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Author Topic: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.  (Read 22414 times)

KrisU

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2011, 05:40:55 PM »
With four card slots they could implement RAID 5. ;D

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2011, 05:40:55 PM »

c-law

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Re: Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2011, 05:45:31 PM »
To me, it does not make sense to announce a pro body first and then a prosumer one. They will easily get increased sales if they announce the prosumer one first followed by the pro body late this year/early next year. 
See, to me it seems more likely to be the other way round. If they release the 5DIII first then even if it is very well differentiated from the new 1DsIV (or whatever it'll be called), we won't know that as it won't be announced yet. So we will have a lot of pros who are eager for a new camera and being tempted by the 5D that now blows the 1DsIII out of the water (in some respects, MP and new features being the most prominent).

You are going to get pros buying a 5D and then regretting it later but not being able to afford/justify a 1Ds with a 5D first. If you release the 1D first all the pros buy it as it is the best most modern camera available to them. Then when the 5D is released, the people who were always too poor to buy the 1Ds will buy that and the people who could afford both will buy it too. The people who could afford one or the other but not both have already bought the 1Ds except the few people who hung around to decide after the newest camera was confirmed but by then they know the 1DV is just around the corner so they'll wait for that and end up mummified infront of a constantly refreshing Canon Rumors page.

Just my opinion but I think it makes sense as a way to preserve the most sales for both systems.

Chris
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fyngyrz

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2011, 05:47:26 PM »
Not looking for megapixels -- 21 is already too many for FF. Huge files, slow transfers, slow processing.

Looking for better low light performance; lower noise; better EVF previewing for longer exposures; GPS; wireless downloading; wireless charging; programmable exposures longer than 30 seconds; Switchable IR filtering (or none... I'd be happy to slap an IR block filter on the lenses when shooting normally.) (C'mon Canon, don't you want to sell a boatload of highly profitable filters???)

You know... things that will actually improve the images and the regimes, and the shooting experience, as opposed to giving us, yet again, an even more detailed view of the flaws in the lenses.

But of course, what we'll GET is... more megapixels. Bigger files. Slower processing. Slower transfers. Oh yeah, and more effort wasted on trying to inappropriately multipurpose these beautiful still cameras into video cameras. And maybe a new battery style so as to obsolete the hugely expensive ones we've already bought. :(

I am *so* tired of "Hey, look more megapixels!" and frankly, I'm not going to buy unless the camera actually performs better. Increases in megapixels work *against* my buy-in. And no, throwing out half  or 3/4ths of the pixels in the camera isn't the right way to go -- the less sensor area involved in taking the shot, the more noise there will be. With a nominally high megapixel camera, you have to take the entire image and then bin the results in order to approach the actual noise reducing effect of larger sensels. So modes like SRAW and SRAW2 don't really help (unless the cameras are modified to do the binning, that would be a useful change.)


rocketdesigner

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Re: Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2011, 06:02:13 PM »
To me, it does not make sense to announce a pro body first and then a prosumer one. They will easily get increased sales if they announce the prosumer one first followed by the pro body late this year/early next year. 

It makes absolute perfect sense to announce the Pro body first...to get it into the hands of the Pro photographers who will be walking advertisements for Canon at next year's Olympics.

dgsphto

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Re: Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2011, 06:07:38 PM »
It makes absolute perfect sense to announce the Pro body first...to get it into the hands of the Pro photographers who will be walking advertisements for Canon at next year's Olympics.

Oh, they will probably have both the bodies available by then allright! It's just the launch and initial avaiability could be staggered by a few months.

dgsphto

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2011, 06:14:40 PM »
Not looking for megapixels -- 21 is already too many for FF. Huge files, slow transfers, slow processing.

But of course, what we'll GET is... more megapixels. Bigger files. Slower processing. Slower transfers. Oh yeah, and more effort wasted on trying to inappropriately multipurpose these beautiful still cameras into video cameras. And maybe a new battery style so as to obsolete the hugely expensive ones we've already bought. :(

I am *so* tired of "Hey, look more megapixels!" and frankly, I'm not going to buy unless the camera actually performs better.

All valid points. Your primary concern seems to be responsiveness.

I think the technology has evolved to a point where it's feasible to have a highly responsive camera even with the high megapixels. Advanced dual processors, better buffer management hardware/firmware, faster storage cards, dual slots, etc. Collectively, all of these should aid in a setup that is just as fast if not faster than the current top notch performers; even with the increased megapixels.

The only real problem with increased megapixels is the pixel density on the sensor and associated increase in noise levels. It would be interesting to see how they address that.

As for your video concerns, I think it only affects the pricing. I see it as a positive because it will definitely change the way memories are captured currently. The still and video coverages for an event are still being seen differently, but some are getting creative and merging the two to create a more immersive experience in revisiting those memories!

dgsphto

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2011, 06:17:04 PM »
With four card slots they could implement RAID 5. ;D

I know you are joking about the raid, but it could really be an option too (that would be customizable by the users).

At the moment, it seems separate file writes though....for ex. Buffer has 30 images in the queue to be written to the cards, it starts writing alternate ones to both the cards parallely. Thus a file resides entirely on one card but the collection of images is split between the multiple cards.

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2011, 06:17:04 PM »

KrisU

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2011, 06:23:33 PM »
With four card slots they could implement RAID 5. ;D

I know you are joking about the raid, but it could really be an option too (that would be customizable by the users).

At the moment, it seems separate file writes though....for ex. Buffer has 30 images in the queue to be written to the cards, it starts writing alternate ones to both the cards parallely. Thus a file resides entirely on one card but the collection of images is split between the multiple cards.

I am only partially joking about RAID.  It certainly solves the data integrity problem (i.e. one card fails, but no images are lost), and it could help alleviate some of the throughput problems (I'm not sure exactly where the bottleneck is, though).

Bob Howland

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Re: Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2011, 06:25:34 PM »
If you release the 1D first all the pros buy it as it is the best most modern camera available to them. Then when the 5D is released, the people who were always too poor to buy the 1Ds will buy that and the people who could afford both will buy it too.

Consider an alternative line of thinking. Canon has already established the precedent that there would be a 5D3 which has the same resolution as a 1Ds4. The professionals' current cameras are presumably still taking pictures so, unless they are losing business because their clients demand the latest and greatest, they don't actually have to buy anything. They can just wait a year for the 5D3 and save themselves some money.

Even if Canon announced that there will be no 5D3, they wouldn't be believed. (Nikonians are still waiting for the D700x and D700s.) Introducing the 5D3 first or simultaneously makes a very public statement about what it is.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 06:30:49 PM by Bob Howland »

dgsphto

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2011, 06:40:15 PM »
With four card slots they could implement RAID 5. ;D

I know you are joking about the raid, but it could really be an option too (that would be customizable by the users).

At the moment, it seems separate file writes though....for ex. Buffer has 30 images in the queue to be written to the cards, it starts writing alternate ones to both the cards parallely. Thus a file resides entirely on one card but the collection of images is split between the multiple cards.

I am only partially joking about RAID.  It certainly solves the data integrity problem (i.e. one card fails, but no images are lost), and it could help alleviate some of the throughput problems (I'm not sure exactly where the bottleneck is, though).

In that case you will have to use the camera as a reader. As you already know, Striped cards will not be read individually. Users will have to chose between speed (buffer writes alternate files to separate cards parallely) or security (same file is written to both the cards).

I think the current more common scheme is Jpeg on 1 and Raw on the other.

JasonM

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Re: Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2011, 06:44:28 PM »
It makes absolute perfect sense to announce the Pro body first...to get it into the hands of the Pro photographers who will be walking advertisements for Canon at next year's Olympics.

Oh, they will probably have both the bodies available by then allright! It's just the launch and initial avaiability could be staggered by a few months.

5D3 (single DIGIC5, 5 fps) and a new FF 1D5 (dual DIGIC5, 9 fps) which will be the single 1D series will be announced together.  7D2 will follow next summer.   All will have lower noise and improved DR.   All will have improved video to satisfy those that want it but still photo features will never be compromised in favor of video in any Canon DSLR.  I have no idea, just throwing it out there.


JasonM

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2011, 06:52:05 PM »


I am only partially joking about RAID.  It certainly solves the data integrity problem (i.e. one card fails, but no images are lost), and it could help alleviate some of the throughput problems (I'm not sure exactly where the bottleneck is, though).

Minimum for RAID5 is only 3 drives but RAID5 schemes have much slower write speeds than single drives.  Also, to take the cards out and read them by a computer you'd also have to have a 3 (or 4) card reader and the order would be important.

ursinus71

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2011, 06:58:15 PM »
Quote
@fyngyrz - Not looking for megapixels -- 21 is already too many for FF. Huge files, slow transfers, slow processing.

You just need a faster computer. 21mp is quite zippy on a fast machine. A fast i7, 16gb ram, fast HDD makes all the difference in the world.

Quote
@fyngyrz - You know... things that will actually improve the images and the regimes, and the shooting experience, as opposed to giving us, yet again, an even more detailed view of the flaws in the lenses.

Sorry, but this is quite ill-informed. A camera like the 5d2 matched up with even a cheap high quality lens like the 85mm f/1.8 yields absolutely stunning image quality. I think your view is based on rhetoric and stereotypes. Go to DXO labs and look at real data, or look at 100% images from large sensor, large mp cameras, shot with good lenses. You're way off base.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 07:02:56 PM by ursinus71 »

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2011, 06:58:15 PM »

c-law

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Re: Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2011, 07:00:11 PM »
If you release the 1D first all the pros buy it as it is the best most modern camera available to them. Then when the 5D is released, the people who were always too poor to buy the 1Ds will buy that and the people who could afford both will buy it too.

Consider an alternative line of thinking. Canon has already established the precedent that there would be a 5D3 which has the same resolution as a 1Ds4. The professionals' current cameras are presumably still taking pictures so, unless they are losing business because their clients demand the latest and greatest, they don't actually have to buy anything. They can just wait a year for the 5D3 and save themselves some money.

Even if Canon announced that there will be no 5D3, they wouldn't be believed. (Nikonians are still waiting for the D700x and D700s.) Introducing the 5D3 first or simultaneously makes a very public statement about what it is.
A good take on the issue. I just hear a lot of complaining that the 1Ds is so old and the 5D is so old that I assume there are people out there with money literally burning a hole in their pockets for new tech right now.

If you're willing to wait and you're in it purely for the MP gain then the 1Ds might not tempt you.

Chris
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 07:40:52 PM by c-law »
Canon 5D MkII, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM, EF 70-200m f/2.8L IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.8 II, 580EX, LP160, a couple of home made macro & pinhole lenses.

KrisU

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2011, 07:03:36 PM »


I am only partially joking about RAID.  It certainly solves the data integrity problem (i.e. one card fails, but no images are lost), and it could help alleviate some of the throughput problems (I'm not sure exactly where the bottleneck is, though).

Minimum for RAID5 is only 3 drives but RAID5 schemes have much slower write speeds than single drives.  Also, to take the cards out and read them by a computer you'd also have to have a 3 (or 4) card reader and the order would be important.

RAID 5 performs a (N-1)x the speed of a single drive, for both read and write.  IOW, with 4 cards, the performance would be 3x that of a single card.  Performance only suffers in the case of a failed card, but that seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. (Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID)

As was already pointed out, the best option for getting the images off is via a cable from the camera to the computer, which does have some disadvantages.

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2011, 07:03:36 PM »