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Author Topic: Getting a little bit Fed Up...  (Read 14762 times)

hhelmbold

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2011, 03:18:36 PM »
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I'm your typical "Windows XP" kinda guy. I had to use Win Vista once and was annoyed by it. Win 7 may be better but at the moment I just do not care.

Ah - you see we are exactly opposites here :D I can also try and convince you by telling you why Windows 7 is better and all the great features it has, but... why change something that works for you? But then the other side of the coin... The day WILL come when you will have to upgrade the software and computers because Windows XP is no longer supported... the current hardware gave in and the new hardware is not compatible with XP... I am there with my current equipment - time has come for upgrade :)

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2011, 03:18:36 PM »

EYEONE

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2011, 05:22:49 PM »

P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait.

Gotta turn the sharpness up on the presents. It does have a softness issue but it can be extremely sharp.

I shoot in RAW and it was my understanding that sharpness has no effect on RAW.  Maybe I'm wrong on that??


Well, honestly I don't know. I shoot RAW as well and the 7D is very sharp too me and I have the sharpness turned up. I know the contrast and saturation settings don't make a difference in the RAW file. Maybe sharpness doesn't either. White balance seems to matter though. I've got some time tonight, maybe I'll run a little experiment.
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bornshooter

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2011, 05:38:22 PM »

P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait.

Gotta turn the sharpness up on the presents. It does have a softness issue but it can be extremely sharp.
if you shoot raw then image settings for sharpness etc in camera has no effect.when you shoot in raw you have just that the raw image data untouched by the camera you have to process the image yourself sharpness contrast etc.
I shoot in RAW and it was my understanding that sharpness has no effect on RAW.  Maybe I'm wrong on that??


Well, honestly I don't know. I shoot RAW as well and the 7D is very sharp too me and I have the sharpness turned up. I know the contrast and saturation settings don't make a difference in the RAW file. Maybe sharpness doesn't either. White balance seems to matter though. I've got some time tonight, maybe I'll run a little experiment.

awinphoto

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2011, 06:02:13 PM »

P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait.

Gotta turn the sharpness up on the presents. It does have a softness issue but it can be extremely sharp.
if you shoot raw then image settings for sharpness etc in camera has no effect.when you shoot in raw you have just that the raw image data untouched by the camera you have to process the image yourself sharpness contrast etc.
I shoot in RAW and it was my understanding that sharpness has no effect on RAW.  Maybe I'm wrong on that??


Well, honestly I don't know. I shoot RAW as well and the 7D is very sharp too me and I have the sharpness turned up. I know the contrast and saturation settings don't make a difference in the RAW file. Maybe sharpness doesn't either. White balance seems to matter though. I've got some time tonight, maybe I'll run a little experiment.

For what it's worth, on the 7D when you shoot raw, it uses the preset sharpness/saturation/etc settings you set in camera however when you get the raw, you can (in DPP) raise the sharpness or soften it, as well as all the other in camera presets... At times it can be unforgiving sharp however if you are taking zero'd out raw files and compare the same image taken on the 40D, with it's default settings, it could be seen as softer.  You shoot raw to get the best quality and have full control of all settings in post... so if you are shooting raw and not taking advantage of this, then you're not getting the most out of raw. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

thepancakeman

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2011, 06:37:46 PM »

P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait.

Gotta turn the sharpness up on the presents. It does have a softness issue but it can be extremely sharp.
if you shoot raw then image settings for sharpness etc in camera has no effect.when you shoot in raw you have just that the raw image data untouched by the camera you have to process the image yourself sharpness contrast etc.
I shoot in RAW and it was my understanding that sharpness has no effect on RAW.  Maybe I'm wrong on that??


Well, honestly I don't know. I shoot RAW as well and the 7D is very sharp too me and I have the sharpness turned up. I know the contrast and saturation settings don't make a difference in the RAW file. Maybe sharpness doesn't either. White balance seems to matter though. I've got some time tonight, maybe I'll run a little experiment.

For what it's worth, on the 7D when you shoot raw, it uses the preset sharpness/saturation/etc settings you set in camera however when you get the raw, you can (in DPP) raise the sharpness or soften it, as well as all the other in camera presets... At times it can be unforgiving sharp however if you are taking zero'd out raw files and compare the same image taken on the 40D, with it's default settings, it could be seen as softer.  You shoot raw to get the best quality and have full control of all settings in post... so if you are shooting raw and not taking advantage of this, then you're not getting the most out of raw.

I do my processing in Adobe Lightroom and have never used DPP.  The little bit I played with sharpening these images in LR didn't wow me--would there be a big difference doing it in DPP?  And maybe the issue is that by "sharp" I am talking a little more on the pixel level than the macro level (i.e. how much can I crop and still look good, vs. how does a full size image compare  :o ),  and that's where I noticed the difference on details/sharpness.  And the 7d image just were not as crisp as the 40d.

As a side note, I often shoot with a really small DOF, so regardless of whether my target was in focus, there is simply nothing in the frame that is terribly sharp.  Maybe I got a bad 7D, as it sounds like there are some out there?

awinphoto

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2011, 12:10:13 AM »
pancakeman... To be honest, I dont use Lightroom (or aperture for that matter) so I cant speak for their sharpening/raw processing methods.  i have used adobe raw in photoshop 4,5 and 5.5 which should be the same method?  It has always given me great results.  DPP is kinda cumbersome but it does save the different levels of all the camera settings in there so if you have it on a setting of 3 for instance, and you want it at 6, or visa versa, you can always go back in and change it without degrading your image. 

This question has been brought up several times on this forum over the least few years... This is such a delicate issue that I dont want to overwhelm you or give you wrong information, however as you know, with the 7D, it is going to point out every single issue with your lenses on a pixel level.  That being said, you appear to have some great lenses to put on them so i would first try some rough testing... Try at different lengths and micro adjust ALL your lenses (and test at shallow dof at telephoto...)  make sure the focus is spot on. 

If you have done that, make sure you are shooting at appropriate shutter speeds...  Since this sensor is sooo demanding of the lenses, try shooting a few shots of 2-3-4x the focal length of the lens... if not anything else but to rule out camera shake.  If that doesn't solve things, double check what you are focusing on... Since this is going to be sooo demanding on the lens, just the slightest bit off (and sometimes viewing in the viewfinder you may not be able to see if it's a hair off) Try single point or spot single point AF 1 shot AF... see if you cant nail focus.  My 7d gives me erratic results at zone AF so I usually just shoot the + (single point with 4 surrounding points) or the single or spot single... those are my best performers.  The + shines for me on al servo and motion photography.  If still no prevail and if the camera is under warranty, send it in to be checked... make sure it is to factory specs... If this doesn't help, let me know. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

hhelmbold

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2011, 01:31:32 AM »
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P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait

Just want to ask one obvious question here... Are you using the same lens on both cameras? I am sure this is an obvious "Yes" but still had to check :)

I also use Lightroom for all my post processing and I actually get better results from it than with Photoshop's RAW utility. I think the basic "engine" of the 2 apps are the same, but I find I have more control in Lightroom. I also use Nik Sharpener Pro, but find this can sometimes go a bit overboard on the sharpening.

Unfortunately I don't have a 7D, but I do have a 40D and this used to be a bit soft for me compared to the 1D. I set the sharpness to full on the presets and violla - never looked back. If it is too sharp, which it hardly ever is, I just pull it down a bit in Lightroom. It is much easier to "soften" one or two photos in Lightroom than sharpening a whole bunch.

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2011, 01:31:32 AM »

Gothmoth

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2011, 04:33:42 AM »
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sorry. but is you photography so perfect that all current canon DSLR cameras are not good enough for you?
and if the answer is yes... i am (i think most here) curious to hear how nikon will increase your phantastic photos even further??

If you read a bit further you would see that I also said that I stay true to Canon and won't ever switch... I was speaking out of anxiety and anticipation on a new camera. I still firmly believe the best camera is the one in your hands - but if the one in your hands are becoming more and more unreliable then you have to start looking at getting new stuff.

but you still haven´t told us in witch way your canon camera has become unreliable.
or did you (sorry i have not much time to read all in this thread carefully)?

but i read a lot of pro photographer blogs.

and NONE of these pros is whinning about how bad their canons or nikons are!
none of them writes stuff like "hell i need a better camera.. my canon is so unreliable i think about buying into the nikon system".
or vice versa...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 04:38:48 AM by Gothmoth »

hhelmbold

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2011, 09:21:58 AM »
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...and NONE of these pros is whinning about how bad their canons or nikons are!

uh.... did I say my Canons are bad?

thepancakeman

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2011, 10:10:24 AM »
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P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait

Just want to ask one obvious question here... Are you using the same lens on both cameras? I am sure this is an obvious "Yes" but still had to check :)

I also use Lightroom for all my post processing and I actually get better results from it than with Photoshop's RAW utility. I think the basic "engine" of the 2 apps are the same, but I find I have more control in Lightroom. I also use Nik Sharpener Pro, but find this can sometimes go a bit overboard on the sharpening.

Unfortunately I don't have a 7D, but I do have a 40D and this used to be a bit soft for me compared to the 1D. I set the sharpness to full on the presets and violla - never looked back. If it is too sharp, which it hardly ever is, I just pull it down a bit in Lightroom. It is much easier to "soften" one or two photos in Lightroom than sharpening a whole bunch.

Obviously I'm going to have to play with sharpness in-camera more next go 'round.  But yes, same lens.  I shot the "same" 500-1000 shots every other week all summer at my team's bike race using only L glass (mostly 70-200 L IS, some with 24-105 L), so they are shots that I am VERY familiar with.


hhelmbold

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2011, 01:40:30 PM »
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  I shot the "same" 500-1000 shots every other week all summer at my team's bike race using only L glass (mostly 70-200 L IS, some with 24-105 L), so they are shots that I am VERY familiar with.

Well I guess the only advice I can give now is saying... have fun! :D

awinphoto

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2011, 11:06:17 PM »
Do let us know if any of our suggestions help with your focus issue. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

awinphoto

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2011, 10:20:28 AM »
Just for giggles regarding how you cant get a sharp image on the 7d, with the settings properly adjusted, can you manual focus to get a sharp image using live view zoomed in on a tripod.  IF you can, then it's a AF/microadjust/camera shake/etc problem which is usually user fixable... If you cannot even pull off manual focus, then send the camera in..
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: Getting a little bit Fed Up...
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2011, 10:20:28 AM »