November 28, 2014, 02:18:13 PM

Author Topic: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?  (Read 16168 times)

distant.star

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2013, 10:47:41 AM »
And that is only slightly less likely than seeing pigs flying over snowbanks in hell. 

Mmmmmmmmm, barbecue!!!!

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2013, 10:47:41 AM »

jthomson

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2013, 11:20:33 AM »
The 100-400mm L sells well because it and the 400 mm f5.L are the only  semi-affordable 400mm  lenses with decent image quality.   The 100-400mm L sells better than the 400mm f5.6L because the zoom is more versatile than the prime.

The 70-300mm L doesn't sell as well because it is overpriced.  You don't need to spend  $1400 to get a 70-300mm lens. Canon makes a non-L 70-300mm that many people get as their first long telephoto and Tamron makes a 70-300mm  that is  both less expensive and better than the Canon Non-L.  If you have either of these lenses  and you want to upgrade, then you will most probably pick one of the 400mm's  to get the better image quality and the extra 100mm  than   for  the 70-300mm L that has only a small improvement in image quality.


This will probably change when Canon finally upgades the 100-400mm.  I would expect that the price will go up to around $3500 and then the 70-300mm L  will look more attractive. 

 


viggen61

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2013, 11:32:40 AM »
Do people need the extra 100mm that much?

One word: Birds... 400mm is "entry level", even with a crop camera like my 7D, for birding. 300 doesn't really cut it for wild birds. I have a Tamron SP 70-300 f/4-5.6 Di VC USD, and it's a nice, compact lens for travel, but when I'm out birding, it stays home. 100mm isn't a lot of difference, but it helps. There are times I can barely get close enough to a small songbird with the 100-400 @ 400. With the 300, I'd never get close enough.

Quote
Do people compare the two lenses or just buy the 100-400L because so many other photographers use it?

I'm sure many do make comparisons, and there are some serious points to consider that could make one choose one lens over the other.

When I was looking, the 70-300L was recently out, and priced similarly to the 100-400 (actually, slightly higher), but it "officially" does not support Canon Extenders. Since I already had a 70-300, and I knew I needed more reach, I opted for the 100-400. Plus, even if it did support the extenders, with a 1.4x, it gets me 420mm @ f/8, where my 7D cannot Autofocus!

Yes, the weight of this lens is an issue for some, but if you want to get good shots of birds, you're gonna be carrying the weight one way or another.  Three pounds is pretty lightweight for what this lens does. You're looking at 8 pounds and up for other serious birding options though, with the "big whites". A 400 f/5.6 IS would (well, should...) be lighter, but it's not available.

As for the push-pull design, I don't find that an issue, but I DO wish there was a better mechanism for friction locking the lens in place. The double-ring thing is imprecise at best, and I tend to have it locked someplace, somewhat limiting the versatility. Back in the 80s, when "zoom" was a dirty word (well, more of a dirty word than it is today!) many, many zooms were push-pull. If you want really weird, there were even some where the "tele" end was pulled back, and the "wide" end was pushed forward! My point is, that, while push-pull may be unusual in Canon's lineup (only the 100-400 & 28-300 have it currently), it is not that unusual in the history of zoom lenses. As far as I am concerned, if Canon thinks a new design for the 100-400 is best as a push-pull, that would be fine by me, though (hopefully!) with a better zoom friction system.

Really, what I would most like to see in a new 100-400 is a modern IS and AF (the 100-400 is a FIFTEEN-YEAR-OLD design!) with somewhat improved IQ that might make a II with a 1.4 have similar IQ to the original.

(Heck, if they just dropped modern IS (4 stops, please!) & AF into the current lens, I'd pay them $500 more than what it is now!)

Quote
Are people buying now because yes they would love the version II but are scared that it will be to expensive?

Some may be, but I'm not sure that would be the best idea just yet. It's not like the current lens will diasppear. When/If a new 100-400 arrives, the current one will likely be cheaper to buy used, well, at least still cheaper than the new one certainly will be! There will be lots of us who will be looking for ways to fund the version II by selling their version I!
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Solar B

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2013, 12:12:43 PM »
No mention of the Sigma 120-400?  What do people think of this lens?

AvTvM

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2013, 12:20:20 PM »
Really, what I would most like to see in a new 100-400 is a modern IS and AF (the 100-400 is a FIFTEEN-YEAR-OLD design!) with somewhat improved IQ that might make a II with a 1.4 have similar IQ to the original.

(Heck, if they just dropped modern IS (4 stops, please!) & AF into the current lens, I'd pay them $500 more than what it is now!)

YES, this is what so MANY of us would like to get! Actually all of us, except those individuals who absolutely do not want a push-pull zoom or who are able & willing to purchase the 200-400/1.4x.

I for one would be interested in either of the following lenses: 

A 100-400/4.5-5.6 IS L Mk. II - push-pull design, same amount of weather-sealing, but 4 stop IS and slightly better IQ at the long end, at a price similar to the current lens - meaning: way below 2000 USD/€

OR

B. 100-400/4.0-5.6 IS L Mk. II, turning zoom, better weather-/dustsealing (!), clearly better IQ across the entire focal range and frame - especially at the long end - and significantly better Bokeh (9-aperture blades), and included detachable tripod ring with integrated Arca-Swiss compatible grooves on its foot which also serves as nice carrying handle ... for around USD/Euro 2.500

However, based on my longstanding observations of Canon product development and pricing decisions I predict, they will eventually offer a 100-400/4.5-5.6 turning zoom with all other specs as in option A above ... "in order not to cannibalize the 200-400/1.4x"  ::) ... AND a price tag north of 3000 USD/Euro  :o

Some may be, but I'm not sure that would be the best idea just yet. It's not like the current lens will diasppear. When/If a new 100-400 arrives, the current one will likely be cheaper to buy used, well, at least still cheaper than the new one certainly will be! There will be lots of us who will be looking for ways to fund the version II by selling their version I!

If Canon comes up with what I predict [only very slightly improved Mk. II costing 3k+ USD/Euro], prices for well maintained, used 100-400's will go up and remain high for a long time.

Krob78

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2013, 02:02:59 PM »
I think this is why it keeps selling...

Sure some may rip it apart for it's lack of sharpness but it works for me!

EF 100-400mm
f/5.6
ISO 200
1/2000 sec

Why wouldn't one want that? :D
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JonAustin

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2013, 02:23:33 PM »
Re: AvTvM's post:

I tend to agree, and I'd be fine with either of those alternatives. (Like you, I'd prefer option B, and would be willing to pay for it.)

I'd even be fine with them limiting the zoom range to 150- or 200-400mm.
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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2013, 02:23:33 PM »

tron

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2013, 02:38:57 PM »
Re: AvTvM's post:

I tend to agree, and I'd be fine with either of those alternatives. (Like you, I'd prefer option B, and would be willing to pay for it.)

I'd even be fine with them limiting the zoom range to 150- or 200-400mm.
200-400mm f/5.6L ?  :o  :o  :o

This is impossible for Canon! It would compete with the 200-400 f/4L !!!

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with your idea. Canon will!

Imagine a very good EF500mm f/5.6L IS or EF600mm f/5.6L IS.  :)
They would sell like hot cakes (well almost!) and Canon would almost kiss goodby their f/4L IS II ones. OK there would still be professional buyers for these big telephoto lenses but not as many as there are to day.

(Unfortunately for amateurs...)

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2013, 02:48:00 PM »
200-400mm f/5.6L ?  :o  :o  :o

This is impossible for Canon! It would compete with the 200-400 f/4L !!!

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with your idea. Canon will!

Imagine a very good EF500mm f/5.6L IS or EF600mm f/5.6L IS. 
They would sell like hot cakes (well almost!) and Canon would almost kiss goodby their f/4L IS II ones. OK there would still be professional buyers for these big telephoto lenses but not as many as there are to day.

Sure, because the 300/4L IS means that Canon would never produce a 300/2.8L IS lens, much less multiple versions of one, right?  And an 85/1.2 would be a non-starter, because of competition from the 85/1.8.  A 400/4 lens?  Never happen, there's a 400/5.6.  Ummmm.....no.
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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2013, 02:56:41 PM »
For a lens of this size ( 100 - 400 mm ) push / pull works great. It is really easy to use.
Please bring out a new one according to modern standards. it is a great lens for traveling by plane, but reduce the weight a little bit more.

serendipidy

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2013, 03:25:06 PM »
And that is only slightly less likely than seeing pigs flying over snowbanks in hell. 

Mmmmmmmmm, barbecue!!!!

And ice cold drinks, too ;D
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keithfullermusic

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2013, 03:34:14 PM »
because its an awesome lens.  sure, compared to some other lenses out there it doesn't compare.  however, for the price - its hard to beat.

Here are a few shots i got of an osprey less than two weeks ago.
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CanonMan

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2013, 03:49:32 PM »
Some very interesting comments and observations. However I am still undecided on what to purchase but to be fair I am not the quickest in decision making.

But ......  it seems that the IQ is not really that much different between the two lenses. It also seems that most people, although admitting that the AF and IS is better on the 70-300L, still opt for the 100-400L. This can only be in my eyes mainly for the extra reach and being able to use teleconverters.

So here is my thinking. The 100-400 has been around a long time. The 70-300 is very new and is an L lens which means in Canon terms the best.

Are we saying that in all the years since the 100-400 came out that lens design has hardly progressed ?

Are we saying that the only way to get more IQ is going to cost mega bucks ?  In this case I refer to the new 200-400.

Is this the reason why there is still no replacement for the 100-400 because Canon are unable to produce a much better product for only $1000 to $1500 more and if they do produce one then it will be at such a cost that it will just not sell. In other words why spend so much money of R&D and then take a risk that the new lens will not sell.

Do people therefore accept that the 100-400 in a MKII version will only get very slightly better IQ but will upgrade because it will have better IS and AF ?

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2013, 03:49:32 PM »

lap.texas

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2013, 03:59:17 PM »
I have used the 100-400 on Canon Rebels for 5 years obtaining some excellent photos and know many others who own this lens, but they are birders who want a good picture not a magazine quality photo. When I am on the trail I see dozens of these lenses.

Since I snap many small birds, I am looking for something longer for less than $5000 and have looked at the Nikon D7100, 80-400mm G VR, and 1.4x Tele giving more than 1000mm reach. I have seen many excellent comments on this configuration and hope it will push Canon to bring out a new 100-400mm f4.5-f5.6L and a new version of the 7D with f8 AF to compete with the above configuration.

serendipidy

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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2013, 04:01:11 PM »
because its an awesome lens.  sure, compared to some other lenses out there it doesn't compare.  however, for the price - its hard to beat.

Here are a few shots i got of an osprey less than two weeks ago.

Really nice. I like #2 the most :)
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Re: Why Does the 100-400L Sell So Well Still ?
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2013, 04:01:11 PM »