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Author Topic: Kiss of death . . .  (Read 8175 times)

Dom

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Kiss of death . . .
« on: August 25, 2011, 04:35:55 AM »
To back up a pair of pro bodies I have always travelled with a 'pro compact'.  However, the nature of my photographic work is such that I require a powerful lens on the compact.

I have never managed to bring myself to get rid of any of my old Canons, so now have, in effect, my own mini museum.  While glancing through the cameras last night, I realised that I seem to put  kiss of death on the production line of any 'pro compact' that I buy: rarely does that camera line manage more than one incarnation.  If the product line does continue, there is a 3 to 4 year gap between models.

My 'collection' starting with the oldest:

  • 1990 - EPOCA (magnificent 35mm with 35-105 lens, superseded by the EPOCA135 in 1992, then line ended)
  • 1998 - PowerShot Pro 70 (6-15mm zoom, 1.7MP, in the days when digital cameras didn't have zooms!)
  • 2001 - PowerShot Pro 90 (7-70mm, 3.2MP)
  • 2004 - PowerShot Pro 1 (7.2-50mm L, 8MP, I love this camera - 8MP seven years ago and an L Series lens)
  • 2008 - PowerShot SX1 IS (5-100mm, 10MP, a bit lightweight and plastic after the Pro 1, but no other option)

Since buying my PowerShot Pro 1 in 2004, there has only been one 'pro-ish' powerful zoom compact (SX1 IS).  By contrast the  'consumer' range of powerful zoom compacts has evolved at the rate of one each year since.  I'm no gambler, but I see a PowerShot SX50 IS coming out this year!
  • 2004 - PowerShot S1 IS
  • 2005 - PowerShot S2 IS
  • 2006 - PowerShot S3 IS
  • 2007 - PowerShot S5 IS
  • 2008 - PowerShot SX10 IS
  • 2009 - PowerShot SX20 IS
  • 2010 - PowerShot SX30 IS

So, what of the future . . . there must be enough people in the World who want a high quality, powerful compact, to justify another model being produced?  Something with the build of a G-Series, but a 20x (or more) zoom?  I have had a look at the PowerShot SX30, but it is a definite step down from the SX1 (which itself was a big step down in terms of build quality from the Pro 1).  The G12 is a lovely camera which I have had the pleasure to use, but try having that as an emergency back-up for wildlife photography in Africa . . . not quite punchy enough on the lens front!

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Kiss of death . . .
« on: August 25, 2011, 04:35:55 AM »

Gothmoth

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2011, 04:49:39 AM »
personally i don´t care about canon "compacts".

i have used a zillion compacts ... any small sensor camera that was build by panasonic, olympus, nikon, canon, casio, fuji, ricoh.

i never was really happy with them.

today when i don´t want to carry my DSLR around i grab my GF2 or E-PL1.
it also fits nicely in my backpack when i travel.
i eagerly wait for the panasonic GF PRO model.

i know m43 is not really compact with the big lenses.... but then image quality is what matter most. and i could not stand the smearish images of the compacts any longer.

but the powershot SX1 and co. are not small either.

 

« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 04:53:53 AM by Gothmoth »

koolman

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2011, 05:51:28 AM »
To back up a pair of pro bodies I have always travelled with a 'pro compact'.  However, the nature of my photographic work is such that I require a powerful lens on the compact.

I have never managed to bring myself to get rid of any of my old Canons, so now have, in effect, my own mini museum.  While glancing through the cameras last night, I realised that I seem to put  kiss of death on the production line of any 'pro compact' that I buy: rarely does that camera line manage more than one incarnation.  If the product line does continue, there is a 3 to 4 year gap between models.

My 'collection' starting with the oldest:

  • 1990 - EPOCA (magnificent 35mm with 35-105 lens, superseded by the EPOCA135 in 1992, then line ended)
  • 1998 - PowerShot Pro 70 (6-15mm zoom, 1.7MP, in the days when digital cameras didn't have zooms!)
  • 2001 - PowerShot Pro 90 (7-70mm, 3.2MP)
  • 2004 - PowerShot Pro 1 (7.2-50mm L, 8MP, I love this camera - 8MP seven years ago and an L Series lens)
  • 2008 - PowerShot SX1 IS (5-100mm, 10MP, a bit lightweight and plastic after the Pro 1, but no other option)

Since buying my PowerShot Pro 1 in 2004, there has only been one 'pro-ish' powerful zoom compact (SX1 IS).  By contrast the  'consumer' range of powerful zoom compacts has evolved at the rate of one each year since.  I'm no gambler, but I see a PowerShot SX50 IS coming out this year!
  • 2004 - PowerShot S1 IS
  • 2005 - PowerShot S2 IS
  • 2006 - PowerShot S3 IS
  • 2007 - PowerShot S5 IS
  • 2008 - PowerShot SX10 IS
  • 2009 - PowerShot SX20 IS
  • 2010 - PowerShot SX30 IS

So, what of the future . . . there must be enough people in the World who want a high quality, powerful compact, to justify another model being produced?  Something with the build of a G-Series, but a 20x (or more) zoom?  I have had a look at the PowerShot SX30, but it is a definite step down from the SX1 (which itself was a big step down in terms of build quality from the Pro 1).  The G12 is a lovely camera which I have had the pleasure to use, but try having that as an emergency back-up for wildlife photography in Africa . . . not quite punchy enough on the lens front!

Dom: The prices of DSLR's have some so close to the compacts - why not just throw a rebel into your bag as the backup camera?

A t2i with a canon 35mm f/2 + 70-200 f4 IS - should more then cover anything you would need.
Jerusalem Photographer (canon t2i, 50 1.4, Tamron 17-50 non VC, canon 60mm, canon 35mm L,Samyang 14mm MF,Voigtlander 20mm MF)

tomscott

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2011, 06:04:47 AM »
I understand your dilemma. I too have a couple of pro bodies with a breadth of lenses but when im out and about and with family its nice to have a compact to shoot the snaps and chuck around and not be too careful with. I like the little indestructible compacts. They are cheap, waterproof, crush resistant, rugged the image quality may not be that great but for 6x4s up to an a4 print they are great. My little canon indestructible is a right mess but its been everywhere, used by kids, dropped, been in swimming pools the ocean, festivals, the bottom of bags. I love it.

I know this is just a consumer product, and the image quality isnt great but its a great solution for 98% of situations! especially great to take in water!

If you wanted to look at something else i suppose the mirror-less are an idea but as your on canon rumours and as canon doesn't have a mirror-less thats probs a no-no. I think the other poster is correct in the fact the low end DSLR has replaced the pro compact, cheap and pretty much endless choice of lenses. The only other option i can think of for you is a rangefinder, a leica?? or is that abit out of the budget!? ;)! haha would be nice tho!

Otherwise the 5D MkII and the 7D are round my neck. But with all the lenses it is a pain in the ass to carry around.. especially traveling. Maybe a twin lens DSLR set up may do you? but same old story still heavy and cant really chuck it around.

Tom scott
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aldvan

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2011, 07:14:10 AM »
Time ago, I've bought a Leica D-Lux 4 as backup/pocket camera for my FFs.
During my first mountain journey after that, I decided to bring with me just the Leica, with its beautiful leather case tied to the belt. The sensation of freedom was wonderful, but, coming back and revising the pictures I regret not to have with me the big ones. The image quality of the Leica (I agree that it is very little more than a good Panasonic, but having the small red dot is quite exiting...) is very good, but non comparable with a Full Frame's.
Since that first experience I started again to travel with ten kilos of equipment. The only acceptable backup for an FF is a second FF body...

dstppy

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2011, 07:38:14 AM »
Dom: The prices of DSLR's have some so close to the compacts - why not just throw a rebel into your bag as the backup camera?

A t2i with a canon 35mm f/2 + 70-200 f4 IS - should more then cover anything you would need.

This is a very good suggestion.   You said you already had a G12 (that's how I read it at least) so you can still bring that along, but a small crop body can be had for under $500 (with a little work --- get one of the deals that comes with 3 lenses, then sell them each for going used rate but new).

Just remember when packing to include lenses that cover both FF and crop FOV and you'll be good to go.
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Dom

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 07:45:10 AM »
Sadly I don't own a G12, just borrowed one.

But aldvan is quite right - when used to FF, anything else is rather a compromise.

I like the idea of a Leica . . . but I am very (very, very) brand-loyal.  I would love to see Canon producing a rangefinder once again (Fuji managed it!) or a m4/3.

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 07:45:10 AM »

dstppy

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2011, 08:24:52 AM »
Sadly I don't own a G12, just borrowed one.

But aldvan is quite right - when used to FF, anything else is rather a compromise.

I like the idea of a Leica . . . but I am very (very, very) brand-loyal.  I would love to see Canon producing a rangefinder once again (Fuji managed it!) or a m4/3.
Ah, that makes things greatly more expensive then :) 

How long has it been since you shot on a crop camera (or have you ever shot on one?)?  The biggest thing I think may take some getting used to is that the 7D is currently the only Canon crop camera that covers 100% via viewfinder . . . even the 60D has slightly less (no idea about older models).

If you were even considering a portable P&S, the S95 is great for what it does . . . it give you the ability to HAVE a camera that you CAN make do wonderful things . . . when you don't think you need/want to have a camera around but need one in a pinch.  Alas, mine was brazenly stolen and I haven't laid eyes on it since my vacation at the end of last month . . . it's probably still in my wife's bag :)  It's a nice casual shooter.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2011, 08:51:17 AM »
there must be enough people in the World who want a high quality, powerful compact, to justify another model being produced?  Something with the build of a G-Series, but a 20x (or more) zoom?

The problem is that a 'more powerful' compact, by which I presume you mean featuring a long FF-equivalent focal length, is achieved by using a smaller sensor.  To remain compact, even semi-compact, the lens must be kept small.  Cameras like the G12 and S95 produce better quality images in large part because they have much larger sensors (relatively) than the 'superzoom' compacts (~50% more area on a G12/S95 sensor vs. SX30 IS).  A superzoom lens with an image circle large enough to cover a larger sensor would not be so compact anymore.
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UncleFester

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2011, 11:42:42 AM »
  (Fuji managed it!)

They did?

red5

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2011, 01:00:35 PM »
  (Fuji managed it!)

They did?

Dom is probably referring to the Fuji X100.

ronderick

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2011, 09:29:01 PM »
  (Fuji managed it!)

They did?

Dom is probably referring to the Fuji X100.

Well, it's not exactly a rangefinder even though the x100's appearance shares that retro look.
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red5

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2011, 11:30:47 PM »
  (Fuji managed it!)

They did?

Dom is probably referring to the Fuji X100.

True, but it's still probably what he was referring to.

Well, it's not exactly a rangefinder even though the x100's appearance shares that retro look.

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2011, 11:30:47 PM »

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2011, 05:50:09 AM »
  • 1990 - EPOCA (magnificent 35mm with 35-105 lens, superseded by the EPOCA135 in 1992, then line ended)
This user doesn't share that opinion!  My own take...it looks like it has an incorporated 35-80mm "Power Zoom," to which I say no thanks.  But that's part of the tradeoff of compacts, of course, and not a problem specific to the EPOCA line.

UncleFester

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2011, 10:14:55 AM »
  (Fuji managed it!)

They did?

Dom is probably referring to the Fuji X100.

True, but it's still probably what he was referring to.

Well, it's not exactly a rangefinder even though the x100's appearance shares that retro look.

The X100 is not a rangefinder by any stretch of the imagination. Not even close.

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Re: Kiss of death . . .
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2011, 10:14:55 AM »