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Author Topic: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!  (Read 18284 times)

wickidwombat

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2013, 11:43:38 PM »
WTF? my posts were deleted AGAIN!

There was nothing wrong with the second lot (there was no reference to fascists or nazis)

oh except I wasn't gushing over how I love the new Adobe subscription model
please this level of sensorship is retarded cant he mod that removed my posts
please PM me with a reasonable reason why?

seriously is Adobe paying CR to crush the negative feedback or what?
 ::)

Not sure what "second lot" you're referring to but the post you made last night deserved to be deleted and if I was the mod I would have banned you from the site.

Seriously? thats a bit extreme
I find fascists offensive too hence the reason i refered to Adobe as such

I found your post offensive.  Your posts are often edgy and blunt but not offensive, they sometime make me chuckle just a little bit and that brightens my day.  But your comment last night was out of place and unnecessarily associated Adobe with the behavior of a very extreme group.

I'm sorry for causing you upset and I agree the first post that had that reference probably crossed the line
As i said i find the extreme group offensive too and hence drawing the parallel as I do find Adobes actions seriously offensive. Perhaps I was a bit flipant with that usage.

However the replacement post had nothing even remotely along this line the most severe word i used in that was "dictatorial" which is a significant step down. I also mentioned that I felt the Adobe net minions roaming the web were treating their customers intelligence with disrespect. I am genuinely at a loss as to why the replacement post would be removed except that it's sensorship (or thought police as unfocused put it) which ironically enough is moving closer to the previously mentioned extreme groups tactics of simply removing any vocal opposition.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2013, 11:43:38 PM »

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2013, 12:08:47 AM »
Don't worry Wickid, my post was deleted as well.

Maybe, there is a mystery Adobe rep who is now an admin slowly convincing the mods to charge us $10/month to access C.R. online, otherwise our subscription will expire and we will be unable to access our old posts, or gain anything useful from the forum unless we re-subscribe.

Seriously though, I too am known to be a bit facetious at time, but this is a serious issue facing photographers, and forums like this help us discuss and even put our thoughts into words for the world to hear. I am not excusing the original post, nor was I even there to read it prior to being deleted, but I found no offence in Wickid's second posting.

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Meh

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2013, 12:24:55 AM »
I'm sorry for causing you upset and I agree the first post that had that reference probably crossed the line
As i said i find the extreme group offensive too and hence drawing the parallel as I do find Adobes actions seriously offensive. Perhaps I was a bit flipant with that usage.

However the replacement post had nothing even remotely along this line the most severe word i used in that was "dictatorial" which is a significant step down. I also mentioned that I felt the Adobe net minions roaming the web were treating their customers intelligence with disrespect. I am genuinely at a loss as to why the replacement post would be removed except that it's sensorship (or thought police as unfocused put it) which ironically enough is moving closer to the previously mentioned extreme groups tactics of simply removing any vocal opposition.

All of yours and my posts in that exchange were deleted I presume because they were connected.

This is just me, but I don't like the name calling even if it's directed at a faceless corporation because it taints the whole discussion.  If you don't like their new model just say so and say what you don't like.  Why compare them, or anyone, to anything at all.  The one thing I have little patience for on this site (and to be fair, the CR members are quite good compared to other forums) is personal attacks, insults, hate, bullying, etc.

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2013, 12:55:43 AM »
Seriously though, I too am known to be a bit facetious at time, but this is a serious issue facing photographers, and forums like this help us discuss and even put our thoughts into words for the world to hear.

It is, but let's have the discussion without any disrespect to anyone and not even towards Adobe.  If you want to make your case to them it's best done respectfully and with an open mind.

Even something as simple as saying Adobe is insulting customer's intelligence is an insult to anyone who likes their new model...  if I happen to like it then I must have limited intelligence.  That may seem overly sensitive but it's not... if you want me to listen to and respect your opinions then shouldn't you do the same.  If I and 500,000 other people are signed up and paying for CC then perhaps there is some value in it, unless we are all just stupid minions.

Some of you are furious about the pricing, the fact that you don't "own" the software (you never did anyway), the fact that it checks in once a month to confirm the license, etc. etc. and those are valid concerns.  But let's say PS was only $5 per month... would all the other issues be acceptable or tolerable?  If so, then this is just a pricing issue.

Someone said that 20,000 people have signed the petition... 20k is a big number but it's less than 5% of the people who have signed up (assuming Adobe is being honest about that number, which they probably are since it would be a disclosure item in the financial audit).  Those 20,000 people are not wrong, they may genuinely not like the new model, but neither are the people who like the new model.

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2013, 01:23:00 AM »
Seriously though, I too am known to be a bit facetious at time, but this is a serious issue facing photographers, and forums like this help us discuss and even put our thoughts into words for the world to hear.

It is, but let's have the discussion without any disrespect to anyone and not even towards Adobe.  If you want to make your case to them it's best done respectfully and with an open mind.

Even something as simple as saying Adobe is insulting customer's intelligence is an insult to anyone who likes their new model...  if I happen to like it then I must have limited intelligence.  That may seem overly sensitive but it's not... if you want me to listen to and respect your opinions then shouldn't you do the same.  If I and 500,000 other people are signed up and paying for CC then perhaps there is some value in it, unless we are all just stupid minions.

Some of you are furious about the pricing, the fact that you don't "own" the software (you never did anyway), the fact that it checks in once a month to confirm the license, etc. etc. and those are valid concerns.  But let's say PS was only $5 per month... would all the other issues be acceptable or tolerable?  If so, then this is just a pricing issue.

Someone said that 20,000 people have signed the petition... 20k is a big number but it's less than 5% of the people who have signed up (assuming Adobe is being honest about that number, which they probably are since it would be a disclosure item in the financial audit).  Those 20,000 people are not wrong, they may genuinely not like the new model, but neither are the people who like the new model.

Meh,

To my knowledge, I have yet to insult your intelligence, but I do see your point. We all need to go back to being friends. I can potentially see the value in the new model and yet it is no where close to being as valuable to me as I'm sure the Adobe crew has hoped. For my business, this simply is not my cup of tea. I am certainly glad that you and others have shown your support for their product as I believe it is easier to push against the new format than it is to defend it. I, for one, simply hope that we can all get what we desire whether it is a box, digital download, or subscription plan. If that were to happen, I think the rough seas would settle. I'm not holding my breath for that to occur, but we can certainly all have our dreams.

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2013, 01:48:28 AM »
Meh,

To my knowledge, I have yet to insult your intelligence, but I do see your point. We all need to go back to being friends. I can potentially see the value in the new model and yet it is no where close to being as valuable to me as I'm sure the Adobe crew has hoped. For my business, this simply is not my cup of tea. I am certainly glad that you and others have shown your support for their product as I believe it is easier to push against the new format than it is to defend it. I, for one, simply hope that we can all get what we desire whether it is a box, digital download, or subscription plan. If that were to happen, I think the rough seas would settle. I'm not holding my breath for that to occur, but we can certainly all have our dreams.

-Tabor

No worries, I was not referring to anything you said... it has been said by others in several different ways, some subtle and some direct, that Adobe must think customers' are stupid to think this subscription model is a good idea.  I'm not quoting anyone directly.

I think you're right that Adobe will not back down and offer boxed versions.  They've made a pretty substantial business decision and did so only after seeing the success of the subscription model over the past year.  Yet they are going to keep selling CS6 for a while and that shows they were sensitive to the issue before they announced CCl.  What they might do to appease the folks that don't like the CC model is support CS6 longer and they might reduce the pricing for single applications or offer a PS+LR package since that is the combo most photographers use.

wickidwombat

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2013, 02:12:54 AM »
Even something as simple as saying Adobe is insulting customer's intelligence is an insult to anyone who likes their new model...  if I happen to like it then I must have limited intelligence.  That may seem overly sensitive but it's not... if you want me to listen to and respect your opinions then shouldn't you do the same.  If I and 500,000 other people are signed up and paying for CC then perhaps there is some value in it, unless we are all just stupid minions.


Ah Ok I thought i had clarified in a previously deleted post
I said Adobe is insulting it's customers intelligence I dont believe that this statement means that anyone that likes the new model is of substandard intelligence.
My intent was that they are insulting our intelligence by giving one option of one model and shoving it down our throats simply because they have a monopoly and are in a position to do so. The insult to customers intelligence in this action is if they believe people that dont like / agree with the new system will put up with it like good little sheep. (please note that I am by no way of this statement implying that you or any CC adopter is a sheep, merely that this is how adobe want us all to be and to follow along with what they want.)

If some people like the subscription model and are happy with it then thats great for them
However Adobe should offer the choice.

I personally prefer to look at an upgrade version and see if its worthwhile for me for example there is no way in hell I will ever run windows 8 on a computer I think windows 7 may possibly be the last microsoft OS i even bother with. I dont like metro and dont like the changes luckily microsoft dont have the market dominance they once had and apple provide a very competative competition these days
another example office 365? no chance i will bother with this there is nothing office 2011 cant do that i require so i'll keep using that as its a perpertual licence. This is sort of how I see CS6 too however the gotcha that Adobe have and use to really hold their customers by the proverbial balls is the camera raw support for new cameras, this is a sneaky enough method of ensuring people upgrade and I've never liked it but put up with it.

I prefer to be able to have a look at the next version and the extra features it offers and see if i will have any use for those or if the current platform i'm using will continue to be suficient.

Yes i find the pricing model of CC offensive, they are using the good ol bait and switch lower prices up front with a substantial increase once everyone is hooked on their crack they are pedaling to use another metaphore. but worse still once they have you hooked they are free to change the goal posts when, and however they please this is the insidious part of the whole CC environment.

part of the problem is the packages they offer are so full of bloat that I wont use, I really dont want to be paying monthly for all that  I dont care if some package i dont use gets some wonderful extra feature yet I still have to pay for that as well as the 10 other programs i dont use. Perhaps a lower price for each component and the ability to totally customise your own CC package might be more appealing to me and most likely many others however point 1 still applies that you are at their mercy for whatever they want to do pricewise in the future. For example someone might want to use only photoshop, premier pro and Adobe Acrobat Pro and all the other stuff is fluff filling up my hard drive that i dont use and yet still have to pay for, this does not seem fair to the customer.

Having a copy of the software that you pay for, licence and use for whatever duration you wish for that up front cost does not carry this risk, sure there are some semantics regarding if you actually own the software or not due to licence terms and conditions however this is largely irrelevant in a practical sense

Even though Adobe say you can still buy CS6 they have completely removed the ability to purchase this from their website. The implementation of the CC like a Guillotine coming down on the customer is another problem I have with how Adobe went about this. Seriously do their marketing people really think this is going to make people happy? I really think their market dominance has led them to a level of Hubris that is going to alienate alot of customers. Market dominance has a habit of doing this to any big company, I'll again use microsoft as an example with their laughable initial licence implementation on windows 8 which they have since backpeddled on very fast. Or how about apples refusal to incorporate usb host technology into Ios products iphones, ipads etc when android have had this for some time now.

There is a point where a customer will accept being pushed around by a company to and the company continues to push but eventually there is a tipping point where the level of outright disprespect of the customer by the company goes too far and the customer eventually votes with their money and has good serious look at the competition It took me a solid 2 years to transition from windows to mac but I did it because i had enough of the microsfot gouging this is where Adobe are now.

Perhaps the Adobe net reps (I have previously refered to them as minions I still believe this is a valid term as they provide little constructive help other than trotting out the party line) perhaps they could take the negative feedback to Adobe who might look at fixing the model and at least go back to selling standalone purchases to those customers that prefer that model.

Lastly the issue of piracy, it is utterly laughable if Adobe think this model is even going to cause software pirates and hackers to even break stride, I am certain that hacked versions will be out in very little time.
so those that want to use pirate software will actually be inconvenienced the least. Its the users that want to do the right thing by Adobe and buy the software that are getting the roughest deal and the most disrespect from the company.


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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2013, 02:12:54 AM »

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2013, 02:38:53 AM »
Even something as simple as saying Adobe is insulting customer's intelligence is an insult to anyone who likes their new model...  if I happen to like it then I must have limited intelligence.  That may seem overly sensitive but it's not... if you want me to listen to and respect your opinions then shouldn't you do the same.  If I and 500,000 other people are signed up and paying for CC then perhaps there is some value in it, unless we are all just stupid minions.


Ah Ok I thought i had clarified in a previously deleted post
I said Adobe is insulting it's customers intelligence I dont believe that this statement means that anyone that likes the new model is of substandard intelligence.
My intent was that they are insulting our intelligence by giving one option of one model and shoving it down our throats simply because they have a monopoly and are in a position to do so. The insult to customers intelligence in this action is if they believe people that dont like / agree with the new system will put up with it like good little sheep. (please note that I am by no way of this statement implying that you or any CC adopter is a sheep, merely that this is how adobe want us all to be and to follow along with what they want.)

If some people like the subscription model and are happy with it then thats great for them
However Adobe should offer the choice.

I personally prefer to look at an upgrade version and see if its worthwhile for me for example there is no way in hell I will ever run windows 8 on a computer I think windows 7 may possibly be the last microsoft OS i even bother with. I dont like metro and dont like the changes luckily microsoft dont have the market dominance they once had and apple provide a very competative competition these days
another example office 365? no chance i will bother with this there is nothing office 2011 cant do that i require so i'll keep using that as its a perpertual licence. This is sort of how I see CS6 too however the gotcha that Adobe have and use to really hold their customers by the proverbial balls is the camera raw support for new cameras, this is a sneaky enough method of ensuring people upgrade and I've never liked it but put up with it.

I prefer to be able to have a look at the next version and the extra features it offers and see if i will have any use for those or if the current platform i'm using will continue to be suficient.

Yes i find the pricing model of CC offensive, they are using the good ol bait and switch lower prices up front with a substantial increase once everyone is hooked on their crack they are pedaling to use another metaphore. but worse still once they have you hooked they are free to change the goal posts when, and however they please this is the insidious part of the whole CC environment.

part of the problem is the packages they offer are so full of bloat that I wont use, I really dont want to be paying monthly for all that  I dont care if some package i dont use gets some wonderful extra feature yet I still have to pay for that as well as the 10 other programs i dont use. Perhaps a lower price for each component and the ability to totally customise your own CC package might be more appealing to me and most likely many others however point 1 still applies that you are at their mercy for whatever they want to do pricewise in the future. For example someone might want to use only photoshop, premier pro and Adobe Acrobat Pro and all the other stuff is fluff filling up my hard drive that i dont use and yet still have to pay for, this does not seem fair to the customer.

Having a copy of the software that you pay for, licence and use for whatever duration you wish for that up front cost does not carry this risk, sure there are some semantics regarding if you actually own the software or not due to licence terms and conditions however this is largely irrelevant in a practical sense

Even though Adobe say you can still buy CS6 they have completely removed the ability to purchase this from their website. The implementation of the CC like a Guillotine coming down on the customer is another problem I have with how Adobe went about this. Seriously do their marketing people really think this is going to make people happy? I really think their market dominance has led them to a level of Hubris that is going to alienate alot of customers. Market dominance has a habit of doing this to any big company, I'll again use microsoft as an example with their laughable initial licence implementation on windows 8 which they have since backpeddled on very fast. Or how about apples refusal to incorporate usb host technology into Ios products iphones, ipads etc when android have had this for some time now.

There is a point where a customer will accept being pushed around by a company to and the company continues to push but eventually there is a tipping point where the level of outright disprespect of the customer by the company goes too far and the customer eventually votes with their money and has good serious look at the competition It took me a solid 2 years to transition from windows to mac but I did it because i had enough of the microsfot gouging this is where Adobe are now.

Perhaps the Adobe net reps (I have previously refered to them as minions I still believe this is a valid term as they provide little constructive help other than trotting out the party line) perhaps they could take the negative feedback to Adobe who might look at fixing the model and at least go back to selling standalone purchases to those customers that prefer that model.

Lastly the issue of piracy, it is utterly laughable if Adobe think this model is even going to cause software pirates and hackers to even break stride, I am certain that hacked versions will be out in very little time.
so those that want to use pirate software will actually be inconvenienced the least. Its the users that want to do the right thing by Adobe and buy the software that are getting the roughest deal and the most disrespect from the company.

New Adobe moderator takes this down in 3... 2... 1...  ::)
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wickidwombat

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2013, 02:52:24 AM »
they better not there is nothing insulting or offensive in that one
infact taking it down would validate the inital rant post that was taken down that got Meh all upset :P
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2013, 11:48:02 AM »
The "Eliminate the mandatory Creative Cloud subscription model petition" now has over 29,500 supporters

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #71 on: June 07, 2013, 12:44:39 PM »
My 2cents...

I hated this idea at first for many of the reasons brought up here.  But, I am kind of coming around in thinking about it.  I may have to go and thoroughly read the terms of service.  But - I am currently on CS5, I have not felt the push to upgrade to CS6 because the bulk of what I do is in Lightroom (I use PS for the fine tuning side of things that lightroom just can't do).  So for a user like me, PS is just a fine editing plugin for lightroom - and yeah that's definitely not worth forking over the dough to upgrade unless there is some substantial new tool I feel I need to have.

So, for someone like me, this new CC may actually not be a bad thing.  Unless there's something I am missing, I can now have the latest capabilites without having such a large up front price.  As a wedding/portrait shooter in an area that has very defined seasons - meaning my need for PS would be from May-November - at $20 a month that would mean I'd be paying about $140  (maybe more if I need it in the winter).  I have to check the fine print to see if there are penalties for letting your subscription lapse, or, some kind of silly startup fee.  This may be a loophole that they find a way to fill by implementing penalties, but, it may be awesome for the occasional user because they can now have access to $600 software for $20 (as long as they don't mind just using it for a month. 

I do hope they don't go cloud with lightroom.  We shall see what happens I guess.  If enough people boycott CC, then it won't take adobe too long to change their tune...

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #72 on: June 07, 2013, 01:45:52 PM »
My 2cents...

I hated this idea at first for many of the reasons brought up here.  But, I am kind of coming around in thinking about it.  I may have to go and thoroughly read the terms of service.  But - I am currently on CS5, I have not felt the push to upgrade to CS6 because the bulk of what I do is in Lightroom (I use PS for the fine tuning side of things that lightroom just can't do).  So for a user like me, PS is just a fine editing plugin for lightroom - and yeah that's definitely not worth forking over the dough to upgrade unless there is some substantial new tool I feel I need to have.

So, for someone like me, this new CC may actually not be a bad thing.  Unless there's something I am missing, I can now have the latest capabilites without having such a large up front price.  As a wedding/portrait shooter in an area that has very defined seasons - meaning my need for PS would be from May-November - at $20 a month that would mean I'd be paying about $140  (maybe more if I need it in the winter).  I have to check the fine print to see if there are penalties for letting your subscription lapse, or, some kind of silly startup fee.  This may be a loophole that they find a way to fill by implementing penalties, but, it may be awesome for the occasional user because they can now have access to $600 software for $20 (as long as they don't mind just using it for a month. 

I do hope they don't go cloud with lightroom.  We shall see what happens I guess.  If enough people boycott CC, then it won't take adobe too long to change their tune...

It looks like the month-to-month plan is $30 per application, so more like $210 for May to November. You could buy the annual plan and cancel, but there are cancellation charges after the first 30 days.

Also, if you don't have an older version of Photoshop already on your computer, you won't be able to access or edit your files during those down months.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #72 on: June 07, 2013, 01:45:52 PM »

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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #73 on: June 07, 2013, 01:49:32 PM »
My 2cents...

I hated this idea at first for many of the reasons brought up here.  But, I am kind of coming around in thinking about it.  I may have to go and thoroughly read the terms of service.  But - I am currently on CS5, I have not felt the push to upgrade to CS6 because the bulk of what I do is in Lightroom (I use PS for the fine tuning side of things that lightroom just can't do).  So for a user like me, PS is just a fine editing plugin for lightroom - and yeah that's definitely not worth forking over the dough to upgrade unless there is some substantial new tool I feel I need to have.

So, for someone like me, this new CC may actually not be a bad thing.  Unless there's something I am missing, I can now have the latest capabilites without having such a large up front price.  As a wedding/portrait shooter in an area that has very defined seasons - meaning my need for PS would be from May-November - at $20 a month that would mean I'd be paying about $140  (maybe more if I need it in the winter).  I have to check the fine print to see if there are penalties for letting your subscription lapse, or, some kind of silly startup fee.  This may be a loophole that they find a way to fill by implementing penalties, but, it may be awesome for the occasional user because they can now have access to $600 software for $20 (as long as they don't mind just using it for a month. 

I do hope they don't go cloud with lightroom.  We shall see what happens I guess.  If enough people boycott CC, then it won't take adobe too long to change their tune...

It looks like the month-to-month plan is $30 per application, so more like $210 for May to November. You could buy the annual plan and cancel, but there are cancellation charges after the first 30 days.

Also, if you don't have an older version of Photoshop already on your computer, you won't be able to access or edit your files during those down months.

As far as I understand - that's just for the PSD files...anything saved locally in TIFF or Jpeg is still accessible? 
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2013, 02:00:51 PM »
You are correct. I was thinking of being able to edit the PSD files.
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Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2013, 02:00:51 PM »