September 22, 2014, 06:29:15 PM

Author Topic: Why a high MP camera?  (Read 10947 times)

Policar

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2013, 02:42:43 PM »
So, high MP is good but not really necessary while greater dynamic range is paramount. The fact that those features might come in one package is just fine though.
Fred

That's a big generalization. I'm waiting for a high MP/Mark II 45mm and 90mm TSE combination to replace a view camera and Velvia. 4x5 is about as sharp as 60-80MP bayer (or sharper) but has fine detail and tonality way, way beyond that. But it has 4-5 stops of dynamic range. We already have a sports and wildlife camera (1DX) and a general purpose hobby camera (5D III)... There's no mid-range studio/landscape camera and it sounds like you don't need one, but others do (or at least want one!).

I prefer shooting evenly lit shots... paper and ink can have 4-5 stops of contrast at most (backlit art plenty more) and so I don't want that much more dynamic range in my scene unless I'm doing a lot of dodging and burning with black and white or something.

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2013, 02:42:43 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2013, 02:50:08 PM »
So, high MP is good but not really necessary while greater dynamic range is paramount. The fact that those features might come in one package is just fine though.
Fred
That's a big generalization.

Indeed. Not everyone DRools over DR.
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nicku

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2013, 03:15:08 PM »
Out of curiosity, those looking for high MP cameras... why do you need anything above 18MP?
What kind of pictures are you going to be printing or publishing that requires like 30MP and above?

In what I do... I let the client to decide what to do. My concern is to provide a high quality, HIGH MEGAPIXELS pictures.

kbmelb

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2013, 03:20:47 PM »
So, high MP is good but not really necessary while greater dynamic range is paramount. The fact that those features might come in one package is just fine though.
Fred
That's a big generalization.

Indeed. Not everyone DRools over DR.

I actually prefer the images of my old 1DsII and now 1DsIII to my 5DIII. Straight out of the camera. Why? They have less DR or more contrast. I can make the 5DIII look like them in post by increasing the contrast, blacks and definition (clarity for LR users).

As far as high MP camera, I shoot for agencies and I actually catch flack from them for only shooting 22MP and I have probably lost jobs because I don't shoot medium format. I much prefer to shoot 35mm body. So if I can have a 30+MP camera I'll be quite happy. The agencies will probably still have something to complain about because they are MF snobs.

Freddie

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2013, 04:28:47 PM »
So, high MP is good but not really necessary while greater dynamic range is paramount. The fact that those features might come in one package is just fine though.
Fred
That's a big generalization.

Indeed. Not everyone DRools over DR.

Yes, drooling should always be avoided or is that too big a generalization?

pdirestajr

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2013, 04:35:35 PM »
Product photography. I shoot a lot of small items and it's hard to get really large product photos- you move in too close and the DOF is too shallow, too far away and you have to crop down and end up with a much smaller image.

I'll take more mega pixos
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Policar

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2013, 04:45:51 PM »
Product photography. I shoot a lot of small items and it's hard to get really large product photos- you move in too close and the DOF is too shallow, too far away and you have to crop down and end up with a much smaller image.

I'll take more mega pixos

Have you tried focus stitching or are you still using T/S lenses? T/S will only get you so far.

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2013, 04:45:51 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2013, 04:53:21 PM »
Yes, drooling should always be avoided or is that too big a generalization?

Depends - my camera is weather sealed, so if I'm using it with a weather sealed lens, a little DRool isn't a problem.  :P
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Skulker

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2013, 06:20:09 PM »
I can't see I will need loads of mega whatsits.

I think some people will want it because it's a bigger number, they think more is better. I was talking to a professional the other day who was ranting on about her d800 because of the mega things. She could not come up with a reason why. I have nothing against the d800 it produces fabulous images. I found out later that the other person in the conversation thought the same as me, but like me didn't bother to try to explain as she was so set on more must be better.

I've yet to see a comparison that convinced me that any crop is a better substitute for getting closer or a longer lens.

If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

Apop

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2013, 06:56:58 PM »
'Only' 9-10 years ago the 1d had 4.2 mp and the 1dmkII 8mp.
For that time it was great, but now we have 5+megapixel screens, you are looking at almost 100% crops or 100%+ crops.

The reason i liked the 36mp of the d800, is that you got some future in your files, It's really hard to predict where the pixel race for screens will end, at the moment i can lean as close as my eye can focus to the screen and things still appear sharp, so i guess 8-10mp for a 15 inch laptop screen is about as far as is useful.
Is it useful to press your nose to the laptop monitor when the normal viewing distance is 50'ish cm?, I personally like it because I can see detail (hairs and such) which i cannot see from 50 cm, sure I can just zoom in on the image, But i don't know, I like it

It as about 220dpi now, if you translate that to a 42 inch tv screen , that would be 37'ish MP (estimate).
440 dpi would be 75+.

Is it necessary to be able to press your nose to the tv screen and still see a sharp picture when the normal viewing distance is 2-5 meters? ,probably not, but I would personally like it , seeing all that detail up close!

A bit of overkill of pixels on the camera (about 8-10 times screen resolution) never hurts imo, slightly out of focus images will still appear tack sharp!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 06:59:42 PM by Apop »

Normalnorm

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2013, 09:53:13 PM »

As far as high MP camera, I shoot for agencies and I actually catch flack from them for only shooting 22MP and I have probably lost jobs because I don't shoot medium format. I much prefer to shoot 35mm body. So if I can have a 30+MP camera I'll be quite happy. The agencies will probably still have something to complain about because they are MF snobs.
I have had those same idiotic request from some clients even though I know that the difference will be invisible. I scale up the images (5dmk3) strip the metadata and deliver thumping huge 16 bit tiffs and they are delighted. I also notice that a client recently supplied me with iStock images that were shot with a 7D and the kit lens! They got the job done (24x36 poster) but they were not as crisp as I expected of a stock agency and really got me thinking about the MP debate.
If your client wants to see you using high MP gear and is willing to pay a premium, just rent it, bill them and call it a day.

Don Haines

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2013, 09:55:36 PM »
My first digital camera was 320x 200 pixels in 16 colors..... It was AMAZING!

I remember people stating that there was no need for cameras of more than 8 megapixels.....

Let me recount some other visionary statements....

From several of us at work, 1980, concerning Telidon ( a project at work )... "This will eventually be in every library in Canada". Teledon became the Internet and HTML grew out of it's control language...

From Bill Gates, "no computer will ever need more than 64K of memory"

From Texas Instruments, when they unveiled a 16K x 1 bit memory chip, and said "throw away your design tools, this is as dense as a memory chip can be made"

And my favorite of all, Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone, who had a dream that one day there would be a phone in every city in North America


And 20 or 30 megapixels is enough? Right....  Or you can't make a good digital viewfinder.... Right..... 
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Freddie

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2013, 11:15:41 PM »
My first digital camera was 320x 200 pixels in 16 colors..... It was AMAZING!

I remember people stating that there was no need for cameras of more than 8 megapixels.....

Don: The first digital I worked with was this one <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_RD-175>
It made a decent 3x5" low-resolution digital image for catalog usage in 1996-98 and cost around US$6000 at the time. After that, I gave up on digital cameras until the Canon D60 came along in the spring of 2002 and showed me the future of photography for about a third of the price of that Minolta.
Since 2002, I've owned that D60, three versions of the 1D series Canon bodies, and two of the three 5D series. Despite the never-ending avaricious need for yet more pixels sometimes displayed on this forum, quite a few of the best images ever taken were shot with sub-8 MP digital camera bodies. The photographer's best tools are not and will never be camera equipment and that will remain true despite a desperate and irrational hunger for high MP dslr cameras.
And, yes, I do feel that dynamic range is far more important than resolution at this point in time.
I would love it if a decent 35-40 MP camera body were to be produced to fit my Canon lenses but, until that time, I'll happily work with the equipment available. Also, if Canon were able to simply duplicate the wonderful shadow detail shown by the Sony sensors without increasing resolution, I'd be happy to have that as well.
Fred

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2013, 11:15:41 PM »

Dylan777

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2013, 01:27:25 AM »
As long as there is a 5DMark whatever camera with no more that the current number of Megapixels I am fine!

I do not need more Mpixels, I prefer lower noise and higher DR. I respect however other people's wishes/needs.

I hope when they make a high Mpixel camera that it will be a totally new model and not a 5D one...

+1
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Apop

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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2013, 04:50:54 AM »
As long as there is a 5DMark whatever camera with no more that the current number of Megapixels I am fine!

I do not need more Mpixels, I prefer lower noise and higher DR. I respect however other people's wishes/needs.

I hope when they make a high Mpixel camera that it will be a totally new model and not a 5D one...

+1

Me neither, Until there is a 27 inch screen(Or imac) with 16mp, I see this happening within 3 years ( which isn't unrealistic), with my poor focus skills this would mean the need for a 64mp+ camera :-)




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Re: Why a high MP camera?
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2013, 04:50:54 AM »