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Author Topic: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software  (Read 53365 times)

Maui5150

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #180 on: May 08, 2013, 09:01:37 AM »
Dong believe the BS on how often Adobe will Ping the network from your PC as well as don't believe that they don't track and gather a TON of your personal data.

I run Eset at home for my Virus/FW and have it set to exclusively disallow and every app has to request access. It can be a slow process at first with the pop-up constantly coming up, but the HUGE advantage, you really get an idea of what your software does and how often it "Calls Home" to the mother base.

So of it is of course the "Is there an upgrade" check, but with Adobe products, especially Flash, you would be surprised how you go to certain websites and all of a sudden Flash is asking permission to talk to Adobe. 

And to Tomscott - you are an idiot and many of us don't appreciate you assertion that we are pirates.

Most people here may not be subscribers to CS, but I would assert that most people here ARE Owners of Photoshop.  Hell.  I think I finally tossed out some of my Photoshop 3 discs the other day... Not CS 3, but Photoshop 3.

For myself, I am not a Creative Suite 6 owner.  I am a Creative Suite 5 owner, as well as a Photoshop CS 6 owner... I really had no need to upgrade the other tools, and hell, I was was a Cold Fusion, Cold Fusion Studio user back when they were MacroMedia Products.

Long story short, I like to OWN my software and decide what I need to use on a regular basis and what I need to use on an occasional basis.  I see the big scam going on, which may be beneficial for a small subset of users, or users who were foolish with their money and bought suites that they really did not need, but don't diminish the specialized user whose average cost for a product like Photoshop is below $100 a year.  Some of us time sales, watch for holiday sales and the like, and whether my 5 year cost is $400 or as high as $550, it has been pretty consistent in terms of cost.

For the Photoshop user, the cost is $20/month.  I know there has been mention that it will be as low as $10, but I have been all over the Adobe site and single app on Photoshop is $20/mo.  That is $240 a year, or my cost 5 years from now is 1200.  That is a 60% increase.

What pisses off users, and something you don't grasp - is not all users want to upgrade all the time.  Some of us decide that Photoshop CS 5 might have been worth the upgrade, CS 5.5 not so much, and CS 6, yeah, go for it... So lets say CS7 is worth while, but CS8 only runs on Windows 2015... and a user does not want yo upgrade.  They are F%^*(ked in the CC because they are paying monthly for an upgrade they don't or CAN'T USE. 

I know people who still run LightRoom 3.6.  Why

Gee, they are on XP and don't need or want to upgrade to Win 7.  Yup... Not all the bang and whistles of LR 4, and yes, LightRoom 4 was a nice step up, but as someone who has been in IT for 25 years and on the Internet for 20 (I originally used NCSA Mosaic and still have a Beta .93 version of Netscape lying around)  I have seen a lot of hardware.

And by the way, your comment:

"The CS suite has been in development for 20 years. I don't see anything coming to market at the same scale and quality any time soon."


Really?  That platform back then was Windows for Workgroups 3.11 if you were lucky.  If you wanted to get on the Internet, you used a dial-up modem for the most part, and if you were lucky you had a smoking 2400 baud model.  I still have one floating around.  and man, when you got up to 9600 or even 14.4 or 19.2... you were smoking.

Back then we created two versions of websites, one that handled graphics like backgrounds, and some of us even remember the dreaded "blink" tag, and those that were text only for browsers like Lynx. 

Adobe Photoshop CS came out in 2003.  Some of us remember it because we had of say, Photoshop 3, Photoshop 4, 5, 5.5, 6 and 7 before the CS line of software came out.

So please... Enlighten me... How has Creative Suite been in development for 20 years, when CS was first released in 2003???? 

And sorry... as someone who HAS been using Photoshop for 20 years, I don't like the idea of "Renting" the software going forward, especially since I have a lot of Adobe products I have seen little need to upgrade, and prefer a model where I OWN what I buy and have freedom to use it as long as you want. 

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #180 on: May 08, 2013, 09:01:37 AM »

FunPhotons

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #181 on: May 08, 2013, 09:44:02 AM »
I think most people on here are getting carried away and running with the sheep...

.. blah blah ..

PS is a pro application with pro prices... people seem to forget that, its not the go to app for any old john doe, it never has been its just been made available by piracy.

The definitions are meaningless, all that matters here is a company that has a business model and consumers that vote with their dollars. As I said earlier I'm the type of user that upgrades every other year, or every third year. Works fine for me with my usage, and Adobe got a nice little revenue stream from that. Then they went to a model where you have to upgrade every year. OK I stopped upgrading and considered next steps as they don't support my use case anymore. Now they even disallow using legacy software, you have to pay for use.

Fine, whatever, their call. Note that the only reason for doing this however is their own convienance in not having to maintain two code bases. It's certainly not a customer request because those who need CC had it, and those who didn't, don't. This will cut off the occasional users like me and open the door for competition. Might be a good strategy or might not.

I should mention, the point about piracy is also meaningless. I work on the other end of that which is preventing software piracy, and I can say that adding Cloud support doesn't magically make it harder to pirate.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 09:48:35 AM by FunPhotons »

cayenne

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #182 on: May 08, 2013, 09:50:01 AM »
The mandatory move to CC subscription licensing only affects products in the current "CS6" range. Bundled products without a CS6 badge (including Lightroom and Acrobat, plus all the "Elements" versions) will continue to be available under perpetual licenses as they are now.

All paid CC members will have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select older versions of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided “as is” and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms.

Who are you? Adobe rep? Is that official info?


Yes it's official info - I'm an ACP, we speak to the user community on behalf of Adobe but we're not sales reps.

Please read the CC FAQ at http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.htm (it's being updated with new items regularly, including my two points above).

To touch on pricing, as Tom Hogarty said last week, Adobe are looking at how their product offers can best be tailored to suit photographers. That may mean in future there are 'pick-n-mix' bundles at different price points - but it's very early days. As I'm sure you appreciate, feedback is not something Adobe are short of this week  ;)

The position on Lightroom is a little more complex than Photoshop, as Lr is a bundle product (it doesn't sync release dates with CS, this time it's a coincidence). All existing perpetual licenses for Lr4 and earlier will continue to work, perpetual licenses for Lr5 will go on sale when the public beta ends, and Lr5 will be rolled out to existing Creative Cloud and new CC subscribers just as Lr4 was. The only significant difference is that boxed copies are not available - All Adobe software is download-only as of this month, so you buy a serial number (from Adobe's store or through the normal retail networks like Amazon) and download the installer from Adobe's CDN. Of course you can burn it to disc as a backup if you want.

In future there may well be times when new features appear in the CC-bundled version of Lr which aren't yet in the perpetual version, because Cloud subscribers get new features quicker (as SOX doesn't apply).

The questions about Web connectivity seem to have been resolved; to summarize - CC normally pings the activation server once every 30 days. If you don't have connectivity it will run a grace period of another 30 days, then revert to trial mode (which then runs for 30 days) - this gives 99 full days of work before the apps refuse to open. Customers have been asking about how to install CC on firewalled machines or how to work for more than 99 days in remote locations, there will be clarification on that shortly.


So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 09:56:06 AM by cayenne »

FunPhotons

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #183 on: May 08, 2013, 10:16:49 AM »
May have been mentioned already but Acorn for OS X might be adequate for photographers

http://www.flyingmeat.com/acorn/

unfocused

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #184 on: May 08, 2013, 10:16:56 AM »

So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne

Umm...Not quite. From the Adobe website: If you purchased an annual individual membership plan and you cancel after the first 30 days but before meeting the 12-month commitment date, you will be charged 50% of the remaining amount left on your contract.

I suppose that would still be cheaper, but not as much of a bargain as you may be thinking.

Now, to respond to some of the recent comments:

I have always been a legal user of Adobe products. To suggest that the complaints that are showing up all across the Internet are primarily from people who purchased the software is ridiculous. As others have pointed out, those who buy pirated software aren't going to be deterred by this. They aren't the ones who complain. It is those of us who play by the rules.

Reminds me of the gun control argument – criminals steal guns and use them illegally, so let's make it hard for persons to own guns legally.

To the statement that Adobe products are professional and you shouldn't be using them if you can't afford to pay whatever they want to charge. Well, I suppose that is their right, but, like Canon, Adobe could not survive on their professional users alone. It is the extensive base of non-professionals who provide the financial support for the company. Photoshop, in particular, has long been marketed to amateurs and hobbyists.

And, even for professionals, I don't know of too many business people who can just arbitrarily pass on every increased cost to their customers. Especially photographers, who are increasingly battling one another for a shrinking pie.

As for the claim that these products have been in development for decades. So what? Also, let's remember that Adobe didn't get to where they are by innovation alone. A large part of their success has come from swallowing up other companies like Aldus and Macromedia.

But, in the end, what I keep coming back to is this: If this is such a great deal for the customer, why is it mandatory?
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RLPhoto

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #185 on: May 08, 2013, 10:30:36 AM »
Adobe CC is equal to a Mercedes dealer only allowing leases. It seems like a deal but your pouring money into something you don't own. If adobe cannot make enough money with the hundreds of thousands of purchases of CS6, they need to blame management for the poor handling of funds.

It's Mercedes saying, "there is too many people stealing our cars, so now we only offer leases to customers."

 ??? What?

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #186 on: May 08, 2013, 10:33:01 AM »
Buy a copy of CS6 and only pay for LR thru CC or if they continue to use retail copy's. you can convert your RAWs to DNGs later on to continue editing in CS6 for years.

That's my plan anyway.

No upgrades, no new features, ... imagine being stuck on CS(1) or earlier.  Would you be happy?

You talking to someone who's be using CS3 extended, and found little need to upgrade until now.

That's six years, now imagine if I had to pay 6 years of CC. That's a rip off.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 10:34:56 AM by RLPhoto »

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Re: Alternatives to Adobe Software
« Reply #186 on: May 08, 2013, 10:33:01 AM »

awinphoto

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #187 on: May 08, 2013, 10:41:38 AM »
The mandatory move to CC subscription licensing only affects products in the current "CS6" range. Bundled products without a CS6 badge (including Lightroom and Acrobat, plus all the "Elements" versions) will continue to be available under perpetual licenses as they are now.

All paid CC members will have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select older versions of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided “as is” and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms.

Who are you? Adobe rep? Is that official info?


Yes it's official info - I'm an ACP, we speak to the user community on behalf of Adobe but we're not sales reps.

Please read the CC FAQ at http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.htm (it's being updated with new items regularly, including my two points above).

To touch on pricing, as Tom Hogarty said last week, Adobe are looking at how their product offers can best be tailored to suit photographers. That may mean in future there are 'pick-n-mix' bundles at different price points - but it's very early days. As I'm sure you appreciate, feedback is not something Adobe are short of this week  ;)

The position on Lightroom is a little more complex than Photoshop, as Lr is a bundle product (it doesn't sync release dates with CS, this time it's a coincidence). All existing perpetual licenses for Lr4 and earlier will continue to work, perpetual licenses for Lr5 will go on sale when the public beta ends, and Lr5 will be rolled out to existing Creative Cloud and new CC subscribers just as Lr4 was. The only significant difference is that boxed copies are not available - All Adobe software is download-only as of this month, so you buy a serial number (from Adobe's store or through the normal retail networks like Amazon) and download the installer from Adobe's CDN. Of course you can burn it to disc as a backup if you want.

In future there may well be times when new features appear in the CC-bundled version of Lr which aren't yet in the perpetual version, because Cloud subscribers get new features quicker (as SOX doesn't apply).

The questions about Web connectivity seem to have been resolved; to summarize - CC normally pings the activation server once every 30 days. If you don't have connectivity it will run a grace period of another 30 days, then revert to trial mode (which then runs for 30 days) - this gives 99 full days of work before the apps refuse to open. Customers have been asking about how to install CC on firewalled machines or how to work for more than 99 days in remote locations, there will be clarification on that shortly.


So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne


Nope... with your account, they issue a license code, much like any current adobe product... you cancel your account, the code is canceled, and any further access is canceled without that code being active... so otherwise it wont work beyond that point.
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Maui5150

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #188 on: May 08, 2013, 10:56:01 AM »
So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne

My understanding is that SOME of the archive software will be available, not all, and since you are not really getting a serial number, your account is maintained through your USER PROFILE.  So when you go through the Adope Cash Cow, the software you download is designed to "call the mother ship" every month and check if you have paid your bill.  You cancel, it may run for a month, but eventually it will fail,.

I can envision hackers doing cracks that either intercept the calls, or remove this from the software, and all and all it just makes upgrading more of a pain.

cayenne

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #189 on: May 08, 2013, 11:57:41 AM »


So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne

Nope... with your account, they issue a license code, much like any current adobe product... you cancel your account, the code is canceled, and any further access is canceled without that code being active... so otherwise it wont work beyond that point.

But wait, current CS6 doesn't phone home, right?
I was assuming that the 'archived' old versions they spoke about, would be stand alone CS6...
So, it sounds to me like you subscribe for a year, you can get the CC for a year, BUT you can also download CS6 (maybe the Production suite?), and have that as a stand alone download.

So, you have that, complete your year CC, and still have CS6 standalone you downloaded, which doesn't phone home...that you can use to your hearts desire?

Of course, they haven't said which legacy apps they'll have for this, but it sounds to me like you can get the old non-phone home versions of things you can download and use, they'll be unsupported, but if you got the CS6 Suite for the year of CC price, at the end of the year, you could quite and end up with CS6 suite for less than what it costs now?

cayenne

thepancakeman

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #190 on: May 08, 2013, 12:14:51 PM »
If you are just a photographer and not in multimedia which I find hard to believe,

I think that about sums up the depth of your perception capabilities which puts the rest of the post in an appropriate context.

TBH I feel most of the people who are complaining are not current subscribers to CS anyway and get it some how under the rug... For a pro it is bread and butter and it pays for itself, its a small price to pay.

Right, so all the professionals are using warez versions of software.


Its like getting a car on PP you pay for the usage then dont have to worry about residuals and depreciation because the package is better value for people who USE it.

Yup, some people lease cars and it makes sense.  But know what?  Lots of people still prefer to purchase and own cars even with all that evil depreciation, etc.

The IF statement whether you quit and then you have nothing for your money, well as a pro why would you quit?

You're right, people never change jobs or retire but want to still enjoy their hobby or use it as a part time income.  C'mon folks, either you're all in or you're out!  </sarcasm>


The CS suite has been in development for 20 years. I don't see anything coming to market at the same scale and quality any time soon.

Others have adequately addressed this piece of ridiculousness.

PS is a pro application with pro prices... people seem to forget that, its not the go to app for any old john doe, it never has been its just been made available by piracy.

So it's okay for amateurs to own $3500 (or even $7000) cameras, but a $600 software package is only for pros and us non-pros clearly can't afford it and must pirate it?  You really have some strange views of the world my friend.

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #191 on: May 08, 2013, 12:25:46 PM »


So, if I read your quoted part correctly...

I could join CC paid....download the archived version (current version?) of CS6, which would run stand alone, not requiring CC account, and then quit and still have CS6 which would run indefinitely?

If so, that sounds like a bit of a bargain...?

cayenne

Nope... with your account, they issue a license code, much like any current adobe product... you cancel your account, the code is canceled, and any further access is canceled without that code being active... so otherwise it wont work beyond that point.

But wait, current CS6 doesn't phone home, right?
I was assuming that the 'archived' old versions they spoke about, would be stand alone CS6...
So, it sounds to me like you subscribe for a year, you can get the CC for a year, BUT you can also download CS6 (maybe the Production suite?), and have that as a stand alone download.

So, you have that, complete your year CC, and still have CS6 standalone you downloaded, which doesn't phone home...that you can use to your hearts desire?

Of course, they haven't said which legacy apps they'll have for this, but it sounds to me like you can get the old non-phone home versions of things you can download and use, they'll be unsupported, but if you got the CS6 Suite for the year of CC price, at the end of the year, you could quite and end up with CS6 suite for less than what it costs now?

cayenne

It depends... At my home computer I have CS5 stand alone... at my work office I have CS6, but that is through the CC... That is controlled through the adobe device manager... the device manager does the phone home stuff...  So yeah...  If we were to stop paying the CC i'm fairly sure eventually I would lose CS6
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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #192 on: May 08, 2013, 01:16:45 PM »
It will be interesting to see how adobe develops PSE.  if PSE is really an photographer's version of PS,perhaps PSE & LR will be a solution

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #192 on: May 08, 2013, 01:16:45 PM »

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #193 on: May 08, 2013, 02:00:39 PM »
In future there may well be times when new features appear in the CC-bundled version of Lr which aren't yet in the perpetual version, because Cloud subscribers get new features quicker (as SOX doesn't apply).

So how is that you say you can't continue CC and perpetual versions of programs because the code maintenance is too tricky but now you are actually splitting LR into CC and perpetual?

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The biggest problem with Adobe Creative Cloud
« Reply #194 on: May 08, 2013, 02:03:59 PM »
There are many things to be liked about Adobe creative cloud. But one thing I hate is that there is no exit at all. If for some reason you decide you can't justify $50/month or if Adobe raises prices later, once you stop paying adobe, you can't even open your files it seems! The is freaking horrible if true. There is a more detailed analysis at http://learningcameras.com/tips/5-all/142-adobe-creative-cloud-the-future-is-now-the-present
We will see if Adobe responds but right it doesn't look good. Although now that they have basically canceled the stand alone seats, what choice do we have. We are all going to be moving to the cloud out of lack of options but Adobe will likely see the influx as positive reinforcement and will change nothing. Adobe needs to come out with a free reader program like the article says or else I don't know how I can keep using it.

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The biggest problem with Adobe Creative Cloud
« Reply #194 on: May 08, 2013, 02:03:59 PM »