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Author Topic: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?  (Read 22869 times)

Matthew19

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 01:27:15 AM »

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 01:27:15 AM »

red5

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 01:41:44 AM »
Turns out I won't have the budget for the Canon 6D but I know a photographer that wants to sell a 5D Classic that was recently serviced by Canon not too long ago. The whole reason I want to go from a crop camera format to full frame is to print big. I asked a friend that has a 5D and 5D Mark II if I could obtain 20x30" prints from the 5D Classic and he said yes, easily. I'm assuming he means at 300 dpi since that is what WHCC uses.

So since I don't have the means to jump to a newer full frame Canon, the 5D Classic would be a good upgrade?

I did a similar upgrade a few years ago.  I was able to have the 40D and 5Dc at the same time though.  I will say, if the 5Dc had 40D AF and Liveview/larger LCD, I would have just went with 2 5Dc's.  I eventually got a 2nd 5Dc for $500 and sold the 40D for $500, so I got lucky on an even swap, and had dual 5Dc's.  BUT the images that come from the 5Dc were amazing, even at low light.  I agree with everyone that says the 5Dc has a unique look that even a 5D2 doesn't have.  Again I mean "doesn't have", not "can't beat".  I eventually went to sell one of the 5Dc's I had to help fund a 5D2.  I then went to have a 5Dc and 5D2 for dual/simultaneous use (recently got a 5D3 and that is the best camera overall...obviously). While the 5D2 is sharper, with using the same lenses, the bokeh on the 5Dc seems smoother/creamier to me.  That's one thing I still like on the 5Dc.  Other than that, the 5D2 is still a better upgrade if you can raise your budget to the $1200-$1500 range.  If not, don't hesitate on the 5Dc.  It's a great buy, and good upgrade for image quality.  Just remember to ditch any EF-S lenses while you're at it when going to full frame only.

The Bad Duck

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 04:45:45 AM »
Going from 40D to 5Dc, is it a good upgrade? Well, for portraits @low iso then yes, it´s a great upgrade and a 5DIII would not do any better, not even for printing really big.  For landscapes, you need resolution if your landscape is very detailed and you want to print big and let the viewers come close.

What do you want to photograph?

paul13walnut5

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 05:37:26 AM »

Thanks Bob. If you decide to stick your nose right up to the 20x30" print how does it look?

I can't speak for Bob, but I would guess that unless your eyes can focus abnormally close it will be very blurry.
I can guarantee you wont see any noise or details or anything apart from a coloured mush at this distance, so a canon d30 would probably be ok for this.

Do beware of either smudging the print or getting ink on your nose, or knocking the print off of a level hanging.

Sorry to facetious about it, but 100% viewing is a digital era trait, people have and never will view images naturally at this kind of scale.  Any DSLR is going to struggle to fill a 20x30 at 300dpi lovely and sharp, noise free etc.

When you magnify, you magnify faults, lens aberations, moire, shadow noise etc.

You mentioned money was tight.  What lenses do you have for your 40d?  You know your ef-s lenses wont mount? Right?  If you have a 17-85 or 18-55 it ain't gonna work, you'll need a new WA zoom that covers full frame.  The one thing folk always say about the 5dc is that it really shames cheap lenses...

Not saying don't do it, but a new body is only part of your new system.
What about a fast portrait lens?  Do you have an 85 or 100 already?

I will say don't view finished prints nose to glass.  You'll only ever be frustrated.

pulseimages

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2013, 01:09:33 AM »

Thanks Bob. If you decide to stick your nose right up to the 20x30" print how does it look?

I can't speak for Bob, but I would guess that unless your eyes can focus abnormally close it will be very blurry.
I can guarantee you wont see any noise or details or anything apart from a coloured mush at this distance, so a canon d30 would probably be ok for this.

Do beware of either smudging the print or getting ink on your nose, or knocking the print off of a level hanging.

Sorry to facetious about it, but 100% viewing is a digital era trait, people have and never will view images naturally at this kind of scale.  Any DSLR is going to struggle to fill a 20x30 at 300dpi lovely and sharp, noise free etc.

When you magnify, you magnify faults, lens aberations, moire, shadow noise etc.

You mentioned money was tight.  What lenses do you have for your 40d?  You know your ef-s lenses wont mount? Right?  If you have a 17-85 or 18-55 it ain't gonna work, you'll need a new WA zoom that covers full frame.  The one thing folk always say about the 5dc is that it really shames cheap lenses...

Not saying don't do it, but a new body is only part of your new system.
What about a fast portrait lens?  Do you have an 85 or 100 already?

I will say don't view finished prints nose to glass.  You'll only ever be frustrated.

I have two 40D bodies and I'm planning on selling one of them. For lenses I have the EF-S 10-22, EF 17-40 L, EF 28-80 L, EF 70-200 2.8 L and EF 100 2.8 Macro. So I have the glass to migrate to Full Frame.

I shoot classic cars, landscapes, cityscapes and people. I have shown my car images to a few galleries in the past month and have show them 12x18" images on 16x20" paper and they all told me I need to go bigger print wise. I had one person visibly disappointed saying he wish he could print one of my 40D images to 20x30" but he knows it would look like crap.

I said to this guy I thought in general the bigger the print the farther away the viewing distance. His reply was "you would hope so, but the majority of my clients stick their nose right up to the glass and want to see detail in the prints." In fact he says everyone does it including himself.

G-V

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2013, 01:25:47 AM »
Turns out I won't have the budget for the Canon 6D but I know a photographer that wants to sell a 5D Classic that was recently serviced by Canon not too long ago. The whole reason I want to go from a crop camera format to full frame is to print big. I asked a friend that has a 5D and 5D Mark II if I could obtain 20x30" prints from the 5D Classic and he said yes, easily. I'm assuming he means at 300 dpi since that is what WHCC uses.

So since I don't have the means to jump to a newer full frame Canon, the 5D Classic would be a good upgrade?

Of course the 5D will be better than your 40D, but both cameras are very old so of course it would be better to save up and get a 6D.
Canon 6D + EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM

Canon 50D + EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM

Alrik89

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2013, 03:04:39 AM »
I shoot classic cars, landscapes, cityscapes and people. I have shown my car images to a few galleries in the past month and have show them 12x18" images on 16x20" paper and they all told me I need to go bigger print wise. I had one person visibly disappointed saying he wish he could print one of my 40D images to 20x30" but he knows it would look like crap.

Conclusion: You've never been making a 20x30"-print
Recommendation: Make a 20x30"-print and see the result. Then make your decision.

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2013, 03:04:39 AM »

pulseimages

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2013, 03:46:44 AM »
I shoot classic cars, landscapes, cityscapes and people. I have shown my car images to a few galleries in the past month and have show them 12x18" images on 16x20" paper and they all told me I need to go bigger print wise. I had one person visibly disappointed saying he wish he could print one of my 40D images to 20x30" but he knows it would look like crap.

Conclusion: You've never been making a 20x30"-print
Recommendation: Make a 20x30"-print and see the result. Then make your decision.

You mean make a 20x30''print from my 40D? At that size and at 300 dpi I know it will look like crap.

Alrik89

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2013, 04:07:28 AM »
I shoot classic cars, landscapes, cityscapes and people. I have shown my car images to a few galleries in the past month and have show them 12x18" images on 16x20" paper and they all told me I need to go bigger print wise. I had one person visibly disappointed saying he wish he could print one of my 40D images to 20x30" but he knows it would look like crap.

Conclusion: You've never been making a 20x30"-print
Recommendation: Make a 20x30"-print and see the result. Then make your decision.

You mean make a 20x30''print from my 40D? At that size and at 300 dpi I know it will look like crap.

Hmmm... i thought, only another person does know it and you don't.
And as you said: it depends on the viewing distance. They guy above mentioned, his clients are sticking their noses close to the poster.
What are your clients doing?

pulseimages

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2013, 04:20:30 AM »
I shoot classic cars, landscapes, cityscapes and people. I have shown my car images to a few galleries in the past month and have show them 12x18" images on 16x20" paper and they all told me I need to go bigger print wise. I had one person visibly disappointed saying he wish he could print one of my 40D images to 20x30" but he knows it would look like crap.

Conclusion: You've never been making a 20x30"-print
Recommendation: Make a 20x30"-print and see the result. Then make your decision.

You mean make a 20x30''print from my 40D? At that size and at 300 dpi I know it will look like crap.

Hmmm... i thought, only another person does know it and you don't.
And as you said: it depends on the viewing distance. They guy above mentioned, his clients are sticking their noses close to the poster.
What are your clients doing?

The same thing. Even I do it when I see a photograph hanging on the wall. I can't tell you how many big printed images I have seen up close on a wall that makes me think who are they kidding with this sub par quality.


Alrik89

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2013, 04:27:00 AM »
The same thing. Even I do it when I see a photograph hanging on the wall. I can't tell you how many big printed images I have seen up close on a wall that makes me think who are they kidding with this sub par quality.

And then you think, the 10% more pixels on the length and on the width of your poster (12.8 MP vs 10.1MP) will make you happy?

dtaylor

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2013, 07:55:44 AM »
The same thing. Even I do it when I see a photograph hanging on the wall. I can't tell you how many big printed images I have seen up close on a wall that makes me think who are they kidding with this sub par quality.

The 5Dc is not going to provide a significant IQ boost over the 40D. It will be sharper out of camera (but not after post work), it will yield a bit more detail, and less noise at upper ISOs. But that's it. Nor does it have the pixels for a 30" print of challenging subject matter (i.e. landscape) critically viewed at a close distance. I'm not saying such a print would be bad. But if you're as picky as you claim, you will want more.

I consider Canon's 18 MP crop and 21 MP FF sensors to be 24" print sensors given those conditions. And yes, I do regularly print 20" and 24" from an Epson 3880. They're still good at 30", but at that point you start to cross over into territory where higher resolution sensors (or stitched images) are clearly better.

Again, this is for critically reviewed prints of subject matter with challenging fine detail. If you have less challenging subject matter or viewing conditions, then you can go larger. For example, even the 8 MP generation could produce great 1-2 person portrait prints at 24-30".

If you must have FF, save your pennies and get a current >20 MP FF body. If you're fine with crop, get whatever 18 MP body you can afford. (Bummer being this generation sensor is due for replacement. But it's still quite good.)

paul13walnut5

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2013, 08:51:26 AM »

I have two 40D bodies and I'm planning on selling one of them. For lenses I have the EF-S 10-22, EF 17-40 L, EF 28-80 L, EF 70-200 2.8 L and EF 100 2.8 Macro. So I have the glass to migrate to Full Frame.


You don't.  The 17-40 is just about acceptable on APS-C.  I say just about because I sold mine when I got an 18-55 is kit lens that outperformed it. Seriously.  I have never used it on full frame, but do read some reviews before you think it is a lens suitable for a full frame camera:

http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/427-canon_1740_4_5d?start=2
http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/31/cat/all  (check out the full frame results)

Remember what I said about the 5D needing great glass, and remember that you want to print it large.  You can make your own call, but I don't think these discerning clients are going to be happy with a full frame image printed very large from the 17-40.

Re: can the 40D print big enough.  Print it and see.  Got to be cheaper than blindly buying a new body.  It's great to take opinions, but other folk, including me, aren't always right...

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2013, 08:51:26 AM »

pulseimages

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2013, 07:32:33 PM »
The same thing. Even I do it when I see a photograph hanging on the wall. I can't tell you how many big printed images I have seen up close on a wall that makes me think who are they kidding with this sub par quality.

The 5Dc is not going to provide a significant IQ boost over the 40D. It will be sharper out of camera (but not after post work), it will yield a bit more detail, and less noise at upper ISOs. But that's it. Nor does it have the pixels for a 30" print of challenging subject matter (i.e. landscape) critically viewed at a close distance. I'm not saying such a print would be bad. But if you're as picky as you claim, you will want more.

I consider Canon's 18 MP crop and 21 MP FF sensors to be 24" print sensors given those conditions. And yes, I do regularly print 20" and 24" from an Epson 3880. They're still good at 30", but at that point you start to cross over into territory where higher resolution sensors (or stitched images) are clearly better.

Again, this is for critically reviewed prints of subject matter with challenging fine detail. If you have less challenging subject matter or viewing conditions, then you can go larger. For example, even the 8 MP generation could produce great 1-2 person portrait prints at 24-30".

If you must have FF, save your pennies and get a current >20 MP FF body. If you're fine with crop, get whatever 18 MP body you can afford. (Bummer being this generation sensor is due for replacement. But it's still quite good.)

OK, so does the 6D have advantages over the 60D when it comes to printing big prints? I thought FF is the best way to go over APS-C when printing big prints for galleries.

G-V

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2013, 11:30:29 PM »
The same thing. Even I do it when I see a photograph hanging on the wall. I can't tell you how many big printed images I have seen up close on a wall that makes me think who are they kidding with this sub par quality.

The 5Dc is not going to provide a significant IQ boost over the 40D. It will be sharper out of camera (but not after post work), it will yield a bit more detail, and less noise at upper ISOs. But that's it. Nor does it have the pixels for a 30" print of challenging subject matter (i.e. landscape) critically viewed at a close distance. I'm not saying such a print would be bad. But if you're as picky as you claim, you will want more.

I consider Canon's 18 MP crop and 21 MP FF sensors to be 24" print sensors given those conditions. And yes, I do regularly print 20" and 24" from an Epson 3880. They're still good at 30", but at that point you start to cross over into territory where higher resolution sensors (or stitched images) are clearly better.

Again, this is for critically reviewed prints of subject matter with challenging fine detail. If you have less challenging subject matter or viewing conditions, then you can go larger. For example, even the 8 MP generation could produce great 1-2 person portrait prints at 24-30".

If you must have FF, save your pennies and get a current >20 MP FF body. If you're fine with crop, get whatever 18 MP body you can afford. (Bummer being this generation sensor is due for replacement. But it's still quite good.)

OK, so does the 6D have advantages over the 60D when it comes to printing big prints? I thought FF is the best way to go over APS-C when printing big prints for galleries.

Of course the 6D has an advantage - it's FF plus it has a much better sensor.
Canon 6D + EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM

Canon 50D + EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM

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Re: Canon 40D to 5D Classic. Good upgrade?
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2013, 11:30:29 PM »