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Author Topic: Wrong Photography Ethics?  (Read 27918 times)

sanj

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2013, 11:32:47 AM »
I so want to comment and discuss so many of the posts in this thread but currently struggling with time. Shooting a feature and it requires 15 hours of my time. The heat is killing. But I will do when I can.

Will quickly say now: Image manipulation is part of the game - done in camera or in post.

Am attaching a photo I took on vacation with my 12 year old. There is no post and it was done in-camera. When I showed it to my 12 it daughter on the lcd of the camera, she said "All photographers are LIARS."

Even a kid can see that. Yes, I am slowly but surely getting convinced that ALL photographs are MANIPULATION. Perhaps I am being too quick in thinking like that...?

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #75 on: May 10, 2013, 11:32:47 AM »

sanj

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #76 on: May 10, 2013, 12:21:17 PM »
Hobbyshooter: Nothing like this being MY thread. It is for all of us to learn and express. :)
Regards!

jimjamesjimmy

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #77 on: May 10, 2013, 12:28:32 PM »
isnt exposure time, or aperture just a manipulation of the to be recorded image?  a traditional school dark room is just a basic form of photoshop!

a jpeg is also just a manipulated image aswell! a true purist will do those old school trad victorian type photos where the image is done once and once only,  and  these  are usually awesome and a lot more interesting than a converted raw digitial picture.

RLPhoto

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2013, 12:32:49 PM »
I find nothing wrong with these before and afters here.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/10/aesthetics-versus-truth

It's when you start adding elements not in the original capture, It's no longer photography.
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gferdinandsen

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2013, 01:27:18 PM »

It's when you start adding elements not in the original capture, It's no longer photography.

I could not agree more, adding to the image changes it to photographic art; however, subtracting (the corner of a building, a flying bird, contrails, et cetera) is perfectly acceptable.  Obviously anything you can do it a wet darkroom, you can 'legally' do the same in photoshop.
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thepancakeman

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2013, 02:26:14 PM »

It's when you start adding elements not in the original capture, It's no longer photography.

I could not agree more, adding to the image changes it to photographic art; however, subtracting (the corner of a building, a flying bird, contrails, et cetera) is perfectly acceptable.  Obviously anything you can do it a wet darkroom, you can 'legally' do the same in photoshop.

So I can take a nice portrait shot and delete the everything but the eyes, it's okay?  Or do I have to run that by the edit police to determine what is deletable and what isn't?

BTW, by deleting ANYTHING you are adding as well--you are adding space or order or isolation, etc.  Like the construction crane behind the building example--that's not reflecting reality, it's portraying an enhanced reality that is meets the photographer's tastes. 

 Even just enhancing contrast is a change to reality, yet so many of you are saying "deviations from reality that meet my arbitrary criteria are okay, but everything else is taboo."  That's a bit egotistical, don't ya think?   ???

sdsr

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2013, 02:26:24 PM »
I find nothing wrong with these before and afters here.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/10/aesthetics-versus-truth

It's when you start adding elements not in the original capture, It's no longer photography.


If you're going to take that view, then I guess the question becomes "what's an element?"  It seems to me that a heck of a lot has been added to the first photo, including colors and perceived light.  Why aren't they elements?

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2013, 02:26:24 PM »

sdsr

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2013, 02:30:39 PM »

It's when you start adding elements not in the original capture, It's no longer photography.

I could not agree more, adding to the image changes it to photographic art; however, subtracting (the corner of a building, a flying bird, contrails, et cetera) is perfectly acceptable.  Obviously anything you can do it a wet darkroom, you can 'legally' do the same in photoshop.

On the off-chance your comments aren't tongue-in-cheek, what's the (relevant) difference between adding a flying bird and subtracting a flying bird? (They're both additions anyway.) And why is it obvious that the ethics of all of this are defined by what can be done in a wet darkroom?

woollybear

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2013, 03:35:55 PM »
Most of us are not forensic photographers who shoot crime scenes and dead bodies ... photography for me is a passionate hobby and an art form ... I'm no good at drawing or painting or sculpting  ... the closest I can hope to get to any decent art form is making images and manipulating them the way I like ... I am happy to manipulate and change images so they are pleasing and/or compelling to look at ... even if it mans adding a lighting bolt or removing an ugly wire or add an extra cheetah or make a fat person look a little slimmer (in fact I routinely use liquify tool to make people, with a big paunch, look a little slimmer) and as a photographer it gives me great joy to see people feel good about themselves when they look at the images I've manipulated ... I don't give a damn if the so called "purists" think it is unethical ... I thank God everyday that photography is my hobby and that it gives me a chance to look for beauty in the world around me and if I can't see it, I'll just manipulate that scene in photoshop, and I don't need to worry about being unethical coz I am not a forensic photographer shooting crime scenes and dead bodies.

Couldn't agree more...only thing I would add to crime scenes and dead bodies is news.

awinphoto

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2013, 04:15:56 PM »

It's when you start adding elements not in the original capture, It's no longer photography.

I could not agree more, adding to the image changes it to photographic art; however, subtracting (the corner of a building, a flying bird, contrails, et cetera) is perfectly acceptable.  Obviously anything you can do it a wet darkroom, you can 'legally' do the same in photoshop.

So I can take a nice portrait shot and delete the everything but the eyes, it's okay?  Or do I have to run that by the edit police to determine what is deletable and what isn't?

BTW, by deleting ANYTHING you are adding as well--you are adding space or order or isolation, etc.  Like the construction crane behind the building example--that's not reflecting reality, it's portraying an enhanced reality that is meets the photographer's tastes. 

 Even just enhancing contrast is a change to reality, yet so many of you are saying "deviations from reality that meet my arbitrary criteria are okay, but everything else is taboo."  That's a bit egotistical, don't ya think?   ???

Good lord... photography is an art form... altered or non altered, it's an art form... In the film days did you not think they spliced film?  overlapped film?  Added density filters, dodge, burn, enhance, multiple exposure... I would hate to hear someone say ansel adams work wasn't photography because of all the manipulation he did in the darkroom... It is what it is... No one is going to look at a print ANY LESS if it was heavily manipulated vs OOC.  Then you have photographers like Sal Cincotta and Dave Cross shoot some pictures just for post production if needed.  I doubt any of their clients who are spending thousands for his services think his work isn't art/photography. 
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Mick

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2013, 06:54:12 PM »
My view is quite a simple one. If you look at National Geographic magazine you will see photographs beyond what we see on here. Yet,they were all taken in camera. If such can be taken in camera, why do you need a computer to make your images look better when they dont?
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Hobby Shooter

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2013, 08:16:20 PM »
i was recently on safari and two american tourists were treating the locals like part of the trip. elephants.lions...african children. i found it very uncomfortable.  would you drive around your home town taking photos of young girls?  or the guy who works in the local shop?   i find the whole photography tourist thing very odd sometimes, and god knows what they think of us.
That is a side track, but a very good one. It's not only about photography but ethics in general. I live in a very poor country and it's really painful to see sometimes the way tourists treat the locals here. They will sometimes actually feed poor street children while taking pictures of them. It's repulsive. There is a big difference in taking pictures of locals and exploit locals.

Don Haines

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2013, 09:23:31 PM »
i was recently on safari and two american tourists were treating the locals like part of the trip. elephants.lions...african children. i found it very uncomfortable.  would you drive around your home town taking photos of young girls?  or the guy who works in the local shop?   i find the whole photography tourist thing very odd sometimes, and god knows what they think of us.

Interesting insight.... Treat the locals with respect, talk to them, and both have a far better experience.... and who knows what will come of it.... including photographic oportunities that only the locals know about....
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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2013, 09:23:31 PM »

jdramirez

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2013, 11:52:51 PM »
I'm ok with it.  It's your image... and sometimes bumping saturation and contrast make for a better image.  You didn't remarkably change the context of the image, putting a tornado in the background or a jet plane about to crash...
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Hobby Shooter

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2013, 12:04:20 AM »
Hobbyshooter: Nothing like this being MY thread. It is for all of us to learn and express. :)
Regards!
Thanks Sanj  :D

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Re: Wrong Photography Ethics?
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2013, 12:04:20 AM »