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Author Topic: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures  (Read 8686 times)

jhaces

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2013, 01:53:50 AM »
So how come the OP hasn't come back to clarify some things? Posting the RAW (or an 'unedited' jpg export, if sensitive about copyright) would be useful.

As it is, to me it looks (1) cropped ;) and hazy. Maybe the lens was dirty/foggy? Those purplish spots on the left side seem suspect, but they do look too square (jpg compression) as someone has pointed out already.

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2013, 01:53:50 AM »

justsomedude

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2013, 02:28:28 AM »
Looks like a compressed JPG and an out-of-focus image to boot.

The 7D's AI-servo tracking is not as dreamy as the promotional literature would lead you to believe.  It's good; it's not great.  Fast moving objects, just as planes, will leave the AF system a little lost in the woods.  As such, your results will be hit or miss.

Want better AF tracking for action?  Get a 1DX.

Sorry, that's the reality.

AlanF

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2013, 03:14:55 AM »
I don't think any of you could give this poor guy an even remotely usefull answer... As per usual!

There has been much useful information provided by posters who regularly provide useful answers. The consensus is that his 7D is not particularly noisy, but the camera settings are bad and the image is poorly focussed. More information, which has not been provided, is required for a fuller diagnosis. What more do you want?
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dtaylor

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2013, 03:28:47 AM »
The 7D's AI-servo tracking is not as dreamy as the promotional literature would lead you to believe.  It's good; it's not great.  Fast moving objects, just as planes, will leave the AF system a little lost in the woods.  As such, your results will be hit or miss.

The 7D's tracking is excellent. That said, I'm guessing we're looking at a 100% view, and that the plane was nearly a mile away. There's nothing for AF to track here. Setting the lens on infinity would be sufficient.

Planes aren't usually very challenging for AF. My first DSLR, a 10D, handled them just fine. But no camera can cut through haze and other atmospheric distortion. And some of these aircraft create their own atmospheric distortion while flying.


hamada

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2013, 04:17:28 AM »
But the image provided is a JPG and has been processed.  It is obvious when you magnify the JPG file and see the blocking from JPG compression.

but HE has the problems with a RAW file.
saying "it looks like JPG artifacts" does not help then.  ;)

Quote
As far as HTP and HINR is concerned, I am the source and now turn both off due to the effects it produces on RAW images.  There are a couple of options in the FW that affect raw images and those are two if them.

you know more then the canon engineers.... im impressed... (not) ;)

as far as i know this only affects the metadata of the RAW file so the effect is "rendered" when using DPP. but not visible in a program like lightroom.

afaik that why the manual says it affects the RAW when you print DIRECTLY from camera or view the images from camera.

but the RAW data is not affected by these settings.
so programs who do not interprete this canon metadata tags (afaik all except DPP) will ignore them.

i have tried, in the studio, with identical light conditions, and i did not see an effect.
so if you say it has an effect.... you better prove it or i have to say you are telling nonsense. ;)

« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 04:40:34 AM by hamada »

sandymandy

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2013, 04:27:38 AM »
Turned off Auto Lighting Optimizer? cuz that stuff will boost up dark areas in a photo and increasing noise that way

hamada

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2013, 04:31:42 AM »
Turned off Auto Lighting Optimizer? cuz that stuff will boost up dark areas in a photo and increasing noise that way

again.... not for RAW files (manual: page 75).

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2013, 04:31:42 AM »

pato

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2013, 07:36:40 AM »
Hi Dani
For us to really help you, we need the original RAW image. Could you upload it maybe to some free file hoster like mega.co.nz?
Thanks

justsomedude

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2013, 02:28:22 PM »
The 7D's AI-servo tracking is not as dreamy as the promotional literature would lead you to believe.  It's good; it's not great.  Fast moving objects, just as planes, will leave the AF system a little lost in the woods.  As such, your results will be hit or miss.

The 7D's tracking is excellent.

I disagree with you.  I think the 7D's tracking is adequate at best, and sub-par from an objective standpoint.

But we'll just have to agree to disagree.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2013, 02:41:25 PM »
The 7D's AI-servo tracking is not as dreamy as the promotional literature would lead you to believe.  It's good; it's not great.  Fast moving objects, just as planes, will leave the AF system a little lost in the woods.  As such, your results will be hit or miss.

The 7D's tracking is excellent.

I disagree with you.  I think the 7D's tracking is adequate at best, and sub-par from an objective standpoint.

But we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I thought the 7D's tracking capability was excellent....then I got a 1D X.  :P
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daniela

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2013, 02:01:27 PM »
Thanks for your help.

My son sent the camera to Canon-CPS. First message of the technican:
The AF of a few cameras are lacking  in AI servo of performance at fast objects moving toward the photographer. Moving away is no problem for the AF. They adjusted the sharpness of the lens-camera combination, but there seems to be an malfunction of the program/chip who "reads" the pixels and makes an file out of it.
If so, it will be an expensive repair.  :(

When my son returnes from holiday, he will post the image in raw. But I can not do this here, the filesize is too big.

G
Dani

dtaylor

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2013, 07:29:21 AM »
I disagree with you.  I think the 7D's tracking is adequate at best, and sub-par from an objective standpoint.


An objective standpoint would require published tests neither of us have performed. I am aware of one attempt at such a test: http://www.prophotohome.com/news/2010/03/autofocus-torture-test-updated-canon-1d-mkiv-nikon-d3s-added/

Better then the D3 and 1D3 is not sub-par. (Unless you own a 1DX  ;D )

neuroanatomist

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2013, 07:46:59 AM »
I disagree with you.  I think the 7D's tracking is adequate at best, and sub-par from an objective standpoint.


An objective standpoint would require published tests neither of us have performed. I am aware of one attempt at such a test: http://www.prophotohome.com/news/2010/03/autofocus-torture-test-updated-canon-1d-mkiv-nikon-d3s-added/

Better then the D3 and 1D3 is not sub-par. (Unless you own a 1DX  ;D )


If fact, I think the article you link strongly supports the statement that the 7D's tracking is 'adequate at best, and sub-par from an objective standpoint'. A 73% is a grade of 'C-', and getting something wrong 27% of the time is 'adequate at best'.  While technically a 'C' is 'average' (making a C- slightly below average - aka sub-par), I don't know many people who'd consider getting a C- on their report card to be a good thing. 
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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2013, 07:46:59 AM »

paul13walnut5

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2013, 09:17:36 AM »
7d noise:

It is there, even at iso100.
 
Things to do:
1. Try to expose correctly.  This image isn't.

2. Shoot raw, shoot 18mp.  Around 12 of these are redundant for most uses, resizing a cleaned image can hide a multitude of sins.

3. At the raw conversion stage play with wb exposure contrast so it looks like you want.

4. After previous tweaks reduce luma noise as much as the image can bear, view at 100% try and keep some fine detail in your loupe.  In ACR I find 40-50 cleans up most images without affecting sharpness.

5. If you shot at high iso's the some soft chroma nr may also help.

6. Save as 16bit tiff take into PS open in Lab or channel mode and try slight guassian blur on the offending noisy colour.  Always save the original and wirk on a copy.

7. Finally.  Auto iso?  C'mon. 

The noise issue is common to the four 18mp cameras i've owned, though the m is a stop cleaner over the digic 4's.

7d's AF.

Some folk get a bad camera.  Most folk don't set the 7d up properly, for this kind if shot I would use zone mode, and probably the centre zone.  Ai servo (obviously) and H burst.
I would shoot very short and sporadic bursts of h.  Those gaps give the camera a much better chance if tracking and therfore predicting during mirror up.

Shooting 10s of h burst might work, but shooting track track burst, track track burst will give you less overal shots to trawl through, but a far higher keeper rate. 

You can also experiment with the 7d's tracking behaviour, so that foreground objects are ignored almost entirely (oh yeah and set your lens limiter if you have one.  You can also influence how long the camera 'predicts' for, should the mirror or an object obscure the subject.

The 7d is a great tool, but it demands of it's user.  If you work together the results can be superlative, left to it's own devices it can be a bit wayward.   So whats the point of an automated camera that requires so much forethought to use?  Well it assumes a certain level of technical understanding so that the automation can be targeted smartly, it can make a good photographer even better but will embarrass anybody who wants the af to work well out of the box or use images straight off the card.

Master the 7d and your son will find it an adroit and willing companion for events exactly like airshows.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 10:54:24 AM by paul13walnut5 »

MichaelHodges

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2013, 10:21:21 AM »
The 7D's biggest weakness is noise. You can even see it in the skies at ISO 100. That said, Paul's advice is quite good. You have to get into the habit of nailing exposure in-camera. If you can master this, shooting wildlife at ISO 1600 will even work well.

It's too bad, because it's my favorite "shell" and the 7d is just perfect in the hands the way other Canon DSLR's are not. Can't explain why...but I could hint at a certain density and grip-size, and the way everything is laid out.

If you absolutely can't stand the noise, and your main subjects are landscape and portrait, then there's no reason to own the 7D IMHO.

If you shoot wildlife, experiment with exposure compensation in the field. Use spot metering as well, and a narrow band of focus points.

The 7d is a gem in the field, but not so forgiving in Lightroom. We must learn her tricks well, or move to FF.

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Re: Help needes: EOS 7D - noisy pictures
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2013, 10:21:21 AM »