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Author Topic: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes  (Read 2498 times)

brianleighty

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YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« on: June 14, 2013, 12:51:52 PM »
So I've run into an issue and am not sure if there is any way around this or not. My goal is to have on-camera speedlights with a yn622c in between on each. A third flash will be used to bring up the ambient level of light. The issue I have is if camera A fires, camera B fires its on camera flash which could pose unexpected results. I was hoping there was a channel that was shared by all like on the the cheaper yongnuo triggers but I don't see anything like this. Is this just a limitation of the system or is there something I'm missing? Thanks.
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YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« on: June 14, 2013, 12:51:52 PM »

jonathan7007

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 02:23:08 PM »
Brian,
So we understand exactly what you need:
Two photographers with flash on their cameras are depending on a third flash that lights up the area. The issue is the shared channel that will fire the second photographer's flash, and shared status of this third light (not ready/recycled in time to be available when needed.)

Would one more flash -- so background is illuminated by a dedicated speedlight -- fix this problem? Assuming two channels available on Yongnuo... Seems like a reasonable-cost solution as you can go with a simple even manual only unit if bouncing. Yes, you have to find two attachment spots or have two stands. Not OK in some event venues. But way more flexible.

Don't know the Yongnuo triggers' capabilities, sorry.

brianleighty

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2013, 02:30:28 PM »
Brian,
So we understand exactly what you need:
Two photographers with flash on their cameras are depending on a third flash that lights up the area. The issue is the shared channel that will fire the second photographer's flash, and shared status of this third light (not ready/recycled in time to be available when needed.)

Would one more flash -- so background is illuminated by a dedicated speedlight -- fix this problem? Assuming two channels available on Yongnuo... Seems like a reasonable-cost solution as you can go with a simple even manual only unit if bouncing. Yes, you have to find two attachment spots or have two stands. Not OK in some event venues. But way more flexible.

Don't know the Yongnuo triggers' capabilities, sorry.

Thanks Jonathan, you got it mostly right. Recycle time is part the equation as well but the main thing is the light from the secondary cameras flash messing with the main camera's shot. I have considered just doing off camera and would absolutely love that since it would drop the weight I have to carry by quite a bit but unfortunately I haven't had good results in testing this. It basically boils down to I want two cameras to be able to share a third flash but not have the two camera's flashes affect each other.
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jonathan7007

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 10:31:08 PM »
Will Yongnuo receivers support this idea:
Your "room bounce" speedlight has a y-splitter cable allowing two receivers to fire it. Each receiver so attached is set to a different channel. You and your second shooter must be set for these different channels.

Check www.flashzebra.com for the necessary cable. (or info@flashzebra.com) I *think* it would be the same cable I bought for the opposite need: One receiver fires two speedlights from one signal. This allows shorter recycle.

I recommend a battery pack to speed the return to full power for your room-bounce. Sounds interesting. I like the idea. Will you post a shot that shows how you took advantage of the rig? Or tell us that this idea will not work for some reason?

I use Odin so will follow your thinking to see what I can learn from the investigation...

brianleighty

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2013, 11:37:44 PM »
Interesting... I looked into cables to split a while back but everything I read said that TTL would only work if one cable was connected. Regardless... a setup like that would get more pricey as 3 is just the start and if all goes well I may eventually add more which then means I have to have a receiver for each. If there doesn't end up being any way around this then I'll probably end mainly just using these for macro photography like I have for the past several months. It works great for single camera setups but it'd be nice if it could work with multiples as well.
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brianleighty

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 09:11:30 AM »
So I did some more messing around last night. The closest I've been able to find is doing A:B C and setting the on-camera flash to 8:1 and the other oncamera flash at 1:8. This means it'll obviously still go off but at least it won't be as strong so might be able to make it work. Not perfect but at least a little better than before. Let me know if anybody has a better idea.
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jonathan7007

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2013, 03:07:45 PM »
Brian,
I imagined this was for events like weddings, gatherings, one-room meetings. I -- personally -- would have wanted a manual flash lighting the room attached high (best) or on a light stand placed inconspicuously. (I keep a weird set of clamps and hardware for this.) I would not want that level to change, although of course throughout the space its level will be different.  Then I would try to have my on-camera strobe act as fill to a light that appeared to be ambient but was actually from that "room-bounce" or "room-direct" unit. Having two people able to use that wrap-around light in a neat idea and I hope you can make it work.

I have been avoiding ETTL. Pure fear, lack of experience, I admit! So I cannot tell you if ETTL is retained with one of these splitters.

So this setup is two senders and two receivers. I use Odin, still learning all its capabilities. I think if I were to do this it would require a separate Odin controller, and I never asked what just a controller costs.

Hope you can find a good solution for your particular needs.

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2013, 03:07:45 PM »

brianleighty

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 08:34:55 PM »
Brian,
I imagined this was for events like weddings, gatherings, one-room meetings. I -- personally -- would have wanted a manual flash lighting the room attached high (best) or on a light stand placed inconspicuously. (I keep a weird set of clamps and hardware for this.) I would not want that level to change, although of course throughout the space its level will be different.  Then I would try to have my on-camera strobe act as fill to a light that appeared to be ambient but was actually from that "room-bounce" or "room-direct" unit. Having two people able to use that wrap-around light in a neat idea and I hope you can make it work.

I have been avoiding ETTL. Pure fear, lack of experience, I admit! So I cannot tell you if ETTL is retained with one of these splitters.

So this setup is two senders and two receivers. I use Odin, still learning all its capabilities. I think if I were to do this it would require a separate Odin controller, and I never asked what just a controller costs.

Hope you can find a good solution for your particular needs.


Thanks Jonathan. Yes this is mainly for weddings. The issue obviously is that a chapel can be quite large so unless you can position the "ambient" light far enough away the falloff can be pretty quick and if you can put it far away you're giving up light output and softness in exchange.  I have done something similar to what your describing. Instead of Speedlights I used a Alienbee bounced off the projector screen. It worked pretty well. Only think I might have done different is using two instead of one so I could have one on each side. If you're interested the ceremony shots are were shot this way here:
http://leightyphotography.com/weddings/crystal-and-jeremy

The main issue I had here was that since it was manual I didn't have ambient light output adjusted automatically and was close to having quite a few of the shots blown out. Hence my interest in checking out doing the same sort of thing but with speedlights.
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jonathan7007

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 09:29:00 PM »
PM sent.

CliveB

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2013, 08:05:41 PM »
From "The Other YN-622C User Guide" p.10:

Two-Shooter Setup (John UK technique)
A second shooter can share augmenting flashes. There is a problem – preventing the zooming and firing of the other camera’s on-top flash.
•   Camera 1 set to E-TTL or Manual, and Firing Group A:B at some ratio/power.
•   On-camera 622 set to Remote mode and Group C, with an on-top flash.
•   Camera 2 set up the same.
•   Enhancing flash stand with remote 622 set to Group B, plus flash.
•   When either camera takes a shot, it's on-top flash is treated as Group A, the augmenting flash as Group B, and the other camera as Group C. Group C is not enabled in Firing Group A:B, so does not fire.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B77OmmGIg0gMVFpqNkpBYXBHajA
Clive

brianleighty

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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 07:43:04 PM »
From "The Other YN-622C User Guide" p.10:

Two-Shooter Setup (John UK technique)
A second shooter can share augmenting flashes. There is a problem – preventing the zooming and firing of the other camera’s on-top flash.
•   Camera 1 set to E-TTL or Manual, and Firing Group A:B at some ratio/power.
•   On-camera 622 set to Remote mode and Group C, with an on-top flash.
•   Camera 2 set up the same.
•   Enhancing flash stand with remote 622 set to Group B, plus flash.
•   When either camera takes a shot, it's on-top flash is treated as Group A, the augmenting flash as Group B, and the other camera as Group C. Group C is not enabled in Firing Group A:B, so does not fire.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B77OmmGIg0gMVFpqNkpBYXBHajA

Awesome!!! I seriously missed that. Thank you sir.
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Re: YN-622C multiple on camera flashes
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 07:43:04 PM »