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Author Topic: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?  (Read 57733 times)

whothafunk

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #135 on: July 29, 2013, 10:10:13 AM »
ill probably make the jump from 550D to 70D. rubbery grip unglued everywhere on my 550D, its too small, and i need FPS, better AF and "better" ISO performance, even if only by small margin. i sometimes find 12800 not enough for indoor sports. some gyms are like dungeons.

i cannot wait for 7D2, and it will most probably be out of my budget area.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 02:55:19 PM by whothafunk »
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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #135 on: July 29, 2013, 10:10:13 AM »

rpt

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #136 on: July 29, 2013, 10:25:19 AM »
So who´s buying the 70d if the ISO performance is the same as 60d´s (or a small improvement)?

The 5DIII was only a small improvement over the 5DII in terms of ISO performance.  I think a few people bought 5DIIIs.  ::)

Well, in my case the 5Diii was a huge improvement over the 30D  8)
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My jump was from the 300D to the 5D3. Absolutely fantastic.

johnhenry

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #137 on: July 29, 2013, 12:18:41 PM »
It would need some dramatic retooling of the sensor. Most gains of ISO are at the expense of more noise. You can play around in camera with binning etc but shirking pixel size means you need to add amplification to gain ISO

I find when I absolutely NEED better light gathering, I reach for my:

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David Hull

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #138 on: July 29, 2013, 12:25:46 PM »
So who´s buying the 70d if the ISO performance is the same as 60d´s (or a small improvement)?

The 5DIII was only a small improvement over the 5DII in terms of ISO performance.  I think a few people bought 5DIIIs.  ::)

Yep... I fall into that group.  I bought it (after the price dropped a bit) to get the better AF system, having had a 5DII for several years and knowing that it did an adequate job for what I needed to do.  In other words since the horrible banding and inadequate DR that the 5DII was known to have ( ;-) ) had never really been a problem, I figured it would not be one in the 5DIII either. 

A tad off topic, but worth mentioning I think, is how much better the metering seems to be in the 5DIII (from the 5DII) when I use it with flash.  I think that the 5DIII / 600RT EX works about as well as any Nikon system I have ever used.

x-vision

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #139 on: July 29, 2013, 01:33:29 PM »
Of course, what Canon really wants you to do is jump lines.

Agree completely.

Canon obviously considers the image quality of their crop cameras to be good enough.
Hence, they don't seem to be making much effort to improve it.

For better image quality, you are indeed invited you to jump lines  ... by spending more ;).

Looking forward, I'm convinced that the 7DII will follow this pattern as well.
Unlike the 7D, the 7DII will use a different sensor than the rest of the crop models, IMO.
So, for better image quality in a crop camera, we'll all be invited to spend more on the 7DII - that is, to jump lines.

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #140 on: July 29, 2013, 01:49:42 PM »

Unlike the 7D, the 7DII will use a different sensor than the rest of the crop models, IMO.
So, for better image quality in a crop camera, we'll all be invited to spend more on the 7DII - that is, to jump lines.

The 7D had a new/different sensor than the rest of the crop bodies when it launched.  That sensor was then used in the T2i/550D, then the 60D, etc.

Even so, I wouldn't expect much better IQ in a 7DII.  It'll likely have 24 MP and IQ not all that much better than the current 18 MP APS-C or the 70D's sensor (or not really better at all).  But it'll have better AF, likely 10 fps, maybe they'll unveil a new metering sensor with more zones (not the 1D X's), etc.

If you want substantially better IQ, Canon wants you to buy a FF camera. 
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x-vision

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #141 on: July 29, 2013, 02:33:24 PM »
... I wouldn't expect much better IQ in a 7DII.   

Canon could keep the same number of megapixels on the 7DII, while tweaking ISO/noise performance.
This will allow ISO/noise on the 7DII to be somewhere in the middle between the 70D/Rebels and the FF models.
So, still an improvement over the rest of the crop cameras - and yet not on the same level as FF.

We'll see. That's what I'm hoping for, at least.

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If you want substantially better IQ, Canon wants you to buy a FF camera.

Agree. FF needs to remain the IQ king. They can risk that.

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #141 on: July 29, 2013, 02:33:24 PM »

Cariboucoach

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #142 on: July 29, 2013, 02:40:01 PM »

So who´s buying the 70d if the ISO performance is the same as 60d´s (or a small improvement)?

That would most likely be me.  As the owner of an aging 40D, I would like to add video, some more pixels, and increased ISO from the 3200 max I have now.  Even if the IQ isn't much better than the 60D, it is still better than the IQ of the 40D.

Budget will probably keep the 7D II out of reach.  FF is also out of the question due to the added expense of getting new lenses, and a speedlite.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 03:04:01 PM by Cariboucoach »
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pedro

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #143 on: July 29, 2013, 03:19:14 PM »
One situation that sure has changed since 7D came out is, that FF has become more affordable again due to the 6D. So if crop is not a decisive element because of range (birders, etc) the 6D surely represents a great tool for a bit more than a current crop body. e.g. the 6D discounts posted by CR guy. My two cents...
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 03:22:02 PM by pedro »
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neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #144 on: July 29, 2013, 03:23:05 PM »
One situation that has changed since 7D came out is FF has become more affordable again due to the 6D. So if crop is not a decisive affair because of range (birders) the 6D surely represents a great tool for a bit more than a current crop body. e.g. the 6D discounts posted by CR guy. My two cents...

With that in mind, one might expect a 7DII priced lower than the 6D...and with a reduced feature set to go along with that price. Still has to differentiate from the 70D, but fps and more MP would cover most of that.
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paul13walnut5

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #145 on: July 29, 2013, 08:38:12 PM »
One situation that has changed since 7D came out is FF has become more affordable again due to the 6D. So if crop is not a decisive affair because of range (birders) the 6D surely represents a great tool for a bit more than a current crop body. e.g. the 6D discounts posted by CR guy. My two cents...

With that in mind, one might expect a 7DII priced lower than the 6D...and with a reduced feature set to go along with that price. Still has to differentiate from the 70D, but fps and more MP would cover most of that.

Or it goes the other way and the 7D2 is more like a mini 1DX.  Integrated grip.  RT.  Dual slots.
An enhanced specification dual pixel focus system?

jrista

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #146 on: July 29, 2013, 09:50:49 PM »
One situation that has changed since 7D came out is FF has become more affordable again due to the 6D. So if crop is not a decisive affair because of range (birders) the 6D surely represents a great tool for a bit more than a current crop body. e.g. the 6D discounts posted by CR guy. My two cents...

With that in mind, one might expect a 7DII priced lower than the 6D...and with a reduced feature set to go along with that price. Still has to differentiate from the 70D, but fps and more MP would cover most of that.

I would think a better AF system would probably also be part of the differentiation. More FPS and better AF along with a competitive increase in MP would be the ideal differentiation to me. I don't think an integrated grip or better weather sealing or 1D X style buttons or anything like that are necessary to make an appropriate differentiation. The 19pt AF system definitely has its issues, though...and I would happily skip the 7D II if it ended up with the same 19pt system the original 7D had. It misfocuses too many times in any given sequence, roughly negating the additional 2fps lead it has over the 5D III.

It doesn't necessarily need to get the 61pt AF system, but something of the same precision, consistency, and accuracy of the 5D III's system would be a key differentiator for reach-hungry shooters looking for a companion to their FF.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #147 on: July 29, 2013, 10:07:56 PM »
One situation that has changed since 7D came out is FF has become more affordable again due to the 6D. So if crop is not a decisive affair because of range (birders) the 6D surely represents a great tool for a bit more than a current crop body. e.g. the 6D discounts posted by CR guy. My two cents...

With that in mind, one might expect a 7DII priced lower than the 6D...and with a reduced feature set to go along with that price. Still has to differentiate from the 70D, but fps and more MP would cover most of that.

I would think a better AF system would probably also be part of the differentiation. More FPS and better AF along with a competitive increase in MP would be the ideal differentiation to me. I don't think an integrated grip or better weather sealing or 1D X style buttons or anything like that are necessary to make an appropriate differentiation. The 19pt AF system definitely has its issues, though...and I would happily skip the 7D II if it ended up with the same 19pt system the original 7D had. It misfocuses too many times in any given sequence, roughly negating the additional 2fps lead it has over the 5D III.

It doesn't necessarily need to get the 61pt AF system, but something of the same precision, consistency, and accuracy of the 5D III's system would be a key differentiator for reach-hungry shooters looking for a companion to their FF.

Yeah the 7D2 really needs to get the 5D3 AF. It does AI servo for surfing amazingly well but for soccer and such it seems closer to me to a 50D than a 1 series for sure. Single shot precision isn't bad, but it's actually not even quite to 5D2 levels and certainly not 5D3, so it's hardly all that amazing either.

I'd really think it would get more or less 5D3 AF (maybe the outer row of points won't fit?). You'd hope they didn't lock out the spot AF and zone AF from the 70D because they plan to re-use full 7D AF in the 7D2 again though....

I can't see the 7D2 getting an integrated grip (and I think that would cause a lot of complaining).

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #147 on: July 29, 2013, 10:07:56 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #148 on: July 29, 2013, 10:10:16 PM »
One situation that has changed since 7D came out is FF has become more affordable again due to the 6D. So if crop is not a decisive affair because of range (birders) the 6D surely represents a great tool for a bit more than a current crop body. e.g. the 6D discounts posted by CR guy. My two cents...

With that in mind, one might expect a 7DII priced lower than the 6D...and with a reduced feature set to go along with that price. Still has to differentiate from the 70D, but fps and more MP would cover most of that.

No way, this many years later and a few extra MP (considering the 70D density really is pretty high already) anda couple extra fps? I don't see that at all, they will get their goose cooked. It's gotta add 5D3-type AF and other stuff to the mix. Don't forget this body will also expected to see for like 2-4 more years!


neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #149 on: July 29, 2013, 10:33:36 PM »
No way, this many years later and a few extra MP (considering the 70D density really is pretty high already) anda couple extra fps? I don't see that at all, they will get their goose cooked. It's gotta add 5D3-type AF and other stuff to the mix. Don't forget this body will also expected to see for like 2-4 more years!

Don't underestimate Canon's ability and willingness to handicap cameras.  ;)  24 MP with Dual Pixel CMOS AF (so they can later pass the 20 MP version to the Rebel/xxxD line and the M, then the 24 MP to the 80D), better AF but not 5DIII/1D X (say 31 AF points, each column on the 7D AF with an extra top/bottom point, but no more columns).  Spot and Zone AF (yes, Virginia, they really left those out of the 70D so, like Santa Claus, they could give them back with the 7DII).  Extras like direct RF control of the -RT Speedlites (a cool, hype-able new feature that oh-by-the-way would boost Speedlite sales).  Just sayin'...
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Re: EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?
« Reply #149 on: July 29, 2013, 10:33:36 PM »