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Author Topic: *UPDATE* This & That  (Read 17912 times)

dilbert

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2011, 07:41:18 AM »
What if the 5D Mark3 never appears and we get a 3D (next year) and a 6D this year?

And if the 3D moves up in terms of what it offers photographers and gets all of the hyped up video (even 3D video!) and the 6D becomes the FF DSLR "that also does video"?

Of course all of those 5D Mark2 owners that feel like their camera is linked to their ego will be suddenly overcome with waves on insecurity because a "lower model" camera will be better than theirs and will cry out in shame at how could Canon do this to them. Diddums.
That wouldn't happen. If a more advanced model comes out called the 3D, and a 5DII beating "FF DLSR that also does video" is released then why would Canon released it as a 6D and discontinue the 5D line? The makes no sense from their past naming patterns and no sense from a marketing perspective.

Why not?

It would allow them to make the 3D more expensive than the 5D and the 6D cheaper.

There's no rule anywhere that a product line needs to live forever.

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2011, 07:41:18 AM »

amarlez

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2011, 09:32:35 AM »
Quote
There's no rule anywhere that a product line needs to live forever.

True, but from a marketing standpoint, a 5D mark III would make more sense than a 3D. I think anyone thinking about a $2000-$3000 camera would know that a 3D doesn't mean a gimmicky camera that would shoot in 3D, but the 5D line has been one of Canon's most successful lines. If the 6D exists, I would even think they would want to milk the 5D name for all it's worth — call it the "5D Mark III" and call the photo version something like the "5Ds Mark III."

pedro

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2011, 09:51:54 AM »
5DsIII - where can I put my order? ...;-) good point. agreed.
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ChrisP

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2011, 10:04:20 AM »
Just wild guessing...

What if the following will be announced in August:


Perhaps a 6D will be a sort of updated 7D with an APS-H sensor
This could fill the gap from the 1D mkIV if that is retired.
(Why would Canon make an upgrade of 5D mkII and give it a less prestigious model number)

Then the 1D line could fusion into a new 1Ds fullframe.


This way there would be space in the model numbers for an upgraded 5D mkII next year.



I personally would not want a APS-H camera, and I actually thought the APS-H sensor size was to be retired until seeing this 6D indication. Actually I am quite confused with the 6D model number.

KrisU

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2011, 02:02:14 PM »
FYI, Canon refurbished 5DII are back in stock for $1999:
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_214217_-1


c-law

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2011, 03:46:05 PM »
What if the 5D Mark3 never appears and we get a 3D (next year) and a 6D this year?

And if the 3D moves up in terms of what it offers photographers and gets all of the hyped up video (even 3D video!) and the 6D becomes the FF DSLR "that also does video"?

Of course all of those 5D Mark2 owners that feel like their camera is linked to their ego will be suddenly overcome with waves on insecurity because a "lower model" camera will be better than theirs and will cry out in shame at how could Canon do this to them. Diddums.
That wouldn't happen. If a more advanced model comes out called the 3D, and a 5DII beating "FF DLSR that also does video" is released then why would Canon released it as a 6D and discontinue the 5D line? The makes no sense from their past naming patterns and no sense from a marketing perspective.

Why not?

It would allow them to make the 3D more expensive than the 5D and the 6D cheaper.

There's no rule anywhere that a product line needs to live forever.
Why would Canon sell a camera that was better than a 5D, under a name that loses the 5D's brand awareness, for cheaper than they could sell it for if it was the 5D?

I suppose you could argue that if they lower the price enough that moving more units will make them more money in the end but that hasn't ever seemed to be Canon's strategy for these things and shifting units never seemed to be a problem with the 5D line.

I'm not saying that Canon have a rule that stops them from doing certain things, I am just saying that I very much doubt that they would act in a way that would lose them potential profit in exchange for no discernable upside.


Also, I do not buy the idea that the name 6D would be used to bring the model into line with the 60D/600D. Even if it were announced this month and not in Q1 2012 then those models would still likely be updated and refreshed with a new model number which would leave the line-up as 6D/70D/650D. The fact they are on different product cycles means that Canon aren't likely to try and sync up the names as doing so would make sense for 18 months at the most if you did it at the same time.

Chris
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Edwin Herdman

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2011, 03:56:43 PM »
Canon are probably avoiding naming cameras 3D / 4D unless they can somehow meaningfully riff on the dimensional associations of such nomenclature... ;)  2D, 3D, and even 4D seem off for this reason.  I think that a 6D is possible, even as a new positioning of the 5D line, but that's maybe a bit much.  Fragmenting product lines only makes much sense at the bottom end where subtle changes between bodies to capture sales for $100 more or less makes sense because the engineering cost is completely submerged by the materials savings and the volume.  There's a lot of 5D bodies (both marks) out there floating around, but I start to wonder whether people who are buying $2500 cameras really need more compromises set in their face in the functioning of their product for the possible savings of a bit of money.

The "video focused versus stills focused" angle many have been reading still seems premature to me.  A better stills-heritage video camera would still be better served with a transformation further from the EOS line, with different branding to suit its new posturing closer to Canon's traditional video and camcorder products, not to mention better handling for video.

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2011, 03:56:43 PM »

Rocky

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2011, 04:02:12 PM »
Why would Canon sell a camera that was better than a 5D, under a name that loses the 5D's brand awareness, for cheaper than they could sell it for if it was the 5D?


Chris
Canon has already done it with the 60D. The 60D has less feature than the 50D and lose the metal body at the same time.  Logically, 60D is supposed to have more feature and a step up from 50D.  60D basically has changed  the tradition and linage of the XXD. Now 60D has been nicknamed "Super Rebel".

c-law

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2011, 04:13:12 PM »
Why would Canon sell a camera that was better than a 5D, under a name that loses the 5D's brand awareness, for cheaper than they could sell it for if it was the 5D?


Chris
Canon has already done it with the 60D. The 60D has less feature than the 50D and lose the metal body at the same time.  Logically, 60D is supposed to have more feature and a step up from 50D.  60D basically has changed  the tradition and linage of the XXD. Now 60D has been nicknamed "Super Rebel".
If Canon were to repeat that then they would release it as a 5D Mark III but give it less features (more realistically some less features while some improvements) than the 5D Mark II.

In fact, that is the opposite of what we are talking about. Changing the model concept/position without changing the name. We are talking about changing the name without changing the concept and position of the camera (position meaning in terms of features, not branding).

Chris
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Edwin Herdman

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2011, 04:50:17 PM »
Canon has already done it with the 60D. The 60D has less feature than the 50D and lose the metal body at the same time.  Logically, 60D is supposed to have more feature and a step up from 50D.  60D basically has changed  the tradition and linage of the XXD. Now 60D has been nicknamed "Super Rebel".
"Less feature" on the 60D is very nearly a matter of interpretation.  It doesn't have microadjust (important to be sure and rather inexcusable to lose on a camera of this rank) and, almost unimportantly, the magnesium has been replaced by polycarbonate, glass fiber, and aluminum.  (Moving from aluminum to carbon fiber in tripods is one thing, but in camera bodies going to aluminum seems minimally important, as aluminum is still plenty good as a heatsink.)  It also loses one frame per second shooting speed, going from 6.3 FPS to 5.3, and the control wheel.  That is really about it on the negative side.

The 60D "has more feature" than the 50D in every other meaningful way.  Each little point, taken individually, is small, but taken together they lead to a camera that really is a replacement for the 50D, even if Canon has been careful not to position it that way (that's what the 7D is for).  When the 60D gets its own replacement, the new camera will probably be an unambiguous upgrade from the 50D in all areas but a few specifics to annoy the most finicky of purists.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 04:52:46 PM by Edwin Herdman »

AG

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2011, 10:16:21 PM »
Quote
Also, I do not buy the idea that the name 6D would be used to bring the model into line with the 60D/600D. Even if it were announced this month and not in Q1 2012 then those models would still likely be updated and refreshed with a new model number which would leave the line-up as 6D/70D/650D. The fact they are on different product cycles means that Canon aren't likely to try and sync up the names as doing so would make sense for 18 months at the most if you did it at the same time.

Chris

This is going on the tradition that they are going to stick with the naming conventions that we are used too.

Whats to say the next 60D replacement isn't called the 61D or 65D?

Im basing this on the premise that they are using the 6 series as the video focused models.

With the economy at the moment and the way companies are seeming to streamline their products into particular focused lines, Canon may shock us all.

Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

Rocky

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2011, 10:24:36 PM »
Canon has already done it with the 60D. The 60D has less feature than the 50D and lose the metal body at the same time.  Logically, 60D is supposed to have more feature and a step up from 50D.  60D basically has changed  the tradition and linage of the XXD. Now 60D has been nicknamed "Super Rebel".
"Less feature" on the 60D is very nearly a matter of interpretation.  It doesn't have microadjust (important to be sure and rather inexcusable to lose on a camera of this rank) and, almost unimportantly, the magnesium has been replaced by polycarbonate, glass fiber, and aluminum.  (Moving from aluminum to carbon fiber in tripods is one thing, but in camera bodies going to aluminum seems minimally important, as aluminum is still plenty good as a heatsink.)  It also loses one frame per second shooting speed, going from 6.3 FPS to 5.3, and the control wheel.  That is really about it on the negative side.

The 60D "has more feature" than the 50D in every other meaningful way.  Each little point, taken individually, is small, but taken together they lead to a camera that really is a replacement for the 50D, even if Canon has been careful not to position it that way (that's what the 7D is for).  When the 60D gets its own replacement, the new camera will probably be an unambiguous upgrade from the 50D in all areas but a few specifics to annoy the most finicky of purists.
You have listed a few  thing that the 50D has is missing on the 60D.  but you cannot even list anything that the 60D is better than the 50D. I would like to know. May I just list two? It it the tilting screen and the sensor has been changed from 15 MP to 18 MP. By the way, 60D does have dual control wheels.  However the 60D does not have a standard joystick  and the top LCD pannel has less information than the 50D.

c-law

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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2011, 06:08:42 AM »
Quote
Also, I do not buy the idea that the name 6D would be used to bring the model into line with the 60D/600D. Even if it were announced this month and not in Q1 2012 then those models would still likely be updated and refreshed with a new model number which would leave the line-up as 6D/70D/650D. The fact they are on different product cycles means that Canon aren't likely to try and sync up the names as doing so would make sense for 18 months at the most if you did it at the same time.

Chris

This is going on the tradition that they are going to stick with the naming conventions that we are used too.

Whats to say the next 60D replacement isn't called the 61D or 65D?

Im basing this on the premise that they are using the 6 series as the video focused models.

With the economy at the moment and the way companies are seeming to streamline their products into particular focused lines, Canon may shock us all.
OK, I guess that is possible. I just don't think it'll happen.

Chris
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Re: *UPDATE* This & That
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2011, 06:08:42 AM »