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Author Topic: Getting a little bit Fed Up...  (Read 14349 times)

Rincewind

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2011, 07:52:11 AM »
I can tell you that, traditionally, August 23 lies beyond August 22. Maybe this year it will all be different.

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2011, 07:52:11 AM »

akiskev

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2011, 08:09:06 AM »
I bet there will be a great nerd rage from canon fanboys tomorrow..
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aj1575

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2011, 08:16:12 AM »
Don't you think a company that is bold enough to step forward and say "We are working on a camera that will blow our competitors out of the water, with a dynamic range like never before... etc etc" - is better than a rumor page where everything is a guess. I don't expect them to say it will be a camera with features A, B and C and it will be available on XX Date.

I am just wondering how much of this cloak and dagger stuff is real between competitors and how much is from watching too many spy movies :D

Every company works different. Just take a lock at Apple; there is nothing you know before the product is announced officialy. There are others who say, we will bring this product out in 6 months, and they show you a wooden prototype. I don't know which is better.
I think, either you are happy with what you have, and stick to it, or else you loock around to find something better. If you find something you like, buy it, if there is nothing out there, you have to wait a little longer.
Also as a pro; I think the eqiupment is important, but this is an investement you do for several years, so waiting a few months for new equipment to be announced should be bearable.

Chewy734

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2011, 08:16:56 AM »
Didn't you see the rage by Nikon users when they realized that Wednesdays announcements are most likely going to be related to a new Nikon mirrorless system as opposed to a D4/D800/etc?

steven63

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2011, 09:30:41 AM »

I'm frustrated also that Canon hasn't released any new DSLRs for me to druel over.  By I'm sure that if I was to tour their Japan factories and witness first hand what they went through/are going through I would humble myself quickly and patiently wait for them to decide for themselves, and as a nation, what their recovery timeline is.


thepancakeman

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2011, 10:26:10 AM »
So which way would you rather have it?  Announcement of a camera which you cannot get your hands on, or a company which says we're not going to announce the camera until we can ship it?  With either policy you don't get your hands on a new camera.

Personally, I like a little lead time knowing what a coming product is.  That way I can either drool and dream or decide "hey, nothing there worth waiting for, I'll get a current model." 

Waiting until it's available with a "surprise, here it is!" is still an anouncement, and I'm still not likely to buy right away just because I need some time to digest what exactly the surprise product is.

nex-s

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 10:48:35 AM »
From a company point of view I believe it is way better not to say anything about the upcoming product, the date it is coming and whether there will be one whatsoever. Look at Apple, there is so little information about their upcoming products compared to other companies and hence loads of people are still buying the iPhone 4 now, when we already know, that there will be a new one in september. If there is no information about anything, people don't usually see the point of waiting and therefore buy a current product/model and bring the company profit. If they knew something much better is coming out in half a year or a year maybe, they might just save the money and wait for it which is not good for the company.

For us, of course, it is better to know everything, so we can decide what to do and how to save money. But we have to understand that any companies aim is to have as much profit as it possibly can.

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 10:48:35 AM »

WarStreet

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2011, 12:38:32 PM »
It is a disaster both for the company and eventually on the customer if companies like Canon officially announce a replacement model very early. If it is a replacement product, expected sales of current model decreases and also expected sales of accessories too. The predicted cost/pricing/replacing cycle/profit won't be as expected.

Very few users read and care about rumors, and this won't do any harm to Canon, but an official announcement will harm the company. 

Staff that are not replacement of a current model, can be mentioned much before. An example of this is the 200-400 lens. Canon mentioned and showed pictures about this lens before an official announcement. This is positive for the company, especially since the competition already have such a lens.

Most decisions from the company are done for the customer's advantage even though it might look otherwise. Specs/pricing/timing is an art, and companies like Canon have to make decisions to satisfy the biggest number of customers which translates to profit. Ok, so cutting the prices by half is good for the customer ? No if it is not feasible for the company, which translates to a weaker future for us users. It is a balance. For example, releasing a camera 2 months after the competition with better specs. The competition clients will be happy for 2 months, and the Canon clients will be happier for 3 years, and during these 3 years, reviews/comparison will give Canon an advantage which again translates to better future products for us users.

Sorry to sound strange, but I want to show that this is not an easy subject. I am waiting for a future FF camera too and I understand the frustration.




Ghostdive

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2011, 02:07:33 PM »
It is a disaster both for the company and eventually on the customer if companies like Canon officially announce a replacement model very early. If it is a replacement product, expected sales of current model decreases and also expected sales of accessories too. The predicted cost/pricing/replacing cycle/profit won't be as expected.

Very few users read and care about rumors, and this won't do any harm to Canon, but an official announcement will harm the company. 

Staff that are not replacement of a current model, can be mentioned much before. An example of this is the 200-400 lens. Canon mentioned and showed pictures about this lens before an official announcement. This is positive for the company, especially since the competition already have such a lens.

Most decisions from the company are done for the customer's advantage even though it might look otherwise. Specs/pricing/timing is an art, and companies like Canon have to make decisions to satisfy the biggest number of customers which translates to profit. Ok, so cutting the prices by half is good for the customer ? No if it is not feasible for the company, which translates to a weaker future for us users. It is a balance. For example, releasing a camera 2 months after the competition with better specs. The competition clients will be happy for 2 months, and the Canon clients will be happier for 3 years, and during these 3 years, reviews/comparison will give Canon an advantage which again translates to better future products for us users.

Sorry to sound strange, but I want to show that this is not an easy subject. I am waiting for a future FF camera too and I understand the frustration.

I dont' think its possible to change specs yet . Did someone think, if they need 2-3 years, to develop a new camera, than they can change some specs within two month? Lets say nikon push now an 40mp sensor on here highendmodel and canon only have an 36mp sensor, or on have 10 fps and the other then must have 12 fps? I don't thin the opposit company can develop an new sensor or chip to the market within two month.

I think they can make changes in the software, but not in the hardware within an short timeframe.

Lets see what the next days or weeks comes  :D
Wait also for an new camera. If the price is not to high, i'll go to the 1D line (basically weathersealing, maybe some other specs are also nice too). If its to much, the direction would be the 5D.

WarStreet

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2011, 02:18:08 PM »
I dont' think its possible to change specs yet . Did someone think, if they need 2-3 years, to develop a new camera, than they can change some specs within two month?

I don't think they can do it neither.  I think that the development of a product consists from multiple versions with small differences, rather than just one.   

7enderbender

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Thank you Canon
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2011, 02:20:13 PM »
Is it just me or does it feel like Canon is dragging their heels in getting back as the market leader in the Pro SLR market? Maybe I should wait till September to point fingers, but I am really getting disillusioned with Canon. I am doing a lot of pro golf events for magazines and studio work. After a lot of saving and hard work I got enough money together in December last year to move to the 1Ds range and I knew buying one then would be a mistake - so I waited. There were times I thought I should just get a 1D, but there's no stock... So I am still waiting.

Now reading things like "However, we’re told Canon is more interested in getting production up to 100% before announcing new EOS products" is not really the type of news I want to read...

Am I the only one who feels this way? Is Nikon the new leader? (I know swearing is not allowed - but hey, sometimes you need to get things of your chest)  :)

Maybe I just need some feedback from fellow Canon users before I decide to switch to the yellow brand...


I think people need to stop complaining about things that are really non-issues. Last time I checked, Canon was and remained the market leader and actually gained a little over Nikon in 2010. Not that it matters.

Pros will use whatever is available and fits their needs and budget. I mean, I am "just" an amateur photographer because I make my living in a different industry and, hence, use photography, music and sports as an outlet for my own enjoyment. But I still follow what goes on in those industries so I think I may be able to make a valid point here.

So, if anyone paid me to take pictures at pro gold events I'd bring whatever I need for that given that I'd be paid accordingly. You need a pro camera now or yesterday? Why not buy which ever you prefer and that fits your lenses? Who cares if its the red or yellow brand? And if for whatever reason you don't want to buy a current model you can always buy used or rent for specific jobs. That's what pros do.

The complaining about stuff and the whining how expensive and insufficient it all is will mostly come from non-pros with nothing better to do. Which makes sense to some degree, because $10,000 in camera gear is actually  A LOT of money for a hobby. For paid work it's not. Or when did you here the last time that the pizza delivery guy complained about the cost of his 1998 Corolla? Probably in the same ball park as a few pro photography tools. Yes, to us amateurs gear is expensive. For pros the tools are actually pretty cheap compared to the equipment cost in other industries.

One more thing: instead of complaining about Canon/Nikon we should be grateful that they are (still) around and catering to pros as well as amateurs. Good stuff for actually pretty low prices given that there are really are no high grade 35mm alternatives available in the digital age. Try digital medium or large format...

We're just lucky that Canon still seems to be interested in maintaining its image as a professional photography company - despite the fact that most of their revenue comes from office machines and consumer grade P&S cameras. So we might want to scale back the negative commentary a bit. How about "Thank you Canon. Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see what next thing you cook up that is only for a small fraction of your market and has cost you a fortune to develop!"

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akiskev

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2011, 02:58:17 PM »
Thank you Canon. Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see what next thing you cook up that is only for a small fraction of your market and has cost you a fortune to develop!

In fact I think I'll donate them a couple of thousand euros because they are so loyal to us consumers!
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gene_can_sing

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2011, 03:13:26 PM »
As a video guy, I've been fed up for a long time waiting for fixes to minor problems (moire and aliasing) that competitors have solved already (Panasonic and Sony). But this time, I think Canon might actually release something. It's too hard for me to switch as I have to much Canon equipment.

As for not being able re-tweak the line after the Nikon and Sony announcements, I think Canon has all their bases covered. I'm certain they have a number of different proto-types with different features and mega pixels, and since they are announcing after Sony and Nikon, they will use the proto-type that best matches or exceeds the competition.

Canon can move slow because there is not much competition in the high end camera business. Nikon is the only major competitor at this point, but I think the real threat will come from Sony if Sony wants to go all out. Sony has more money than Canon and Nikon combined + much more additional.

I hope Sony gives Canon the wake up call they need to start actually releasing new DSLRs that are worth buying. Competition is good, and unlike the computer industry, there is a serious lack of it in cameras.

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2011, 03:13:26 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Thank you Canon
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2011, 03:13:50 PM »
We're just lucky that Canon still seems to be interested in maintaining its image as a professional photography company - despite the fact that most of their revenue comes from office machines and consumer grade P&S cameras.

I don't think that's entirely true.  You're right that office machines are the largest chunk, but in 1Q2011, approximately 35% of Canon's revenue came from their camera division.   Canon sells a lot more P&S than dSLRs, with the latter only represent around of 20% of uint sales.  But units don't matter, value does - and dSLRs and lenses make up around 70% of revenues from the camera division.  So, that means something on the order of 25% of Canon's sales revenue comes from their dSLR lines.  Granted, the vast majority of that is the Rebel/xxxD line, but still, they have a strong incentive to maintain position as a market leader, and the cache of the pro lines is a part of that effort.

For the numbers, see Canon's 1Q2011 report.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 03:15:25 PM by neuroanatomist »
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7enderbender

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Re: Thank you Canon
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2011, 03:36:56 PM »
We're just lucky that Canon still seems to be interested in maintaining its image as a professional photography company - despite the fact that most of their revenue comes from office machines and consumer grade P&S cameras.

I don't think that's entirely true.  You're right that office machines are the largest chunk, but in 1Q2011, approximately 35% of Canon's revenue came from their camera division.   Canon sells a lot more P&S than dSLRs, with the latter only represent around of 20% of uint sales.  But units don't matter, value does - and dSLRs and lenses make up around 70% of revenues from the camera division.  So, that means something on the order of 25% of Canon's sales revenue comes from their dSLR lines.  Granted, the vast majority of that is the Rebel/xxxD line, but still, they have a strong incentive to maintain position as a market leader, and the cache of the pro lines is a part of that effort.

For the numbers, see Canon's 1Q2011 report.

Exactly right. I've been looking for the actual details on the figures in their financial statements but didn't quite find what I was looking for. But I'm on the same page with you, only that I counted the Rebel series as part of my broad statement about "P&S" cameras. Whatever you want to call the consumer and "pro-sumer" segment. It gets even more confusing because Canon actually puts all camera related items under "consumer".

Revenue alone is not helping us either since we'd need to know what the actual profit on the 1-series cameras is. In the big picture probably not a lot. But of course they benefit from image/cache and trickle-down technology.

So, really. It's all good in the end. They've been a leader in the pro and consumer camera market for quite a while, just survived an earthquake and the aftermath of a national catastrophe and obviously still working on bringing to market a few more big ticket items. What's the rush? The current line-up of gear obviously works well at all levels.
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Re: Thank you Canon
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2011, 03:36:56 PM »