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Author Topic: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]  (Read 70818 times)

CanNotYet

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #285 on: June 30, 2013, 11:27:13 AM »
Ehm, Canon can easily catch up with Nikon et al. They can just buy the Sony sensors too. The question is if they want to or try to catch up/pass them by with their own sensors?

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #285 on: June 30, 2013, 11:27:13 AM »

unfocused

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #286 on: June 30, 2013, 11:28:58 AM »
...A doctor of engineering I believe, added a remark on another forum that it was impossible for Canon at this stage to catch up with the competition? I know nothing about it but he researched it and came to this conclusion...

A dermatologist is an M.D., but if I need a heart bypass, I won't be going to one. Unless your "doctor of engineering" actually works in Canon's research labs, he knows nothing more than you or me.
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #287 on: June 30, 2013, 01:52:53 PM »
...A doctor of engineering I believe, added a remark on another forum that it was impossible for Canon at this stage to catch up with the competition? I know nothing about it but he researched it and came to this conclusion...

A dermatologist is an M.D., but if I need a heart bypass, I won't be going to one. Unless your "doctor of engineering" actually works in Canon's research labs, he knows nothing more than you or me.

That's not true, it requires investment of billions USD   to get the same sensor lines as  for example Sony has.
There is no indications of that has be done  in the annual reports from Canon or from the market, it is  necessary for example to buy  new  steppers and   lenses  from zeiss and  in the million dollar  class  to the lithography equipment for larger sensor areas as APS and 24x36.

Your statement is just as untrue. Canon designs and builds their own lithography equipment, builds their own lenses, their own steppers, and are just as capable of DOING that if they CHOOSE TO as anyone else. I'd also point out that while Sony has spent tens of billions of dollars in borrowed money, putting their bond status to "junk", Canon has been raking in the hundreds of billions through sales alone. Canon is more than capable of spending a billion or two to create a fab capable of fabricating 180nm, 90nm, or even 65nm parts. It is a matter of whether they choose to or not. The one thing about Canon is they know when to protect their bottom line...and now really is the time. The market is stiffer, the majority of modern sensor development applies to markets Canon cares nothing about (very small form factor sensors for small form factor devices like phones, phablets and tablets) and which do not present significant competition to their primary markets, devastating natural disasters that are unpredictable, and when they hit require reserves of money to recover from, and at the moment the competition is still barely putting a dent in Canon's dominant market share despite their supposedly radically superior "technology".

If and when Canon actually feels the pain of all the innovation going on in the marketplace, I don't doubt they will compete. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn they have a number of their own sensor manufacturing techniques to improve their designs up their sleeve, which they will drop on the competition when it serves them best. Technology is only part of the game, and if Canon's success and market share are telling in any way, not the most important part.
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killerBEEcamaro

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #288 on: June 30, 2013, 02:06:48 PM »
this is indeed a nice upgrade from the 60D... i will be upgrading to the 70D and picking up the 5D Mark III soon!!
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erda

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #289 on: June 30, 2013, 02:24:32 PM »
Not sure if it's been discussed, but does it have MFA?
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Plainsman

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #290 on: June 30, 2013, 02:25:03 PM »
It was rather stupid of Canon not to give AFMA to the 60D.

I hope this facility returns in the 70D to make it a serious camera.

jdramirez

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List
« Reply #291 on: June 30, 2013, 03:19:20 PM »
Well... does anyone every really pay list price?  My 70-200mm f/2.8L IS mkii is listed at $4000 if I recall correctly.  If anyone wants to buy my used one for $3000... give me a call.  It is a 25% discount!


List price of 70-200 f2.8 IS Mk II is $2,499 http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/lenses-flashes/telephoto-zoom-lenses/ef-70-200mm-f-28l-is-ii-usm?WT.mc_id=C126149 with $300 rebate, price is $2,199. That is the also the price at B&H, Adorama and Amazon and is the mandated minimum advertised price under Canon policies. So, yes, people do pay list price.

The 25% off list that you are offering brings it down to $1,649. I'm not interested, but others may be.


I wonder which lens I saw that was 50% off.  Ehh... but I did buy the 70-200 in like new condition for $1700... so I guess I did get nearly a 25% off discount. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100 f/2.8L->85mm f/1.8 USM->135L -> 8mm ->100L

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List
« Reply #291 on: June 30, 2013, 03:19:20 PM »

pedro

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #292 on: June 30, 2013, 03:24:53 PM »

Your statement is just as untrue. Canon designs and builds their own lithography equipment, builds their own lenses, their own steppers, and are just as capable of DOING that if they CHOOSE TO as anyone else. I'd also point out that while Sony has spent tens of billions of dollars in borrowed money, putting their bond status to "junk", Canon has been raking in the hundreds of billions through sales alone. Canon is more than capable of spending a billion or two to create a fab capable of fabricating 180nm, 90nm, or even 65nm parts. It is a matter of whether they choose to or not. The one thing about Canon is they know when to protect their bottom line...and now really is the time. The market is stiffer, the majority of modern sensor development applies to markets Canon cares nothing about (very small form factor sensors for small form factor devices like phones, phablets and tablets) and which do not present significant competition to their primary markets, devastating natural disasters that are unpredictable, and when they hit require reserves of money to recover from, and at the moment the competition is still barely putting a dent in Canon's dominant market share despite their supposedly radically superior "technology".

If and when Canon actually feels the pain of all the innovation going on in the marketplace, I don't doubt they will compete. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn they have a number of their own sensor manufacturing techniques to improve their designs up their sleeve, which they will drop on the competition when it serves them best. Technology is only part of the game, and if Canon's success and market share are telling in any way, not the most important part.

There surely are intresting times ahead of us according to jrista. Hope Canon will choose to present a thoroughly new sensor fabrication approach ASAP.  8)
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tcmatthews

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #293 on: June 30, 2013, 04:50:12 PM »
If it was out last September I would have bought one to replace my destroyed 60d in a second.  But I ended up buying a new 60d so I can wait.

I am not really interested in Live-view auto-focus On sensor focusing unless it is as fast as standard phase detection.  I will wait to see the sensor performance.  I really need improved ISO performance. I would like a sharper image personally forget video and remove the AA filter. If the performance is not up to snuff I can wait for the 7d II.

My main concern is that Canon will fail to launch a new sensor process in time and go the way of Kodak.  Lets face it normal everyday point and shoots are being replaced  by cell phones and with out the low end mass market consumer products the DSLR will get much more expensive as R&D is spread out over fewer and fewer products.

So the question is not will new sensor tech arrive the question is will it arrive in time for Canon to stay relevant.  The competition is not standing still, working on organic sensors and such.  So Canon really needs a game changer. 

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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #294 on: June 30, 2013, 05:42:51 PM »
My main concern is that Canon will fail to launch a new sensor process in time and go the way of Kodak.  Lets face it normal everyday point and shoots are being replaced  by cell phones and with out the low end mass market consumer products the DSLR will get much more expensive as R&D is spread out over fewer and fewer products.

So the question is not will new sensor tech arrive the question is will it arrive in time for Canon to stay relevant.  The competition is not standing still, working on organic sensors and such.  So Canon really needs a game changer.

As soon as people start buying bare silicon CMOS sensors, Canon will have cause for concern. They sell cameras, not sensors.  Reality trumps DxOMark measurements of sensor performance....and the reality is that Canon makes an excellent system of cameras, lenses, and accessories that are capable of producing excellent images.  They're the market leader for a reason...
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #295 on: June 30, 2013, 06:24:39 PM »

Your statement is just as untrue. Canon designs and builds their own lithography equipment, builds their own lenses, their own steppers, and are just as capable of DOING that if they CHOOSE TO as anyone else. I'd also point out that while Sony has spent tens of billions of dollars in borrowed money, putting their bond status to "junk", Canon has been raking in the hundreds of billions through sales alone. Canon is more than capable of spending a billion or two to create a fab capable of fabricating 180nm, 90nm, or even 65nm parts. It is a matter of whether they choose to or not. The one thing about Canon is they know when to protect their bottom line...and now really is the time. The market is stiffer, the majority of modern sensor development applies to markets Canon cares nothing about (very small form factor sensors for small form factor devices like phones, phablets and tablets) and which do not present significant competition to their primary markets, devastating natural disasters that are unpredictable, and when they hit require reserves of money to recover from, and at the moment the competition is still barely putting a dent in Canon's dominant market share despite their supposedly radically superior "technology".

If and when Canon actually feels the pain of all the innovation going on in the marketplace, I don't doubt they will compete. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn they have a number of their own sensor manufacturing techniques to improve their designs up their sleeve, which they will drop on the competition when it serves them best. Technology is only part of the game, and if Canon's success and market share are telling in any way, not the most important part.


There surely are intresting times ahead of us according to jrista. Hope Canon will choose to present a thoroughly new sensor fabrication approach ASAP.  8)


some people also think Elvis still are alive, what is the odds that one company=Canon have something special in their sleeves regarding sensors ? This is not 2003 when Canon was alone with a cmos, today there are 100 of companies involved in sensor tech and research and there are  some big names out there  as Panasonic, Aptina, Omnivision, Renesas, Toshiba  and Sony etc. The new tech comes from  the mobile camera research and Canon does not participate
I recommend  you all to read  http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.se and se whats going on, and to believe that Canon as one company have something extra going on in todays sensor world is  a very optimistic   view.
unrealistic in my eyes


The vast majority of the sensor research linked through that site is unrelated to stills photography. The majority of the sensor patents and designs there are for the mobile device market, with the next highest portion dedicated to video sensors. There ARE some amazing innovations there (such as organic sensors, which replace photodiodes with organic light sensing mediums in a pseudo-backlit design), however most of those innovations are geared towards improving light gathering potential for incredibly TINY sensors...stuff that is a fraction of a fraction of an inch in size on the long side. Definitely the stuff that will drive high volume sales...most of it for 8" wafers...very little has anything to do with professional photography or large sensor design (it will be a long time before we see pixel sizes down to 2.5┬Ám or smaller in the DSLR world, if we ever do.)

A lot of the readout logic innovations are geared towards 4k video readout...I read something not too long ago on that site that mentioned a Gfps...GigaFPS...a billion frames per second. That kind of research, while yes amazing, is incredibly niche. Video cameras capable of recording a billion frames a second is the kind of thing you find in scientific and military grade equipment...not the kind of thing your average pro or semi-pro photographer carts around.

There ARE some innovations you can find by perusing that site that definitely have applications to stills photography. Not nearly as many as for other markets, but there are some. Is Canon competing in that market? Well, we don't know. That is the only FACT anyone can actually put forward at this point. Canon was top dog, with the best sensors, until four years ago. Then they went quiet. Over those four years, Canon focused on what they do...make superior CAMERAS. The 1D X is a phenomenal CAMERA. It has a great sensor, with some amazing high ISO performance. It's low ISO DR sucks. But hey...its a Phenomenal --> CAMERA <--!! The Nikon D4 is certainly no better, and in many respects...respects that matter to professional photographers, such as ergonomics, button placement, etc....it is worse than the 1D X. It's AF performance is definitely not on par with the 1D X. It too, is a great camera...no reason Nikon users would EVER have to complain about the results the D4 can get. But the 1D X has changed a lot of die hard Nikon user hearts. Hell, one of the people I thought went Nikon for life a while ago, Andy Rouse (world renown wildlife photographer) used a 1D X once and ditched his entire Nikon kit...went on his next major wildlife outing with two 1D X's...for the first time, never been used...he loved it that much.

No, Canon is not competing in the highly innovative mobile CMOS sensor market. No, Canon is not really competing in the highly competitive high end professional cinematography CMOS sensor market (not yet...they made an entry...again, the only FACT we have now at the moment is that Canon put their foot into the midrange cinematography market...only TIME will tell where they actually take it, and what kinds of innovations they produce in the future.

Canon IS competing in the STILLS PHOTOGRAPHY market for LARGER form factor sensors, namely APS-C and FF. The FACT is, Canon is still the reigning king in that market. They have been for a long time, they will be for a long time (as evidenced by the fact that even the mighty D800 couldn't topple the woefully inadequate 5D III with its crappy sensor and terrible DR.) The only facts we have right now, are that Canon has announced the 70D as the first camera in a good long time that does NOT use the tried, true, and way overused 18mp APS-C sensor. The only facts we have right now are that Canon has promised some interesting new things with the 7D sensor. The only facts we have right now...is that we still don't know what those sensors are...how they were manufactured...or what they are capable of.

Your personal opinions about Canon, that they are literally incapable of competing in the sensor market "period", and that they would have to resort to leeching off of other manufacturers in order to actually fabricate something better than they have in the past...are just that: Personal OPINIONS. They aren't facts. It's just more of the Canon hate dribble you regularly love to spew all over this place. Your opinions don't really mean anything. Nothing means anything until someone like Chipworks rips an actual 70D sensor apart and tells everyone whats inside. Until that time, I'll happily continue rumormongering with my fellow Canon users...not because were bleeding heart die-hard fanboys who can't see past the end of our Canon lens. No...just because it's fun to muse about the next potential camera we might buy for OUR existing kits.

Good day, Mikael. Please, stop shitting on everyone.
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ddashti

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #296 on: June 30, 2013, 06:52:12 PM »
Woah, haven't seen a CR3 in a while, this is good news!

Lawliet

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #297 on: June 30, 2013, 07:45:35 PM »
  Reality trumps DxOMark measurements of sensor performance....and the reality is that Canon makes an excellent system of cameras, lenses, and accessories that are capable of producing excellent images.

Even DXOMark trumps DXOMarks sensor score, if I remember the "real life MP equivalent whatever"-score for lenses right. Not that the latter makes any more sense then the former, but...;)

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #297 on: June 30, 2013, 07:45:35 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #298 on: June 30, 2013, 09:12:02 PM »
Yet another thread that has degenerated into a sensor debate....

I shoot with a camera, not a sensor. My camera is a balance of a lot of factors. Today was spent in a kayak and camera choice was dictated by the ability of the camera to fit into a tiny drybag. I brought along a SX-50.... Not the best camera in the world but small and no lens changes... I shot macro shots of dragonflies, wide angle landscapes, and telephoto shots of birds. My DSLR and Lglass spent the day in a bag on the living room floor.... Yes, the DSLR is a better camera and has better glass, but sometimes our requirements call for compromises.

The 70D will be a compromise camera.... Not as good as a 1DX, but better than a rebel. The enthusiastic sales of the 60D indicated that there is a market for it, so it will probably sell quite well. It will sell well because it is a good combination of features for the price and it has the Canon name on it. The vast bulk of buyers will not care about sensors or DXOmark ratings, they just want a good camera that works.

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Pandypix

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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #299 on: June 30, 2013, 09:23:19 PM »
Yet another thread that has degenerated into a sensor debate....

I shoot with a camera, not a sensor. My camera is a balance of a lot of factors. Today was spent in a kayak and camera choice was dictated by the ability of the camera to fit into a tiny drybag. I brought along a SX-50.... Not the best camera in the world but small and no lens changes... I shot macro shots of dragonflies, wide angle landscapes, and telephoto shots of birds. My DSLR and Lglass spent the day in a bag on the living room floor.... Yes, the DSLR is a better camera and has better glass, but sometimes our requirements call for compromises.

The 70D will be a compromise camera.... Not as good as a 1DX, but better than a rebel. The enthusiastic sales of the 60D indicated that there is a market for it, so it will probably sell quite well. It will sell well because it is a good combination of features for the price and it has the Canon name on it. The vast bulk of buyers will not care about sensors or DXOmark ratings, they just want a good camera that works.

I have to agree about using the camera that is suitable for the job I have a waterproof Olympus tough that when I go on my SUP (stand up paddle ) board I can have it on a lanyard around my neck. I get photos of birds sting rays and some lovely reflection shots. No way could I carry a DSLR even with waterproof casing I have to balance hold my paddle frame the shot and click hoping that I stay on my board. Photos are not always exactly what I want but they do hold a memory.
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Re: Canon EOS 70D Spec List [CR3]
« Reply #299 on: June 30, 2013, 09:23:19 PM »