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Author Topic: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr  (Read 9937 times)

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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2013, 06:33:07 PM »
Phase ONE 645DF will sync at 1/1600th with FULL FLASH Output.


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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2013, 06:33:07 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2013, 06:40:32 PM »
Phase ONE 645DF will sync at 1/1600th with FULL FLASH Output.

I'd like video proof of that. Not saying it couldn't be done, but as my linked videos illustrate what it says on the box isn't necessarily so, I'd be interested in how they do it and how fast the shutter blades are moving.

Oh, and yet again, what flashes output decent power at T1 times of 1/1600? There is equipment to do this stuff, but if you need it you already understand the issues.
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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2013, 07:29:26 PM »
give it a year or 2 and they'll all be electronic shutters

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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2013, 07:32:19 PM »
What I mean by true sync speed is what everybody understands as a sync speed, that is the entire sensor is unshaded by the shutter curtains for the full duration of the flash exposure, we all understand the black bar we get with focal plane shutters, what nobody espousing the vast superiority of leaf shutters seems to grasp is how they actually work. They open and close and it can take a surprisingly long time for them to do it. They do not expose the frame equally, it just appears that way because the shutter acts as a second aperture, this costs flash power and increases you flash illuminated dof.

Look at these videos and you will understand why the leaf shutter pundits are barking up the wrong tree. http://www.khousen.com/blog/files/Fuji%20X100s%20Shutter%20Speed.html

The only way to get "true" high speed sync is with electronic shutters.

As for the links, as I said earlier, the power output has a huge effect on the T1 and T5 times, the Einstein does so well because it has the same circuitry as our hot shoe strobes, IGBT cut off controllers. But those 1/13,000 exposure times are a 2.5Ws, nine stops down from full power! The $14,000 Profoto set puts out a mighty 4.5Ws.......  If you can light something with 2.5Ws you could be using a $50 285 clone, if you needed 5Ws you could do it with two!

Of course that is a little tongue in cheek, but I just wish people who made silly comments believing in a technology that clearly don't understand it would lighten up.

As for the wonderful liquid images that seem to be the area most often needing very fast flash times, they are not relying on high sync speeds as much as short duration light pops, after all they lower the ambient to not become a factor in the exposure.

The people that need high speed sync are the ones trying to overcome uncontrollable ambient, but again this is often a diversion, after all once you go above sync and min iso you have to increase dof, and that is often not the desired payoff. So you need to use ND filters to control dof and these can control sync speed too.

As I said, one stop of sync speed is very workable, 1/250 for a focal plane shutter at 50 iso is just the same as your expensive leaf shutter equipped lens at 1/500 sync and 100 iso, you'd have to be crazy to pay any money for that non difference.

I think we'll just agree to disagree. I've owned my share of leaf shutters, used them to their advantages, and will now stop discussing the merits of either so that I can get back to what I was doing...shooting. Each tool has it's uses and their times, and I'll go now use mine for what they were intended...

Phase ONE 645DF will sync at 1/1600th with FULL FLASH Output.



I completely forgot about the DF doing 1/1600 with a leaf shutter - a colleague routinely uses his IQ160 to do high sync on a set of Verso's firing about 1/2 power each bound into a single box. They are nice...beautiful studio fashion work with pin-sharp stop motion and aerial ambiance.

Drizzt321

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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2013, 07:37:53 PM »
What I mean by true sync speed is what everybody understands as a sync speed, that is the entire sensor is unshaded by the shutter curtains for the full duration of the flash exposure, we all understand the black bar we get with focal plane shutters, what nobody espousing the vast superiority of leaf shutters seems to grasp is how they actually work. They open and close and it can take a surprisingly long time for them to do it. They do not expose the frame equally, it just appears that way because the shutter acts as a second aperture, this costs flash power and increases you flash illuminated dof.

Look at these videos and you will understand why the leaf shutter pundits are barking up the wrong tree. http://www.khousen.com/blog/files/Fuji%20X100s%20Shutter%20Speed.html

The only way to get "true" high speed sync is with electronic shutters.

As for the links, as I said earlier, the power output has a huge effect on the T1 and T5 times, the Einstein does so well because it has the same circuitry as our hot shoe strobes, IGBT cut off controllers. But those 1/13,000 exposure times are a 2.5Ws, nine stops down from full power! The $14,000 Profoto set puts out a mighty 4.5Ws.......  If you can light something with 2.5Ws you could be using a $50 285 clone, if you needed 5Ws you could do it with two!

Of course that is a little tongue in cheek, but I just wish people who made silly comments believing in a technology that clearly don't understand it would lighten up.

As for the wonderful liquid images that seem to be the area most often needing very fast flash times, they are not relying on high sync speeds as much as short duration light pops, after all they lower the ambient to not become a factor in the exposure.

The people that need high speed sync are the ones trying to overcome uncontrollable ambient, but again this is often a diversion, after all once you go above sync and min iso you have to increase dof, and that is often not the desired payoff. So you need to use ND filters to control dof and these can control sync speed too.

As I said, one stop of sync speed is very workable, 1/250 for a focal plane shutter at 50 iso is just the same as your expensive leaf shutter equipped lens at 1/500 sync and 100 iso, you'd have to be crazy to pay any money for that non difference.

Reading the Strobist, he's shooting fine at 1/1000 wide open. Yes, the physics and design of leaf shutters can sometimes limit the actual sync-speed, but it will definitely depend on which lens/body and which shutters are used. For the example from the Strobist, that's still 2 stops of light compared to a 1/250s focal plane shutter.

Also there are some videos at http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/Leaf-Shutter-Lenses/LS-In-action.aspx which help show some of the places where they need the fast leaf shutters along with strobes that sync at those speeds.
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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2013, 07:59:32 PM »
My point was not there is no need or point to high end gear, there is a point and need. I actually own MF and large format gear with leaf shutters. I 100% agree that there are shots taken with MF digital that can't be shot with 135 format gear, that is a fact despite some posters stated belief that gear is just a matter of convenience and any shot could be shot with any gear given time and thought!

My point was unless you actually understand how it works and the limitations it has then jumping on the term "leaf shutter" as a seemingly all encompassing panacea of creative sync work is inaccurate. Thinking that a leaf shutter in an EOS lens would actually give you much additional creativity is fraught with errors, to realise any of those additional capabilities you would need more than just a lens with a leaf shutter. As for an EOS lens with a leaf shutter that gave you 1/500 instead of 1/250 sync, well there is a very good reason that hasn't been made (though you could easily use a current lens with a convertor), the cost would not be worth the effort.
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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2013, 08:03:12 PM »
My point was not there is no need or point to high end gear, there is a point and need. I actually own MF and large format gear with leaf shutters. I 100% agree that there are shots taken with MF digital that can't be shot with 135 format gear, that is a fact despite some posters stated belief that gear is just a matter of convenience and any shot could be shot with any gear given time and thought!

My point was unless you actually understand how it works and the limitations it has then jumping on the term "leaf shutter" as a seemingly all encompassing panacea of creative sync work is inaccurate. Thinking that a leaf shutter in an EOS lens would actually give you much additional creativity is fraught with errors, to realise any of those additional capabilities you would need more than just a lens with a leaf shutter. As for an EOS lens with a leaf shutter that gave you 1/500 instead of 1/250 sync, well there is a very good reason that hasn't been made (though you could easily use a current lens with a convertor), the cost would not be worth the effort.

Ah, my reading of your postings were "just use 35mm focal plane since leaf shutters are overrated".

I definitely agree that just "leaf shutter" doesn't automatically solve all problems, and is just one piece (albeit maybe very important) in capturing what you want. It would be quite interested to see someone put together an adapter that will do that, but that's more of a "that's cool" than useful except for a limited cases.
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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2013, 08:03:12 PM »

RLPhoto

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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2013, 10:28:19 AM »
some posters stated belief that gear is just a matter of convenience and any shot could be shot with any gear given time and thought!

U mad bro? Don't be hurt because other's here also called you out on the convenient applications of a leaf shutter.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 10:29:50 AM by RLPhoto »

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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2013, 11:44:31 AM »
some posters stated belief that gear is just a matter of convenience and any shot could be shot with any gear given time and thought!

U mad bro? Don't be hurt because other's here also called you out on the convenient applications of a leaf shutter.

As privatebydesign correctly pointed out, there are applications that would be served by having a leaf shutter, but none that wouldn't be BETTER served by having an electronic shutter.  You get all the benefits (but instead of only 1-2 stops gain, you're bound only by flash duration), without all the caveats of a leaf shutter.

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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2013, 12:01:02 PM »
some posters stated belief that gear is just a matter of convenience and any shot could be shot with any gear given time and thought!

U mad bro? Don't be hurt because other's here also called you out on the convenient applications of a leaf shutter.

As privatebydesign correctly pointed out, there are applications that would be served by having a leaf shutter, but none that wouldn't be BETTER served by having an electronic shutter.  You get all the benefits (but instead of only 1-2 stops gain, you're bound only by flash duration), without all the caveats of a leaf shutter.

Indeed, That's why I use my g15 for its sync speed but leaf shutters are a decent compromise. Afterall, It's about two stops of ambient cutting power.

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Re: Leaf Shutter Lenses For Canon Dslr
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2013, 12:01:02 PM »