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Author Topic: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?  (Read 16803 times)

EYEONE

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2011, 11:49:54 AM »
It's not likely that anyone will produce a 24 - 105mm f/2.8 IS L.
That is likely what people were saying in late 80's when the 35-70mm f2.8 was being made, and again in the mid 90's with the 28-70mm f2.8, and now with the 24-70mm f2.8.  Look at the progression, what makes you think it will stop?

UWA
20-35mm f2.8 (1989) -> 17-35mm f2.8 (1996) -> 16-35 f2.8 (2001)
Normal
28-80mm f2.8-4 (1989) -> 28-70mm f2.8 (1993) -> 24-70mm f2.8 (2002)
Tele
80-200mm f2.8 (1989) -> 70-200mm f2.8 (1995)

On top of that we could add the Nikon 14-24mm f2.8 to UWA list, and the 35-70mm f2.8 to the Normal list.  Also, we could look further back in history with the FD mount: (24-35mm f3.5 [1979] -> 20-35mm f3.5 [1982]).  Constant aperture zooms have grown from less than 2x (24-35 is 1.46x, for example) to 5x (Nikkor 24-120mm f4).

Well, I have no doubt it can be done. The question becomes there it is practical to do so. The 24-70 f2.8 is already bigger and heavier than the 24-105 f4. The 24-70 already weighs 2lbs. I'm also not sure it's fair to compare f4 zooms to f2.8 zooms.

But, I'm just speaking to the likely hood of a 24-105 f2.8 coming out, not whether or not I would want one  :)
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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2011, 11:49:54 AM »

Radiating

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2011, 09:45:42 PM »
Here is my perspective on your comments:

The physical size of the sensors - is swiftly becoming less and less relevant, as electronics and technology progress.  Having a "FF" sensor - is much less a landmark achievement today. If you compare a 7d with 5 years ago's FF DSLR - you will quickly see that the 7d is far superior in IQ.

I believe this will become even more true in the near future - as superior small sensors will easily outplay larger sensors.

If so, I am not sure I understand the wisdom of purchasing the mark3 for $2,500 ~ just because it is FF. (unless of course you need it for your professional use right away as part of your business as a photographer)

As far as a 24-105 2.8 - Sure such a lens could be produced - however it would be a very large heavy expensive piece for it to retain both IQ and the 2.8 and the focal length. I'm not sure its business savvy to produce such a lens. The 24-105 is aimed as a convenient quality walk around lens,  not a specialty lens.


You seem to be completely uninformed about how cameras work. The physical size of a sensor has never become less and less relevant. What has happened is that companies have been trying to push people into buying crop frame cameras for a decade because they are cheaper to produce.

Fundamentally a crop frame camera is every bit like an MP3 to CD audio quality. Take this comparison of a 7d vs a 5dII on the exact 50mm lens, both below the defraction limit. The 5dII image has been resized so that resolution isn't a factor. The tripod has been moved back and forth and a prime has been used so that zoom isn't a factor:



Same lens same everything, just cold hard physics. Now tell me that full frame is no longer relevant. I've actually done the comparisons both back to back in the real world and in theory and this works due to simple physics.  The truth is, no matter what anyone does a larger sensor will always capture more detail than a smaller sensor assuming everything is equal. On top of that a larger sensor captures more light so it has less noise, has better DOF, and has a wider FOV.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 09:54:15 PM by Radiating »

Peter Hill

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2011, 10:46:33 PM »
To answer the OP:

I have used the 24-70mm f2.8L on a 5D Mark II extensively over the last 3 years. That lens on that body SINGS. Personally, I am not interested in upgrading the 24-70 to any newer IS model. This is mainly because I shoot more often at 24mm than 70mm.

Sometimes it gets forgotten that a lens like the 24-70 lasts a lot longer than your average digital camera body. If the upgrade ever happens it won't mean the original is no longer a good lens.

Yes, the original has been around for a while, but so what? I'm regularly using the original 24mm TS-E and  the 45mm TSE on the 5DM2 and they were made last century.

That's one of the advantages of investing in an EOS system. Every single EF lens ever made, for example, will work on any new Canon EOS DSLR you buy today.

neuroanatomist

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2011, 11:54:34 AM »
Fundamentally a crop frame camera is every bit like an MP3 to CD audio quality. Take this comparison of a 7d vs a 5dII on the exact 50mm lens, both below the defraction limit. The 5dII image has been resized so that resolution isn't a factor. The tripod has been moved back and forth and a prime has been used so that zoom isn't a factor:



Same lens same everything, just cold hard physics. Now tell me that full frame is no longer relevant. I've actually done the comparisons both back to back in the real world and in theory and this works due to simple physics. 


First off, I agree that the 5DII will generally produce superior IQ to the 7D.  But, I will point out a few issues with your test:

First, diffraction begins to affect the 7D at f/6.8, so your shot at f/8 is affected by diffraction.  Shooting at f/6.3 would be a better option.

Second, you aren't comparing the 'same everything' since by moving the 7D further from the subject to maintain framing, but keeping the aperture set to f/8, the shot taken with the 7D has a deeper DoF than that with the 5DII.  To match DoF and thus keep everything the same, you'd have to either set the aperture on the 5DII to f/13 (which would also be a bit past the point at which diffraction begins to affect the 5DII, f/10.3), or set the 7D to f/5. 

Third, "The 5dII image has been resized so that resolution isn't a factor," isn't the case.  A slight downsampling with a good interpolator (e.g. PS bicubic) actually increases sharpness relative to the original.  To make things equal, you could downsample or upsample both images (the relative amount of resampling would be different, but it would be a fairer comparison than resampling one image and not the other).

So, of those three factors, 2 of them (diffraction and resampling) artifically skew the results in favor of the 5DII, and the third (DoF) is neutral (since your entire subject appears to be within the DoF, but if not, the thinner DoF would artifically detract from the 5DII).

I don't disagree with the conclusion - the 5DII offers better IQ - but the differential may not be as great as your testing shows.

Another factor is the AA filter - the high density of the 7D's sensor requires a stronger AA filter, and that reduces actuance (contrast), which makes the resulting images appear less sharp. 

The truth is, no matter what anyone does a larger sensor will always capture more detail than a smaller sensor assuming everything is equal. On top of that a larger sensor captures more light so it has less noise, has better DOF, and has a wider FOV.


Not necessarily.  In the case you mention, where you alter the subject distance to match the framing, yes.  But if you don't do that, with the narrower angle of view afforded by the crop sensor, the 7D will outresolve the 5DII.  That's just basic math - since sensor size does not affect magnification (only AoV), with the same focal length at the same distance, a given subject will cover more pixels of the 7D's 18 MP sensor than the 5DII's 21 MP sensor.  Cropping the 5DII image to the FoV of the 7D results in an 8 MP image.  The relevance is for situations where you're focal length limited (small/distant subjects), you'll get better results shooting with a 7D than shooting with a 5DII and cropping the resulting image. 

Also, 'better' is a relative term.  The FF sensor will have less noise (1.3 stops less), wider FoV, and shallower DoF (for the same subject framing).  If you want deep DoF, FF is not 'better' (although assuming your FF sensor has larger pixels, you can stop down further before diffraction sets in, so it may be a wash). 
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EYEONE

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2011, 12:26:15 PM »
That's one of the advantages of investing in an EOS system. Every single EF lens ever made, for example, will work on any new Canon EOS DSLR you buy today.

Interesting that you bring that up as a positive to buying Canon when Nikon and Pentax have a backward compatibility that spans 50 years or more. While Canon's is only 20 or so.

However, I don't disagree with you. I find that 20 years is plenty.
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kubelik

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2011, 02:41:13 PM »
That's one of the advantages of investing in an EOS system. Every single EF lens ever made, for example, will work on any new Canon EOS DSLR you buy today.

Interesting that you bring that up as a positive to buying Canon when Nikon and Pentax have a backward compatibility that spans 50 years or more. While Canon's is only 20 or so.

However, I don't disagree with you. I find that 20 years is plenty.

I don't think I'd wave the canon flag when it comes to discussions of lens back-compatibility.  especially not to anyone who had to go through the FD-to-EF sea change.  I hope that canon's learnt that lesson and we won't see that happen again in our lifetimes.  a lot of the higher end glass canon produces is stuff that's meant to last a lifetime, so a 19-year life span for a lens mount is absolutely unacceptable.

jdramirez

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2011, 03:53:27 PM »
I was thinking it'd be awesome if Canon offered an f/2.8 version of the 24-105mm that commonly accompanies the 5D as a kit lens.  Has anyone heard anything about such a lens or any other new L glass coming on the market soon?  I live in Japan and have asked some store clerks, but they don't seem interested in sharing any information about new gear given that the current stock is hardly moving.

It might be awesome, but it's pretty unlikely.  More likely is a 24-120mm f/4L IS to match the Nikon offering, and a revised 24-70mm (MkII), with or without IS, has been rumored for a long time. 

Store clerks would be just about the last people to know about any forthcoming products.

That's not entirely true.  I'm in retail and we have company representatives come into the store and they talk about their products, features, and the like. 

We don't have the most advanced up to date knowledge... but I would say your blanket statement is inaccurate.
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XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100 f/2.8L->85mm f/1.8 USM->135L -> 8mm ->100L

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2011, 03:53:27 PM »

dilbert

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2011, 04:19:52 PM »
I was thinking it'd be awesome if Canon offered an f/2.8 version of the 24-105mm that commonly accompanies the 5D as a kit lens.

The 24-70/2.8 *IS* the 2.8 version of the 24-105/4.

Or rather, the 24-105 is the F/4 version of the 24-70 F/2.8.

epsiloneri

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2011, 05:04:40 PM »
The 24-70/2.8 *IS* the 2.8 version of the 24-105/4.

But without the *IS*  ;)

kevl

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2011, 07:22:27 AM »
The 24-70/2.8 *IS* the 2.8 version of the 24-105/4.

But without the *IS*  ;)

LOL exactly.... wish I could have replied with that.

Truth is if Canon released a 24-70 2.8L with IS the could charge whatever they wanted for it... I would dish it out. It would be the perfect video lens for me.

Kev

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2011, 10:20:41 AM »
That's one of the advantages of investing in an EOS system. Every single EF lens ever made, for example, will work on any new Canon EOS DSLR you buy today.

Interesting that you bring that up as a positive to buying Canon when Nikon and Pentax have a backward compatibility that spans 50 years or more. While Canon's is only 20 or so.

However, I don't disagree with you. I find that 20 years is plenty.

I don't think I'd wave the canon flag when it comes to discussions of lens back-compatibility.  especially not to anyone who had to go through the FD-to-EF sea change.  I hope that canon's learnt that lesson and we won't see that happen again in our lifetimes.  a lot of the higher end glass canon produces is stuff that's meant to last a lifetime, so a 19-year life span for a lens mount is absolutely unacceptable.

At the time (mid 1980s), Canon was trying to keep up with Minolta and Nikon.  The FL mount was mechanical and needed to be replaced to outpace the competition.  Was it risky?  Yes, but if you want to be successful in business, you have to take risks.  Since they now have an electronic mount, it's highly unlikely that Canon will have to replace it anytime soon.

It's now 24 years later and Canon has sold more lenses (EF mount) than Nikon has in 50 years, so I would have to say yes, Canon has learnt their lesson.  ;)
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spaceheat

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2011, 11:36:05 AM »
It's not likely that anyone will produce a 24 - 105mm f/2.8 IS L.
That is likely what people were saying in late 80's when the 35-70mm f2.8 was being made, and again in the mid 90's with the 28-70mm f2.8, and now with the 24-70mm f2.8.  Look at the progression, what makes you think it will stop?

UWA
20-35mm f2.8 (1989) -> 17-35mm f2.8 (1996) -> 16-35 f2.8 (2001)
Normal
28-80mm f2.8-4 (1989) -> 28-70mm f2.8 (1993) -> 24-70mm f2.8 (2002)
Tele
80-200mm f2.8 (1989) -> 70-200mm f2.8 (1995)

On top of that we could add the Nikon 14-24mm f2.8 to UWA list, and the 35-70mm f2.8 to the Normal list.  Also, we could look further back in history with the FD mount: (24-35mm f3.5 [1979] -> 20-35mm f3.5 [1982]).  Constant aperture zooms have grown from less than 2x (24-35 is 1.46x, for example) to 5x (Nikkor 24-120mm f4).

You will notice that the short zooms coordinate with the long zooms on your list. If they were to produce a 24-105 f2.8, it would likely mean there would be a move to a 105-300 f 2.8.

The 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8 are the perfect tag team. The 24- 105 2.8 is just too much overlap IMO, unless they were to add the 105-300 2.8... which would be a sweet lens!

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2011, 12:50:36 PM »
It's not likely that anyone will produce a 24 - 105mm f/2.8 IS L.
That is likely what people were saying in late 80's when the 35-70mm f2.8 was being made, and again in the mid 90's with the 28-70mm f2.8, and now with the 24-70mm f2.8.  Look at the progression, what makes you think it will stop?

UWA
20-35mm f2.8 (1989) -> 17-35mm f2.8 (1996) -> 16-35 f2.8 (2001)
Normal
28-80mm f2.8-4 (1989) -> 28-70mm f2.8 (1993) -> 24-70mm f2.8 (2002)
Tele
80-200mm f2.8 (1989) -> 70-200mm f2.8 (1995)

On top of that we could add the Nikon 14-24mm f2.8 to UWA list, and the 35-70mm f2.8 to the Normal list.  Also, we could look further back in history with the FD mount: (24-35mm f3.5 [1979] -> 20-35mm f3.5 [1982]).  Constant aperture zooms have grown from less than 2x (24-35 is 1.46x, for example) to 5x (Nikkor 24-120mm f4).

You will notice that the short zooms coordinate with the long zooms on your list. If they were to produce a 24-105 f2.8, it would likely mean there would be a move to a 105-300 f 2.8.

The 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8 are the perfect tag team. The 24- 105 2.8 is just too much overlap IMO, unless they were to add the 105-300 2.8... which would be a sweet lens!

Lets say we were to frame at 70mm, would we choose the 24-70mm or the 70-200mm ? And why?

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2011, 12:50:36 PM »

unfocused

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2011, 12:57:38 PM »
Quote
The 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8 are the perfect tag team. The 24- 105 2.8 is just too much overlap IMO,

I prefer having some overlap on zoom lenses. In the real world it makes shooting much easier, not having to stop and switch lenses when a subject moves or to get just the right framing.
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K-amps

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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2011, 01:18:32 PM »
Quote
The 24-70 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8 are the perfect tag team. The 24- 105 2.8 is just too much overlap IMO,

I prefer having some overlap on zoom lenses. In the real world it makes shooting much easier, not having to stop and switch lenses when a subject moves or to get just the right framing.

I always thouhgt that lenses are sub-optimal at their extremes, so overlap in lenses could make up for that perhaps?
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Re: New L Series Lenses coming out with the 5D Mk3?
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2011, 01:18:32 PM »