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Author Topic: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.  (Read 32123 times)

JasonM

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2011, 07:25:37 PM »


I am only partially joking about RAID.  It certainly solves the data integrity problem (i.e. one card fails, but no images are lost), and it could help alleviate some of the throughput problems (I'm not sure exactly where the bottleneck is, though).

Minimum for RAID5 is only 3 drives but RAID5 schemes have much slower write speeds than single drives.  Also, to take the cards out and read them by a computer you'd also have to have a 3 (or 4) card reader and the order would be important.

RAID 5 performs a (N-1)x the speed of a single drive, for both read and write.  IOW, with 4 cards, the performance would be 3x that of a single card.  Performance only suffers in the case of a failed card, but that seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. (Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID)

As was already pointed out, the best option for getting the images off is via a cable from the camera to the computer, which does have some disadvantages.

I don't think so... even with the use of dedicated, caching controllers RAID0 doesn't quite get Nx performance increases and without a dedicated hardware RAID controller the "write penalty" of computing and writing the parity bit is large in a RAID5 array.  However, I can agree that the write penalty won't be as big writing large image files sequentially so perhaps I overstated by underlining the word "much".  But anyway, this issue has been debated ad nauseum by DBAs for a decade and there is no way Canon is going to put 3 card slots on any camera.

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2011, 07:25:37 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2011, 07:32:07 PM »
Consider an alternative line of thinking. Canon has already established the precedent that there would be a 5D3 which has the same resolution as a 1Ds4.

Please explain how they established that precedent. The original 5D had lower resolution than the then-current 1Ds model. The 5D Mark II has the same resolution as the current 1Ds model. So, if I flip a coin and it's heads, and the next time it's tails, tails is the precedent, and the third flip will surely be tails? Woah baby, Vegas here I come!  The only 'precedent' I see is that the 5DIII will NOT have *more* resolution than the 1DsIV, and even then, n=2 makes for a pretty flimsy precedent. 
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sarangiman

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2011, 07:48:36 PM »
Quote
I highly doubt they will put Dual Memory slots on the 5D3. That's a feature that will be for the 1D. If they started doing stuff like that, people would have no reason to buy a 1D at all.

And yet the Nikon puts dual card slots even in the lower end D7000...

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2011, 07:49:37 PM »
With four card slots they could implement RAID 5. ;D

3 slots would be all, with four you could have RAID 1+0
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Chewy734

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2011, 07:55:11 PM »
With four card slots they could implement RAID 5. ;D

3 slots would be all, with four you could have RAID 1+0

or RAID 6 ;)

KrisU

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2011, 08:12:20 PM »


I am only partially joking about RAID.  It certainly solves the data integrity problem (i.e. one card fails, but no images are lost), and it could help alleviate some of the throughput problems (I'm not sure exactly where the bottleneck is, though).

Minimum for RAID5 is only 3 drives but RAID5 schemes have much slower write speeds than single drives.  Also, to take the cards out and read them by a computer you'd also have to have a 3 (or 4) card reader and the order would be important.

RAID 5 performs a (N-1)x the speed of a single drive, for both read and write.  IOW, with 4 cards, the performance would be 3x that of a single card.  Performance only suffers in the case of a failed card, but that seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. (Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID)

As was already pointed out, the best option for getting the images off is via a cable from the camera to the computer, which does have some disadvantages.

I don't think so... even with the use of dedicated, caching controllers RAID0 doesn't quite get Nx performance increases and without a dedicated hardware RAID controller the "write penalty" of computing and writing the parity bit is large in a RAID5 array.  However, I can agree that the write penalty won't be as big writing large image files sequentially so perhaps I overstated by underlining the word "much".  But anyway, this issue has been debated ad nauseum by DBAs for a decade and there is no way Canon is going to put 3 card slots on any camera.

I agree that DBAs despise RAID5, and I also agree that we won't being seeing any flavor of RAID in any camera body anytime soon.  :)

Bokehmon

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2011, 09:46:49 PM »
With four card slots they could implement RAID 5. ;D

3 slots would be all, with four you could have RAID 1+0

or RAID 6 ;)

ugh, why not just implement a 1.8inch SSD slot? i'm sure that'll take up less space than the 2 slots on a 1D...

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2011, 09:46:49 PM »

Canihaspicture

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2011, 10:01:33 PM »
Totally agree on the SSD idea... SSDs have faster read/write times than CF.

JasonM

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2011, 10:22:19 PM »
Totally agree on the SSD idea... SSDs have faster read/write times than CF.

Only because they use a SATA interface and I believe that is what CFAST uses... ie. a CF card using a SATA interface.  Could it be, the next cameras from Canon, Nikon will be using next gen memory cards?

Bokehmon

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2011, 11:40:39 PM »
Totally agree on the SSD idea... SSDs have faster read/write times than CF.

Only because they use a SATA interface and I believe that is what CFAST uses... ie. a CF card using a SATA interface.  Could it be, the next cameras from Canon, Nikon will be using next gen memory cards?

Is there even a point? The 100mb/s on the high end sandisks hardly provide any additional performance. The only thing i can think of that would utilize 100mb/s + would be 4K video  ::)

expatinasia

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2011, 11:58:35 PM »
I am surprised that there is so much talk about RAID. I have always thought the reason Nikon offer dual memory slots is primarily for video, and also as a benefit to consumers, as buying 2x32GB is much cheaper than buying one 64GB.

If you are just taking stills, it would be nice to have dual slots but not absolutely necessary. How many times have you had a SD card or such fail? And if you are shooting something important, double/triple back once you have finished.
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JasonM

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2011, 12:28:16 AM »
Totally agree on the SSD idea... SSDs have faster read/write times than CF.

Only because they use a SATA interface and I believe that is what CFAST uses... ie. a CF card using a SATA interface.  Could it be, the next cameras from Canon, Nikon will be using next gen memory cards?

Is there even a point? The 100mb/s on the high end sandisks hardly provide any additional performance. The only thing i can think of that would utilize 100mb/s + would be 4K video  ::)

The thought is, and it could be wrong, that with the next releases using DIGIC5 and over 30MP images writing to the memory card could become a bottleneck.

JasonM

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2011, 12:39:57 AM »
I am surprised that there is so much talk about RAID. I have always thought the reason Nikon offer dual memory slots is primarily for video, and also as a benefit to consumers, as buying 2x32GB is much cheaper than buying one 64GB.

If you are just taking stills, it would be nice to have dual slots but not absolutely necessary. How many times have you had a SD card or such fail? And if you are shooting something important, double/triple back once you have finished.

They don't fail often but they can and for a pro shooting a wedding or sporting event a corrupted memory card would be a disaster.

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2011, 12:39:57 AM »

afira

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2011, 12:44:41 AM »
1D releases are always fourth or first quarter. An announcement in late August = a fourth or first quarter release. Coincides with end of year extra budget spending or budget planning for 2012 for major news agencies and advertising, and as someone mentioned earlier, the Olympics.

1Ds would be my second choice, re-badged as a 3D with heavy video capabilities.

5DMIII in the midyear cycle like the two previous releases for July 2012.

7DII in the midyear cycle in July 2013 for a four year release update. Cheaper 5DMII/III alternative for one year prior to release.

I have no idea where you guys are getting your RAIDX pipe dreams, but I'll take whatever you're having.

sarangiman

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2011, 01:07:38 AM »
In the past 3yrs of shooting digital, I've had one SD card fail completely, & one CompactFlash card start to fail when it gets closer to capacity. And I don't shoot that much. That scares me for Engagement/Wedding shoots. Mirrored slots would be extremely welcome.

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Re: *UPDATED* Big Megapixel Camera Next Week.
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2011, 01:07:38 AM »