) vs Software as a Service.

Just trying to get the terminology down. But just downloading software does not make is SAAS.

HTH,

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #174 on: May 08, 2013, 02:52:54 AM »
Hi,

Here's what Adobe says:  "The desktop applications do not live in the cloud. You install them like you've always installed them. That said, they need to connect to the internet once a month to verify your membership."

I conclude that there's actually no change between CS and CC since the programs in CS already connect to Adobe's server to check various things and send information.  That means piracy cannot be a reason behind Adobe move.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #175 on: May 08, 2013, 04:11:14 AM »
Im a bit confused. Does it mean i cant buy lightroom for myself (private use) anymore but only get some kind of lightroom subscription?

You can absolutely buy Lightroom for yourself, as a retail copy with no subscription, just as before. You can also get it on subscription.

The only products which are becoming subscription-only are the ones with 'CC' in their name, as listed here: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/tools-and-services.html

DFM

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #176 on: May 08, 2013, 04:39:18 AM »
The 30 day re ping thing is total BS in my opinion, Adobe like so many other Companies in the "Digital Age" simply think that everyone on the Planet is connected to the Internet 24/7, that's just not the case, I may not be away from an Internet connection for 90 days, but I certainly have 45 to 60 days at times if I'm travelling in places like Antarctica, The Arctic, Africa, to have a situation where you need to be pinged every 30 days is nonsense, I have to assume this is based on the Monthly Billing, which I also think is ludicrous, there seems no option for an annual payment system unless you go to the "Business" oriented packages.

And has been said, it may be that the "system" Adobe has taken on will over time become more user friendly, but the support side is a total crock of you know what, if you want support in Asia, you get a Phone Number that's answered in Mumbai by people that hardly know what day of the week it is, numerous calls to these Guys has just ensured that my personal view of Adobe support goes from Ho Hum to downright hopeless.

If you're offline for between 30 and 60 days, your installed products will continue to work just fine - you will see a 'cannot connect' message after day 30 with a 30-day countdown timer, just dismiss it and carry on working. I know it doesn't help people who are literally in the middle of nowhere, but a 'ping' is only a few tens of bytes; and only one app from the installed collection needs to make the connection. As I said, Adobe are looking at options to help users who are routinely off-grid for months at a time, so there may be a 'pre-book' system introduced.

The Adobe store sells monthly and annual plans to personal customers, but both are actually billed on a month-by-month basis to your credit card. Retailers will be able to sell CC subscriptions in pre-pay blocks, so you can buy a full year in one transaction through them. I expect we'll see some competitive pricing in the retail sector.

As to the performance of Customer Support, I completely understand. It should be better, and we continually advocate on your behalf to improve the service. If you have account-related questions (billing, lost serial numbers, etc.) you have to go through CS as only they have visibility on your financials, but for technical stuff I strongly suggest posting in the community forum ( http://forums.adobe.com ) - we have folks in there who know vastly more than the agents in CS, and we're free!  ;)

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #177 on: May 08, 2013, 05:02:55 AM »
I think most people on here are getting carried away and running with the sheep...

I think CC is a great idea the amount of applications from the suite you get the value per app is quite high. Like I said earlier the Full CS6 Suite is £2,500 and you can have that for £600py and 45% less if you are upgrading. Seen as tho the CS suites have had a 18month life span in theory its cheaper... and there are a lot of new aps you may not have heard of which are brilliant. Like Muse and Edge.

The suite has 38 different apps and add ons. for £48 a month to start that is 80p per application. In my business we use all of them.

If you are just a photographer and not in multimedia which I find hard to believe, then a version of photoshop is £17 a month which I also see as good value, compared to spending the full outlay on PS Extended which is £649, then a new version will be out in 18 months with an upgrade path of 50% off so thats £900 for one programme. or £204 a year for PS CC.

TBH I feel most of the people who are complaining are not current subscribers to CS anyway and get it some how under the rug... For a pro it is bread and butter and it pays for itself, its a small price to pay.

For the people who apparently bought every CS suite, what did you do with it after you upgraded? I bet you didn't sell it, I bet its still sitting on a shelf.

Its like getting a car on PP you pay for the usage then dont have to worry about residuals and depreciation because the package is better value for people who USE it.

The IF statement whether you quit and then you have nothing for your money, well as a pro why would you quit? If you are a current customer they are giving good upgrade paths... There is NOTHING on the market even close and it is an industry standard! All agencies, newspapers etc use it. The CS suite has been in development for 20 years. I don't see anything coming to market at the same scale and quality any time soon.

PS is a pro application with pro prices... people seem to forget that, its not the go to app for any old john doe, it never has been its just been made available by piracy.
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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #177 on: May 08, 2013, 05:02:55 AM »

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #178 on: May 08, 2013, 08:26:39 AM »
Quote
I'm contemplating Capture One for the bulk of my post-processing with Lightroom (with Nik tools) as a backup until Adobe stops supporting its user base too.  I have been a Photoshop user for 18 years.

i was thinking the exact same thing. i have been wanting to get more familiar with Capture One anyway as i hear it has a stellar processor.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #179 on: May 08, 2013, 08:49:58 AM »
I think most people on here are getting carried awouay and running with the sheep...

...and those who aren't running are getting picked off by wolves. The money mongers at Adobe are baaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Seriously though, how could anyone really support this? $600/year for one or two software programs we actually use but availability of those we don't need vs. buying CS7 outright. Look at the long term. I dropped ~$200 buying CS5, this new pricing scheme will obviously bring them more money, unless the sheep actually separate themselves from the wolves.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #179 on: May 08, 2013, 08:49:58 AM »