Help complete my bundle...

[Ginger Jay]

I was under the assumption that FF gave better IQ than crop. So even with the new 70D on the horizon wouldn't the 6D be a better choice?

Is the 6D's auto focus as really bad as everyone says?

[sunnyVan]

I was under the assumption that FF gave better IQ than crop. So even with the new 70D on the horizon wouldn't the 6D be a better choice?

Is the 6D's auto focus as really bad as everyone says?

If you haven't used 7D before you won't feel any difference as far as AF is concerned.  6Ds AF is fine as long as you're used to using center point. The 6D has insane low light capability.  With the 24-105 lens you'll  already feel a drastic difference from where you were before. The 50mm is awesome on your 6D. Great for indoor. 

As for flash I think you can delay  this decision.  Unless you get a discount by buying everything at once, why the rush?  You can start with a used or refurbished 430ex if you want. 600ex-rt is an overkill unless you plan on buying more than  one.

[Wildfire]

I was under the assumption that FF gave better IQ than crop. So even with the new 70D on the horizon wouldn't the 6D be a better choice?

Is the 6D's auto focus as really bad as everyone says?

The 6D's autofocus isn't bad, it's just less effective than some other AF systems out there.

It has 11 autofocus points and they all work great in good light. In low light, the center point (which is more sensitive) will catch focus in situations that would leave any other AF system hunting.

[Hillsilly]

I was under the assumption that FF gave better IQ than crop. So even with the new 70D on the horizon wouldn't the 6D be a better choice?

Is the 6D's auto focus as really bad as everyone says?

Modern APS-C sensors have IQ almost as good to FF sensors in good shooting conditions.  Its only when you start pushing the ISO up that the differences become more noticeable.  In recent years, Canon's APS-C sensors have been lagging a bit compared with the competition, but its widely expected (hoped?) that a generational improvement will come through soon.  If that happens, finding differences between a FF camera and an APS-C camera at low ISO's will be tough - if you look very closely you might notice some differences in the shadows or highlights, but otherwise...

FF sensors retain an advantage with shallow depth of field and blurred backgrounds.  The cameras with FF sensors are also very feature-packed and well built, but also cost more and tend to be bigger and heavier (6D aside?).

All up, its probably best to conclude that a FF sensor is better, but in many common situations you would be hard pressed to see it.

The pricing on the 6D makes me think new FF cameras are within the financial reach of more people.  And as the IQ gap narrows, people will make buying decisions on the features of the camera as a whole (such as high ISO capabilities, AF, weather sealing, viewfinder, FPS, video features etc) without automatically assuming that a FF camera is the be-all and end-all.  If the 7Dii has an improved sensor, I'm going to be very curious about how it performs sale-wise compared with the 6D.

[sjschall]

I would say I'm in a similar situation to you, recreational photography. My favorite advice I've received is that the best gear is the gear you use. It's great to get the expensive fancy stuff but often it's heavy and more than what you or I need - i.e. 70-200 IS II which is an incredible lens but yeah, it's heavy and expensive! IMO a 430exII plus a couple zooms or a zoom and a prime will get you really great results, especially with 6D! Then maybe you can save some of your budget for a future upgrade where you see fit. Maybe you'll decide later that you want more flash power or a wider lens or a faster prime, etc. Good luck!

[RGF]

That's an impressive upgrade. If certain you wanna go FF for sure the 6D is a good choice. Add the 24-105 + 600exrt and you will be set to go for less than your budget. If flash not that important you may wanna go 270ex for fill or a 3rd party which will give room for perhaps a prime lens or a 70-300 telezoom. Good luck with your purchase.

Good advice

[Ginger Jay]

Thanks for the help guys. Everyone has talked about the quality of L glass. Has anyone used Tamron's 24-70 Di VC?  From what little I have read it's not a bad value. Seems like the going prices are $900+ new. Might be worth taking a look at for me at least since I am just a hobbyist.

Also Sigma's 35mm 1.4 since we are talking non-Canon lenses.

[Zv]

I know your set on a 6D and FF is the danglies but consider the 7D for just a second.

My thoughts as to why -

8fps comes in really handy for moving targets.
19 cross type AF points and AF modes to help keep said target in focus.
Better ergonomic design than the 6D, IMO.
Built like a tank (toddler proof?? Hmmm maybe)
Cheap - with the money saved buy better lenses.

Kids are tough to capture. They move around a lot so you need a camera that will keep up. The image quality will only really improve via good lighting and technique. Also maybe via expensive L lens! Going FF does improve IQ but in real life your friends and family won't be able to tell the difference.

[mrsfotografie]

I know your set on a 6D and FF is the danglies but consider the 7D for just a second.

My thoughts as to why -

8fps comes in really handy for moving targets.
19 cross type AF points and AF modes to help keep said target in focus.
Better ergonomic design than the 6D, IMO.
Built like a tank (toddler proof?? Hmmm maybe)
Cheap - with the money saved buy better lenses.

Kids are tough to capture. They move around a lot so you need a camera that will keep up. The image quality will only really improve via good lighting and technique. Also maybe via expensive L lens! Going FF does improve IQ but in real life your friends and family won't be able to tell the difference.

+100 

[Ginger Jay]

I know your set on a 6D and FF is the danglies but consider the 7D for just a second.

My thoughts as to why -

8fps comes in really handy for moving targets.
19 cross type AF points and AF modes to help keep said target in focus.
Better ergonomic design than the 6D, IMO.
Built like a tank (toddler proof?? Hmmm maybe)
Cheap - with the money saved buy better lenses.

Kids are tough to capture. They move around a lot so you need a camera that will keep up. The image quality will only really improve via good lighting and technique. Also maybe via expensive L lens! Going FF does improve IQ but in real life your friends and family won't be able to tell the difference.

Thanks for the advice! Definitely something I will consider.  I know glass is more important than the body. I have heard nothing but good things about the 6D's low ISO capability. How is the 7D's? Mainly just thinking about indoor pics where I don't want to use a flash.

[whothafunk]

7D and indoor shots without flash? the truth? sh*t, especially compared to 5DIII/6D

[mrsfotografie]

7D and indoor shots without flash? the truth? sh*t, especially compared to 5DIII/6D

A good point to consider (although 'sh*t' is a bit strong imho).

[bleephotography]

I know your set on a 6D and FF is the danglies but consider the 7D for just a second.

My thoughts as to why -

8fps comes in really handy for moving targets.
19 cross type AF points and AF modes to help keep said target in focus.
Better ergonomic design than the 6D, IMO.
Built like a tank (toddler proof?? Hmmm maybe)
Cheap - with the money saved buy better lenses.

Kids are tough to capture. They move around a lot so you need a camera that will keep up. The image quality will only really improve via good lighting and technique. Also maybe via expensive L lens! Going FF does improve IQ but in real life your friends and family won't be able to tell the difference.

Thanks for the advice! Definitely something I will consider.  I know glass is more important than the body. I have heard nothing but good things about the 6D's low ISO capability. How is the 7D's? Mainly just thinking about indoor pics where I don't want to use a flash.

The 6D's fps is more than adequate for family captures. If you were shooting fast-paced sports where an extra 5-6 shots were vital, then the 7D would be a no-brainer. However, if you plan on shooting in low light without a flash living on your hotshoe, then the 6D would be a no-brainer; the 7D produces very noticeable grain at 3200+ ISO, whereas the 6D has no problem at 12,800.

Also consider that if you get the 7D, you'll probably want a good general zoom like the 17-55 (27-88mm equivalent in 35 format) and those EF-S lenses will not fit on FF if you plan on upgrading later on. Therefore, my vote is for the 6D in combination with the Canon 24-105 (or Tamron 24-70 VC). You can get a like new/new 6D for around $1600 and a 24-105 for around $600 (or a 24-70 VC for around $1000). Then add a used 70-200 f/4 for around $500 and a 50 f/1.4 for around $300. You'd be set for low light and have 24-200 covered, all within your budget:

$1600 + $600 + $500 + $300 = $3000

...for $300 more you can add a 580EX II as well, or you can purchase a refurbished 600EX-RT (when available) for ~$400 after taxes/shipping. But honestly, unless you plan on shooting multiple flashes without line of sight, a 580 is your best bet.

Good luck!

[chas1113]

Even though you seem set on a 6D, you might consider a Canon refurb 5D Mark II for less money. The real improvement in AF the 6D has over the 5DII is better low-light sensitivity with the center point. Otherwise, the AF system is largely unchanged. The 5DII is a bigger, more robust body overall with ergonomic and feature advantages (flash sync speed, lens micro adjustment, faster shutter speed up to 1/8000, control dial and joystick vs. the jog wheel). The 6D has wireless transfer and GPS, yes, and better high ISO and shadow noise characteristics. The 5D Mark II has slightly higher resolution (hardly worth mentioning, but there it is). Sometimes the latest/greatest isn't necessary.

[whothafunk]

7D and indoor shots without flash? the truth? sh*t, especially compared to 5DIII/6D

A good point to consider (although 'sh*t' is a bit strong imho).

would "poo" be more appropriate? either way, its quite horrible, if you sum up the internet regarding that topic. thats why im holding up for a 7d2, if there will be any news about it before october. otherwise, im going for 1d4, no questions asked