New AF Technology Coming in July? [CR1]

[n_a_c]

The D5200 ... the 7100 ...  Canon must compete in focus ability at the $750 and $1200 price points.  So I expect the 70D will have 19 or more focus points - and be similar in ability to the current 7D.  But I also expect that the 7D mark II focus ability will be far superior to the current model, possibly with 61 focus points like the 5D mark III.

Nope, because that will make the 70D a possible "upgrade" for 7D users. Canon does not want this, as they would prefer the current 7D owners to upgrade to the 7DII, priced just a tad above the 6D. In this way they maximize profits. Remember that Canon sells DSLR cameras based on (a) their (mostly) excellent lenses and (b) saturation marketing; not on the ability of the camera itself.

Being as the 60D far outsells the 7D, one would expect that the 70D will far outsell the 7D2, let alone the 7D2. They are aimed at different users and the big concern at Canon is more likely keeping sales away from Nikon or Sony. If the 70D is superior to a 7D, how many 7D users will "upgrade" to a 70D and how many will wait for the 7D2. I can't see Canon crippling the future for a brief bump as new technologies roll out.

As much as we wish to believe that it's the high end cameras that drive innovation and performance, it's the sales of low end cameras that keeps Canon profitable and how many times have we seen new tech introduced in lower models.... like Digic6 in a p/s..... They certainly didn't wait for it to be in a 1Dx......

I agree.  Canon needs to win sales against Sony & Nikon.  With regards to focus ability at least - they clearly have the technology to BOTH make the 70D have similar ability to the current 7D, AND make the 7D mark II much better than the current model.  I'm sure they will.  If they left the 70D with say only 11 focus points, then there is a huge gap in their offerings – with T5i and 70D crowded on the bottom, and the improved 7D mark II way above them.  Sales of the 70D would be lost to either the cheaper and practically equivalent T5i (or T6i, etc)  and the Nikon D7100.  There would be little to differentiate between the T5i and the 70D.  It also makes sense from how the current models are currently priced – the current 7D is priced at $1300 – just about where the 70D will be, and the 60D is priced at less than the T5i.  Note that I don't think the 70D buffer will be as good as the 7D, since Nikon is not competing on buffer and ability to shoot RAW.  But I do think the number of focus points and general focus ability will be.

Anyway, only time will tell. 

[Sella174]

... and how many times have we seen new tech introduced in lower models ...

Exactly why, in my opinion, the 100D is an outdated joke.

... they clearly have the technology to BOTH make the 70D have similar ability to the current 7D, AND make the 7D mark II much better than the current model. ... It also makes sense from how the current models are currently priced – the current 7D is priced at $1300 – just about where the 70D will be ...

Let's say the 70D has the same good AF system of the 7D, but improved sensor (MP, DR, etc.) and - as you said - priced the same as the current 7D. How many (recreational/non-pro) 7D users will consider the 70D a viable upgrade, instead of the (much) higher priced 7DII? Canon doesn't want that to happen ... we must always upgrade, not downgrade.

[Marsu42]

Let's say the 70D has the same good AF system of the 7D

I wouldn't call the 7d af good for every application - it's even somewhat less precise than the 60d, though of course the 7d af point spread, number and fw customization help immensely for tracking.

Any af system in a 2013 camera should be at *least* up to 6d precision, or better 5d3 level to be able to use the enhanced precision of the latest canon lenses (see lensrentals reviews on that).

[Sella174]

Any af system in a 2013 camera should be at *least* up to 6d precision, or better 5d3 level to be able to use the enhanced precision of the latest canon lenses (see lensrentals reviews on that).

Precisely, and anything less is, in my opinion, an insult.

[sanj]

If the 7d2 focusing is not at par with 5d3 I will switch brands.

I do not want to switch.

[verysimplejason]

If the 7d2 focusing is not at par with 5d3 I will switch brands.

I do not want to switch.

You'll never find AF as good as 5D3 in other brands except those at almost the same price level or higher.  D600? Nope. A99? Yup, might be a tad better.  D800? Nope. Wishful thinking 7D2, might be but don't expect too much.  It's Canon after all.

[bycostello]

wow... hard to see how it could be better...

[Shield]

If the 7d2 focusing is not at par with 5d3 I will switch brands.

I do not want to switch.

You'll never find AF as good as 5D3 in other brands except those at almost the same price level or higher.  D600? Nope. A99? Yup, might be a tad better.  D800? Nope. Wishful thinking 7D2, might be but don't expect too much.  It's Canon after all.

I owned the a99 when it was first released - there's no way the AF is anywhere near the 5d3 with all those AF points crammed in the middle, let alone the AF tracking.  They're not even in the same league; Canon's AI servo vs. Sony's "focus on the background" AF.  Just no comparison.

[dlleno]

 I'm grabbing popcorn and the latest "10 commandments of CR..."

[neuroanatomist]

Well, obviously the 5DIII has better AF than the D800 because the 5DIII sells much better than the D800.

Would you like artificial butter flavoring with that popcorn? 

[dlleno]

Well, obviously the 5DIII has better AF than the D800 because the 5DIII sells much better than the D800.

Would you like artificial butter flavoring with that popcorn? 

yes, but the D800 must have the better AF because it was "based on" the D4, and we all know that anything "based on" the D4 must be accepted a priori as superior to everything.

  What we need is the Dxo score for AF systems. that would be the artificial flavor

[Krob78]

Well, obviously the 5DIII has better AF than the D800 because the 5DIII sells much better than the D800.

Would you like artificial butter flavoring with that popcorn? 

yes, but the D800 must have the better AF because it was "based on" the D4, and we all know that anything "based on" the D4 must be accepted a priori as superior to everything.

  What we need is the Dxo score for AF systems. that would be the artificial flavor

yes, but the D800 must have the better AF because it was "based on" the D4, and we all know that anything "based on" the D4 must be accepted a priori as superior to everything.

Except the 5D Mark III AF was "based on" the 1Dx...

[dlleno]

Except the 5D Mark III AF was "based on" the 1Dx...

of course;  everyone knows that, and I was trying to avoid the corresponding illogical comparison of The 1DX and the D4 in this context:  To point out that the 5D3 AF is based on the 1DX contriubtes the same as saying  the D800 AF is based on the D4:  Nothing. 

[coreyhkh]

I think going foreword all the AF will have the same standard I cant see them getting worse,
even the 7D has pretty amazing AF.

[Kelt0901]

FYI

Having been employed for 20 years by a major conservative high tech Japanese company, one needs to understand the concept of KAIZEN in Japanese culture.

“Kaizen is a system of continuous improvement in quality, technology, processes, company culture, productivity, safety and leadership.
Kaizen was created in Japan following World War II. The word Kaizen means "continuous improvement". It comes from the Japanese words 改 ("kai") which means "change" or "to correct" and 善 ("zen") which means "good".

Kaizen is a system that involves every employee - from upper management to the cleaning crew. Everyone is encouraged to come up with small improvement suggestions on a regular basis. This is not a once a month or once a year activity. It is continuous. Japanese companies, such as Toyota and Canon, a total of 60 to 70 suggestions per employee per year are written down, shared and implemented.

In most cases these are not ideas for major changes. Kaizen is based on making little changes on a regular basis: always improving productivity, safety and effectiveness while reducing waste.

Western philosophy may be summarized as, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." The Kaizen philosophy is to "do it better, make it better, improve it even if it isn't broken, because if we don't, we can't compete with those who do." ” By Steve Stephenson

The problem with KAIZEN is, when your competitors make a quantum leap in technology and/ or quality control, there is a catch up period and at times it never happens.

Sounds to me like the CANON culture.