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Author Topic: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%  (Read 7875 times)

tpatana

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2013, 04:22:00 AM »
Isn't it funny how when someone is trying to make a point they only partly understand that they come out with a long post. ;D

Maybe you should explain to the Canon engineers why they were wrong to expect this, I'm sure they would benefit from your knowledge. (while your at it you might like to get this format programmers to add a "Sarcasm" emoticon for me)

I'm a physicist working on cell phone field, so it's my nature trying to dig the root cause for what's happening inside the devices. Battery being at 50% shouldn't be causing anything unless the design is really bad. So it makes me wonder why that could happen, and with the current draws of a camera it makes me wonder even more. But I don't know cameras good enough, so that's why I was hoping if someone else could fill in the information I don't know about.

And I'd be happy to work for Canon, that'd combine both my expertise and the hobby I love.

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2013, 04:22:00 AM »

Skulker

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2013, 04:35:20 AM »
Isn't it funny how when someone is trying to make a point they only partly understand that they come out with a long post. ;D

Maybe you should explain to the Canon engineers why they were wrong to expect this, I'm sure they would benefit from your knowledge. (while your at it you might like to get this format programmers to add a "Sarcasm" emoticon for me)

I'm a physicist working on cell phone field, so it's my nature trying to dig the root cause for what's happening inside the devices. Battery being at 50% shouldn't be causing anything unless the design is really bad. So it makes me wonder why that could happen, and with the current draws of a camera it makes me wonder even more. But I don't know cameras good enough, so that's why I was hoping if someone else could fill in the information I don't know about.

And I'd be happy to work for Canon, that'd combine both my expertise and the hobby I love.

Since you know so much more than them and no doubt would help prevent them producing "design that is really bad" they should be really appreciative that you would be prepared to give them the benefit for your extensive skill set.

The bit that really surprises me is that with this vast knowledge base why you "wonder" and then "wonder more" when you already know it all.

tpatana

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2013, 05:40:19 AM »
Isn't it funny how when someone is trying to make a point they only partly understand that they come out with a long post. ;D

Maybe you should explain to the Canon engineers why they were wrong to expect this, I'm sure they would benefit from your knowledge. (while your at it you might like to get this format programmers to add a "Sarcasm" emoticon for me)

I'm a physicist working on cell phone field, so it's my nature trying to dig the root cause for what's happening inside the devices. Battery being at 50% shouldn't be causing anything unless the design is really bad. So it makes me wonder why that could happen, and with the current draws of a camera it makes me wonder even more. But I don't know cameras good enough, so that's why I was hoping if someone else could fill in the information I don't know about.

And I'd be happy to work for Canon, that'd combine both my expertise and the hobby I love.

Since you know so much more than them and no doubt would help prevent them producing "design that is really bad" they should be really appreciative that you would be prepared to give them the benefit for your extensive skill set.

The bit that really surprises me is that with this vast knowledge base why you "wonder" and then "wonder more" when you already know it all.

Huh, what? You got upset because I said I didn't believe your guess?

I was just telling my knowledge about how batteries work on cell phones, and tried to compare how it should be in cameras if the design was done as I think it should be done, and was asking if someone knows more details. No reason to get upset, at no point I even said I know how it is, I was just making guesses and assumptions how it might be.

RGF

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2013, 06:19:10 AM »
Never noticed this, i'll check my 5D3 to see how noticeable it is.   I seldom do large bursts with the 5D3 except for HDR -which is why I may have not noticed it

Timothy_Bruce

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2013, 06:26:35 AM »
Does someone have a 5D3 with BG and can test if it slows down with alkalines or NI-MH accus inside the BG ?

Brymills

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2013, 08:52:49 AM »
I wonder how the new firmware affects this when using 3rd party batteries?  From reports I've read elsewhere the battery always reports 100% when using non Canon batteries regardless of the actual charge level.  Sounds like 3rd party batteries could be the way forward!  ;D

Skulker

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2013, 02:47:51 PM »

Huh, what? You got upset because I said I didn't believe your guess?

I was just telling my knowledge about how batteries work on cell phones, and tried to compare how it should be in cameras if the design was done as I think it should be done, and was asking if someone knows more details. No reason to get upset, at no point I even said I know how it is, I was just making guesses and assumptions how it might be.

I'm not upset, notice the smiley face? that's a bit of a clue that I was laughing.

I didn't make a guess, I said read the manual, were the behaviour is explained to be normal and expected.

You did say that the design was bad thus clearly implying that you knew better. Then you tried to justify what even you called "guesses and assumptions", you tried to say how knowledgeable you are. In my experience people who really know what they are talking about would want a lot more detail before condemning the design as "bad."

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2013, 02:47:51 PM »

Skulker

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2013, 02:48:56 PM »
I wonder how the new firmware affects this when using 3rd party batteries?  From reports I've read elsewhere the battery always reports 100% when using non Canon batteries regardless of the actual charge level.  Sounds like 3rd party batteries could be the way forward!  ;D

Good point  8)

phoizen

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2013, 01:43:24 AM »
Tested on my friends 5dMark3 yesterday with my 49% drained battery, and the FPS was normal and fast. Showed no drop even when we let the battery drain down to 15%. Going to run a shoot tomorrow with the AA battery pack and some eneloops.

Thanks for the info about letting the battery's drain! Totally did not know that.

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2013, 02:36:39 AM »
When a battery goes flat it has less power, so it is reasonable to expect things to slow down. To maintain the same speed on less voltage you would need more current, that could give serious problems. Sounds like a safety feature to me. Bigger batteries would mean a heavier camera.

I don't buy that explanation. I mean, if the battery is flat, yes, but 50% is still plenty of power.

I don't say the phenomenon don't exist, because that I can believe. But it being direct affect from the battery level, I wouldn't think so. I've worked plenty on the cell phone designs, and the batteries we have usually work around same characteristics, ~1500-2000 mAh Li-ions. Cell phones are 3.7V, and 5D3 at 7.2V, but that's just because they use 2 cells in series.

Until about <25% of the capacity, the voltage level still stays considerably high, and there's no big voltage dip due to bigger current draws either. And cell phones draw >1A when they get power hungry. I don't know the 5D3 power draw when everything is active (taking photo, DIGIC crunching data as fast as possible, memory cards writing, mirror and shutter going, etc.) but I'd be surprised if the peaks are more than 0.2A (not including the LCD operation, that could take 0.1-0.2A alone). (if someone knows real current draws, please enlighten me).

Assuming that's true, which I don't know, the battery level could go down to <10% and still the voltage dips, caused by the current draw, would be minimal.

I haven't seen the schematics for Canon, but I'd be also really surprised if they don't have a regulator at the input. In my world that would be just poor design. If they do have regulator, it would eliminate the actual battery voltage completely at the camera end, and until battery is really down to <1%, the camera would receive proper voltage/current. Again, if someone knows the design or has the schematics, I'd be happy to learn the details.

I have the 5D3 with grip, and 2 Canon batteries. Occasionally I'm down to ~50% on long day, but I don't remember seeing this phenomenon, then again, I wasn't looking for it. Next time I'll try and see.

Isn't it funny how when someone is trying to make a point they only partly understand that they come out with a long post. ;D

Maybe you should explain to the Canon engineers why they were wrong to expect this, I'm sure they would benefit from your knowledge. (while your at it you might like to get this format programmers to add a "Sarcasm" emoticon for me)
Some of us on this forum don't have English as a second language, I am sure it's fun for you to joke about it. For some of us we end up using more words to try to explain our point. Feel free to laugh at it though.

Skulker

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2013, 06:54:34 PM »

Some of us on this forum don't have English as a second language, I am sure it's fun for you to joke about it. For some of us we end up using more words to try to explain our point. Feel free to laugh at it though.

The funny bit is not the poor language skills. You have made a nice attempt at diversion by implying that I am being nasty. For your information I am quiet dyslexic and would never mock someones attempts to communicate. I don't think anything I have said can be reasonably interpreted as mocking anyone's language skills.

FYI I find it strange and amusing that people get into such convoluted attempts to justify what amounts to guess work. The OP posed a question about reduced performance on reduced battery charge. While saying that he could not find any information about this issue. Yet it is in the manual that this will happen, then people start saying how bad it is and others try to say it should be better.  Why on earth would someone ask if there is any information available and then ignore the information available?. If someone claims to be an expert why would they ignore the information available and start making guesses and assumptions? That's what I find funny.

tpatana

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2013, 07:04:13 PM »

Some of us on this forum don't have English as a second language, I am sure it's fun for you to joke about it. For some of us we end up using more words to try to explain our point. Feel free to laugh at it though.

The funny bit is not the poor language skills. You have made a nice attempt at diversion by implying that I am being nasty. For your information I am quiet dyslexic and would never mock someones attempts to communicate. I don't think anything I have said can be reasonably interpreted as mocking anyone's language skills.

FYI I find it strange and amusing that people get into such convoluted attempts to justify what amounts to guess work. The OP posed a question about reduced performance on reduced battery charge. While saying that he could not find any information about this issue. Yet it is in the manual that this will happen, then people start saying how bad it is and others try to say it should be better.  Why on earth would someone ask if there is any information available and then ignore the information available?. If someone claims to be an expert why would they ignore the information available and start making guesses and assumptions? That's what I find funny.

If you cared to read my full post instead of choking on the first sentence where I said I didn't buy your explanation, maybe you would have understood the point I was trying to make.

I wasn't saying that the slowing doesn't happen, I was just trying to figure out what is happening inside the camera to cause it. And I was saying that in cell phone world not using a regulator would be bad (actually impossible) design, and I was wondering if camera could work without one.

So you though it'd be funny to make sarcastic remark that if I'm so clever I should go help Canon design better cameras. Real funny.

Actually English is my second language, Swedish third, German fourth and Japanese fifth. Also took some studies in other languages, (in descending order of skills) Korean, Spanish, Chinese and French.

So sometimes I need to write it bit longer so I don't get misunderstood. But still I can't help it if someone deliberately skips the points I make and hangs on to the few sentences they wanted to misunderstand.

RustyTheGeek

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2013, 07:42:56 PM »
I wonder how the new firmware affects this when using 3rd party batteries?  From reports I've read elsewhere the battery always reports 100% when using non Canon batteries regardless of the actual charge level.  Sounds like 3rd party batteries could be the way forward!  ;D

After I applied the latest April firmware update, the 5D3 now behaves just like the 6D.  (Canon Battery Nazi - "No battery info for YOU!")  In other words, it chastises you when you power on the camera about the battery not being Genuine OEM and then doesn't report any info about the battery except that it's there.  So I guess we will have to wait a little while for all the 3rd Party battery makers to hack their battery firmwares to fool the newer cameras.  Ugh.
Yes, but what would  surapon  say ??  :D

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2013, 07:42:56 PM »

luciolepri

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2013, 09:48:52 PM »
Since the batteries are lithium, they should keep their voltage at 50% charge, so I don't get it too why the camera shouldn't work at its best in that condition. In fact, I have one original and three third party batteries and so far I never noticed any frame rate drop, nor I've ever heard my colleagues talking about this issue. The weird thing is that the "issue" is reported in the manual and so it is not an issue, but the normal behaviour of the camera. A behaviour that my camera doesn't respect... odd.
With my third party batteries, my MKIII works just fine, it shows a message the first time I turn it on, saying that the battery can't be recognized, but after that it's just like using the original batteries. Except that the original batteries last less.

phoizen

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 10:25:26 PM »
Just wanted to report. Used one body today with standard eneloop AA batteries at a 50% overall charge. Shot for 5 hours and battery level dropped to 20%, however FPS did not drop in performance.

Not sure what the manual says about that one.

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Re: 5dm3 - FPS Drops when battery below 50%
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 10:25:26 PM »