August 20, 2014, 03:02:17 PM

Author Topic: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...  (Read 8711 times)

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« on: June 06, 2013, 04:58:22 PM »
I have a problem with white balance shifting on random images on my 1D X.
White balance is set to Flash, Manual Exposure and Aperture and ISO. NOTHING AUTOMATIC except for AF.
Out of 307 photos I took yesterday, about 8 or 9 have a "colder" white balance. Basically they look less "warm".
I shoot models so I can tell right away because of the skin tones and the over all scene changing.
At first I thought it was a color problem with my Einstein Flashes not keeping up while shooting rapidly (The camera is on Low Speed at 3fps anyway and at about 10% of power, so recycling shouldn't be a problem) but I notice this also happens when using available light.
This happens every day on random images and I am concerned at the moment thinking I might have a faulty sensor or light meter...
I have the latest firmware and use a Canon 24-70 F2.8L II...
Anyone has the same issue? Please let me know.
I am a CPS Gold Member and could send the camera to Canon for a checkup...
Cheers

Patrick
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

canon rumors FORUM

1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« on: June 06, 2013, 04:58:22 PM »

dgatwood

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 636
  • 300D, 400D, 6D
    • View Profile
Re: 1D X White balance problem on some images...
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 12:19:05 AM »
That's really weird.  Are there any examples you can post?  Do the EXIF tags confirm that the shots were taken at the same WB setting?  If you take the original RAW files and process them with Lightroom, Aperture, Camera RAW, or some other tool at a fixed WB setting, do you get consistent results, or do you still see the same variation?

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
Re: 1D X White balance problem on some images...
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 01:00:47 AM »
That's really weird.  Are there any examples you can post?  Do the EXIF tags confirm that the shots were taken at the same WB setting?  If you take the original RAW files and process them with Lightroom, Aperture, Camera RAW, or some other tool at a fixed WB setting, do you get consistent results, or do you still see the same variation?
I shoot jpg, so it's not a processing problem.
 Yes, Color temperature is the same on the Metadata but visually, you can see the difference.
I will try to post some samples tomorrow.
Thanx for your reply
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

RGF

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1262
  • How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
    • View Profile
Re: 1D X White balance problem on some images...
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2013, 06:58:26 PM »
does the meta data so that the flash fired?  Unfortunately it will not tell the flash power

dgatwood

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 636
  • 300D, 400D, 6D
    • View Profile
Re: 1D X White balance problem on some images...
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2013, 10:29:12 PM »
I shoot jpg ...

Why?  Just curious.  I haven't shot in JPEG for about three years now.  At some point, I realized that you never know when you're going to want a higher quality version of a shot, and it's a lot easier to shoot it RAW the first time than to go back and try to recreate it.

That and it seems to me that shooting in JPEG format on a 1D* is like driving a Ferrari with an automatic transmission.  :D

Either way, my point was that if you shoot in RAW+JPEG, you have the raw data, so you can tell whether the white balance strangeness is caused by a camera bug or something environmental.  With JPEG, there's no way to tell because you don't have the raw sensor data to compare it with.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 10:32:32 PM by dgatwood »

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 01:09:11 PM »
Follow up of this post: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=15249.0

I have a problem with white balance shifting on random images on my 1D X.
White balance is set to Flash, Manual Exposure and Aperture and ISO. NOTHING AUTOMATIC except for AF.
Out of 307 photos I took yesterday, about 8 or 9 have a "colder" white balance. Basically they look less "warm".
I shoot models so I can tell right away because of the skin tones and the over all scene changing.
At first I thought it was a color problem with my Einstein Flashes not keeping up while shooting rapidly (The camera is on Low Speed at 3fps anyway and at about 10% of power, so recycling shouldn't be a problem) but I notice this also happens when using available light.
This happens every day on random images and I am concerned at the moment thinking I might have a faulty sensor or light meter...
I have the latest firmware and use a Canon 24-70 F2.8L II...
Anyone has the same issue? Please let me know.
I am a CPS Gold Member and could send the camera to Canon for a checkup...
BTW I shoot jpg not RAW

As you can now see in the 4 samples (The left being the "off" WB) there is a considerable difference in warmth. Out of 500 images I shot yesterday, 20 were off. I can easily correct the WB in Aperture, but the bug bothers me.
Anyone else has experienced this problem?
Cheers

Pat
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 01:10:55 PM by clicstudio »
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
Re: 1D X White balance problem on some images...
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2013, 01:12:31 PM »
That's really weird.  Are there any examples you can post?  Do the EXIF tags confirm that the shots were taken at the same WB setting?  If you take the original RAW files and process them with Lightroom, Aperture, Camera RAW, or some other tool at a fixed WB setting, do you get consistent results, or do you still see the same variation?

I shoot jpg, so it's not a processing problem.
 Yes, Color temperature is the same on the Metadata but visually, you can see the difference.
I will try to post some samples tomorrow.
Thanx for your reply

Check out the follow up with samples... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=15276.0
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1D X White balance problem on some images...
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2013, 01:12:31 PM »

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
Re: 1D X White balance problem on some images...
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2013, 01:19:08 PM »
I shoot jpg ...

Why?  Just curious.  I haven't shot in JPEG for about three years now.  At some point, I realized that you never know when you're going to want a higher quality version of a shot, and it's a lot easier to shoot it RAW the first time than to go back and try to recreate it.

That and it seems to me that shooting in JPEG format on a 1D* is like driving a Ferrari with an automatic transmission.  :D

Either way, my point was that if you shoot in RAW+JPEG, you have the raw data, so you can tell whether the white balance strangeness is caused by a camera bug or something environmental.  With JPEG, there's no way to tell because you don't have the raw sensor data to compare it with.

I shoot girls. Skin tones always look like crap on RAW. Its hard to make them look natural. I like what I see on the jpg version and can't get even close even tweaking for minutes on a RAW file.
Aperture's RAW processor is really bad. I don't like Lightroom and Photoshop CS6 does a great job but hair and skin always look yellowish and over sharpened. When you shoot models, sometimes TOO MUCH detail is not good... That means more skin corrections and smoothing... Not good for me. I shoot about 30 girls per month so the RAW workflow would be a pain. Not to mention storage. I have 16GB CF cards and I shoot from 300 to 800 images a day. I would need more memory, more hard disk space and more time. Most of my work ends up online anyway. If I know I am going to print something, I'd probably shoot it RAW+jpg.
This problem is not related to the shooting mode. I always shot jpg on my previous 1Ds, 1D Mark II, Mark IIN, Mark III and Mark IV... Never had this problem.
Thanx for your reply

P
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

victorwol

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
    • View Profile
Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »
Why you do jpg on this kind, or and kind, of Photography??? Is that a space problem? Use DNG with lossy compression, uses about the same space as the JPGs and still RAW and you can fix the WB...
1D X - 5D MKIII - 7D - 24 f1.4L - 8-15 L - 50 1.2L - 85 1.2L - 15 2.8 - 16-35 2.8L - 24-105 4.0L - 70-200 2.8 LII - 24 TSE - 45 TSE - 90 TSE - MPE 65 - 180 f3.5L - 100 2.8L II - 580EX and a few Einsteins.

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2013, 02:04:33 PM »
Why you do jpg on this kind, or and kind, of Photography??? Is that a space problem? Use DNG with lossy compression, uses about the same space as the JPGs and still RAW and you can fix the WB...

I can Fix the WB on jpg Just fine.
My problem is different. I might have a faulty camera or sensor.
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 13839
    • View Profile
Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2013, 02:16:54 PM »
Anything in the hotshoe?  On a Canon body, setting Flash WB isn't a constant 6000K no tint like it would be if you set it in a RAW converter (other than DPP).  On-camera setting for Flash WB uses color information passed from a Canon flash, so the WB isn't a constant color temp - the idea is to compensate for color temp changes in the flash tube output.  Perhaps with a CyberSync or other 3rd party trigger in the hotshoe, an odd signal comes back occasionally?  You could try setting a Kelvin WB.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Harry Muff

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 409
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr:
Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2013, 02:31:53 PM »
On my screen, the left ones look more realistic. It could just be the flash head output varying slightly for some.
Some cameras… With Canon written on them. Oh, and some lenses… Also with Canon written on them. Oh, and a shiny camera with Fuji written on it too...

Feel free to have a wander round my flickr

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2013, 02:35:09 PM »
Anything in the hotshoe?  On a Canon body, setting Flash WB isn't a constant 6000K no tint like it would be if you set it in a RAW converter (other than DPP).  On-camera setting for Flash WB uses color information passed from a Canon flash, so the WB isn't a constant color temp - the idea is to compensate for color temp changes in the flash tube output.  Perhaps with a CyberSync or other 3rd party trigger in the hotshoe, an odd signal comes back occasionally?  You could try setting a Kelvin WB.
I have a pocket wizard mini TT1 in the hot shoe triggering Einstein flashes. No Canon flashes.
I am never happy with the WB at any setting. Auto is usually too cold and since the LCD on th camera is completely inaccurate, trying to get a Kelvin WB using the camera would be impossible. I can try a custom WB but since color temperature shifts according to the power of the flash and ambient light is always different, I rather stick with a preset value and then fix it in Aperture.
I like a warmer WB anyway. Sometimes accurate WB makes skin tones look too pale or greenish, so I like to tweak ot to my taste.
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2013, 02:35:09 PM »

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2013, 02:38:39 PM »
On my screen, the left ones look more realistic. It could just be the flash head output varying slightly for some.
Is not about color accuracy. I'm trying to illustrate a random problem with the WB, not the accuracy.
20 images out of 500 are Different, that is the bottom line.
This happens everyday. Randomly.
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

clicstudio

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 199
  • {+}
    • View Profile
    • clic::studio photography
Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2013, 02:40:30 PM »
BTW, Thanx to neuroanatomist for merging the topics. I didn't know how to do that  :D
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1D X White Balance Bug NOW WITH SAMPLES...
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2013, 02:40:30 PM »