November 23, 2014, 06:31:27 AM

Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]  (Read 45982 times)

RGomezPhotos

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2013, 03:42:19 PM »
I also believe that in addition to the big MP camera coming out in 2014, the other Pro camera will be an updated 1DX. You simply can't have the flagship on two year-old tech. Even when that tech is so freakin' awesome.  But it won't be released until later in 2014. The current 1DX just isn't old enough. However, I'm already seeing decent price drops on it so release date could be off. Price reductions are going to happen due to lower demand. So I'll still say later in 2014.

We fashion/hi-rez folks haven't seen a true Pro camera upgrade since the 1DS Mark III. And it's going on 6 years. The 5D MKII and MKIII have been really good for fashion. But still not a TRUE pro camera (big MP, dual - CF slots, user-replaceable focus screen, superior tonal-range and resolution, pro-size body). The 1DX is AMAZING. But it really is a sports camera.  Hell, if Canon were to put the new sensor with double the MP in the 1DX and tweak it a nudge for better tonal range...  That MIGHT suffice.  But it would obviously be the bastard-brother of the line. So I don't think Canon will go that route. It has to squash the D800 to justify the obvious price increase. And dominate for the next three to four years in this segment.

I don't think a 5D MKIV will come out in 2014. Definitely 2015 and probably early in that year. The demographic which uses that camera just doesn't need an upgrade in 2013. They got the AF they wanted, an SD slot for backup or WiFI, better weather sealing, more FPS. Yes, it can be better. But they can wait for the improvements. The improved AF in Live View in the new sensor would be their big feature. If they want better video, they can buy a 70D. :-)

I mentioned a while back that 2014 will be a banner year for Canon. It's certainly looking that way.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 03:44:02 PM by RGomezPhotos »
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2013, 03:42:19 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2013, 03:54:45 PM »
I got a question please guys.

Most photographers I know don't put much stock into the number of megapixels, often citing printing size as the sole benefit.

Is this true? Is there really nothing else to megapixels other than printing size?

The ability to crop is (or can be) a biggie.  When I am shooting fast moving sports I often give myself a little extra margin in camera knowing that I can crop it later.

Indeed! And with wildlife, small birds, particularly, cropping gets the shot if you don't have a long enough lens.

This is often said, but rarely backup with proof, mainly because it isn't actually true.

Here is a same generation crop sensor at 100% and a cropped ff sensor upscaled to the same pixel number. Whilst there is a fraction more detail in the 7D image this was a bench test under ideal conditions; using AF, hand holding, higher iso etc, would all level the field. The 7D crop has over twice the pixels the 1Ds MkIII crop has!

Is there a good reason to own a crop camera? Sure, it might have better AF, it is easier to frame as the subject is magnified more in the viewfinder, the image you see is closer to the image you will get etc etc, but there is a mere fraction of difference in actual image resolution and even that small difference isn't realisable in real world shooting.

This argument is flawed on two fronts. First, the same things you claim detract from any benefit the 7D has also apply to the 1D IV. Camera shake, for example can diminish IQ well below the potential for either camera.

Second, and more important...final image resolution is the result a blend of each factor that detracts from initial resolution. Since final image resolution is a convolution of camera shake, AF missfocus, lens aberrations and diffraction AND sensor resolution...the 7D would still come out on top even WITH all of those things affecting IQ. Assuming the same amount of camera shake, AF missfocus, and lens resolution...the only difference between the two then is sensor resolution...and the 7D wins.
HEY!

This is an emotional issue! How dare you bring common sense and facts into it!
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2013, 04:12:32 PM »
I'm curious about the 2 "pro" bodies - one of will be the high megapixel camera but the other will be?.....
And we travel to the distant past, six years ago.... A DSLR had 8 to 10 megapixels.... And then high megapixel cameras came out...15, 18, even 20Mpixels.... And for several years all DSLRs were high-megapixel cameras and we began to think of 18-20 or 22 as normal. What if from 2014 on that ALL new Canon DSLR's will be high megapixel cameras..... With high megapixel now meaning 35-45, and that will become the new normal... The 70D shows Canon can put 40 onto a sensor now...

My first digital camera was 320x200
The next one jumped to 640x400...... A whopping 4 times increase to .25 megapixels!
Next came 1600x1200.... An 8 times increase to 1.9 megapixels
Then I got an 8 megapixel camera, another 4 times increase....
Then I got a 18 megapixel camera, another 2 times increase....

It is about time 40 megapixels became the new normal for DSLR's..... Progress marches on....

« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 04:17:30 PM by Don Haines »
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pedro

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2013, 04:47:47 PM »
it's only a rumor. but still, probably 3D and dare i say 5D4? i would bet my money on one thing and that is that 70D is the last Canon's DSLR which uses Digic5 processor. 7DII and others definitely on Digic6, which is said to further help with noise control up to 6400 ISO.

Not sure about a 5DIV. The last product cycle up to the 5D3 was 3.6 years. What could be a good reason to release an upgrade after two years? Well, if Canon present something real game changing, why not. Or could they get back to an 1DIVish body despite of the 1Dx? Intresting times ahead.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2013, 04:49:00 PM »


It is about time 40 megapixels became the new normal for DSLR's..... Progress marches on....

I don't know any pros who want a 40MP camera as their primary body. It may be nice for specific jobs but it will simply cost me money in harddrive space, and backup costs, for my Wedding and Portrait business model. The largest prints I normally sell are 24x36. My 5D3 eats up enough space as it is. A friend of mine shoots sports professionally with a 1D MkIIn with 8.2MP and he has no issues.

If I need to make large prints I enlarge the image in Photoshop, and this just got even better with Photoshop CC. For most businesses we don't need, or even want, a large MP camera.

I'd like to have it for play time, but I'm a long way away from ever paying the price of a pro body to get large MP to play with.

Anyway, I'd LIKE to have 40MP for cropping freedom... I just wouldn't want to have to pay for the harddrive space.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2013, 04:52:33 PM »

Not sure about a 5DIV. The last product cycle up to the 5D3 was 3.6 years. What could be a good reason to release an upgrade after two years?

Yeah, I can't see them replacing the 5D3 so soon. It is hugely popular, and extremely competent and will remain so. Replacing it too early will simply devalue the line.  I also don't see them replacing the 1Dx next year.

We'll see a 3D high mp camera and a cinema camera.. at least that's my expectation.

privatebydesign

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2013, 06:13:27 PM »
I got a question please guys.

Most photographers I know don't put much stock into the number of megapixels, often citing printing size as the sole benefit.

Is this true? Is there really nothing else to megapixels other than printing size?

The ability to crop is (or can be) a biggie.  When I am shooting fast moving sports I often give myself a little extra margin in camera knowing that I can crop it later.

Indeed! And with wildlife, small birds, particularly, cropping gets the shot if you don't have a long enough lens.

This is often said, but rarely backup with proof, mainly because it isn't actually true.

Here is a same generation crop sensor at 100% and a cropped ff sensor upscaled to the same pixel number. Whilst there is a fraction more detail in the 7D image this was a bench test under ideal conditions; using AF, hand holding, higher iso etc, would all level the field. The 7D crop has over twice the pixels the 1Ds MkIII crop has!

Is there a good reason to own a crop camera? Sure, it might have better AF, it is easier to frame as the subject is magnified more in the viewfinder, the image you see is closer to the image you will get etc etc, but there is a mere fraction of difference in actual image resolution and even that small difference isn't realisable in real world shooting.

This argument is flawed on two fronts. First, the same things you claim detract from any benefit the 7D has also apply to the 1D IV. Camera shake, for example can diminish IQ well below the potential for either camera.

Second, and more important...final image resolution is the result a blend of each factor that detracts from initial resolution. Since final image resolution is a convolution of camera shake, AF missfocus, lens aberrations and diffraction AND sensor resolution...the 7D would still come out on top even WITH all of those things affecting IQ. Assuming the same amount of camera shake, AF missfocus, and lens resolution...the only difference between the two then is sensor resolution...and the 7D wins.

First, I am not presenting an argument, I am presenting empirical results of a test.

Second, I used a FF 1Ds MkIII not an APS-H 1D MkIV.

Third, I agree the 7D "wins", though I don't agree with the oversimplified knee jerk rhetoric. I even pointed out in my initial post that the 7D does have more resolution, just nowhere near as much as anybody would guess or expect, most people are pretty emphatic that the far denser sensor of the 7D would trounce the less than half the pixel numbers of the FF, but it just is not so. The 18MP of the 7D equate well to the 36MP of the D800, we all know, as a system, the 5D MkIII at 24MP and the 24-70 f2.8 MkII resolves more, as bench tested, than the D800 and Nikon 24-70 f2.8, 18MP to 15MP.

I know and understand image resolution is a result of system resolution, I just pointed out, with images, the system resolution of an 18MP crop camera is not very much different from a crop from a 21MP FF camera. Again, that is not an argument, it is an empirical observation.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2013, 06:13:27 PM »

Lee Jay

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2013, 06:22:00 PM »
And another year goes by without me giving Canon any of my money.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2013, 06:29:28 PM »
I was thinking about the new Dual Pixel AF that Canon's introducing in the 70D with respect to the 7D2.  If they can really do AF directly on the sensor, is there anything stopping them from going past 10fps?  On past cameras, the limiting factor on fps was the flapping of the mirror to reflect sufficient light to the AF sensor.  With on-CCD AF, could they only move the mirror as necessary for the photographer to track?  I could see a system where the camera takes 2-3 shots per mirror flip, allowing for fps in the 20+ range.  Am I missing something?

Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2013, 06:33:45 PM »


It is about time 40 megapixels became the new normal for DSLR's..... Progress marches on....

I don't know any pros who want a 40MP camera as their primary body. It may be nice for specific jobs but it will simply cost me money in harddrive space, and backup costs, for my Wedding and Portrait business model. The largest prints I normally sell are 24x36. My 5D3 eats up enough space as it is. A friend of mine shoots sports professionally with a 1D MkIIn with 8.2MP and he has no issues.

If I need to make large prints I enlarge the image in Photoshop, and this just got even better with Photoshop CC. For most businesses we don't need, or even want, a large MP camera.

I'd like to have it for play time, but I'm a long way away from ever paying the price of a pro body to get large MP to play with.

Anyway, I'd LIKE to have 40MP for cropping freedom... I just wouldn't want to have to pay for the harddrive space.

Hard drives..... Time marches on there too....

First hard drive I bought for work was $10,000 for a 10 megabyte drive.... Last week I bought 24 4terrabyte drives at $250 each.... That's 100 terabytes for $6000..... Quite a drop in price per byte.... This is 7 orders of magnitude... That's like buying a mansion in 1980 for $1,000,000.00 and in 2013 buying a better mansion for $0.06
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 06:43:07 PM by Don Haines »
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distant.star

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2013, 06:35:57 PM »
and let the "i expect 10fps and 61 point AF blahblah" spam begin.

I thought an offer to sell was a necessary component of spam. Am I misunderstanding something?
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2013, 06:37:08 PM »
I know and understand image resolution is a result of system resolution, I just pointed out, with images, the system resolution of an 18MP crop camera is not very much different from a crop from a 21MP FF camera. Again, that is not an argument, it is an empirical observation.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying the original question--"the benefit of megapixels", but all things being equal, more = more.  The rest of this is arguing that all things aren't equal, which is obviously true most of the time.  A 16MP 1Dx just might   ;) take a better picture than Nokia's 41 Mp cell phone camera cropped to 16.  All megapickles are not created equal, but that does not negate the fact that more of "the same" MPs means more freedom for cropping.  If you don't believe me, shoot an image in RAW, then the same image in sRaw, crop a chunk out and see how they look.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2013, 06:41:22 PM »
I'm curious about the 2 "pro" bodies - one of will be the high megapixel camera but the other will be?.....

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2013, 06:41:22 PM »

Lee Jay

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2013, 06:45:05 PM »


The ability to crop is (or can be) a biggie.  When I am shooting fast moving sports I often give myself a little extra margin in camera knowing that I can crop it later.

Indeed! And with wildlife, small birds, particularly, cropping gets the shot if you don't have a long enough lens.

This is often said, but rarely backup with proof, mainly because it isn't actually true.

Here is a same generation crop sensor at 100% and a cropped ff sensor upscaled to the same pixel number. Whilst there is a fraction more detail in the 7D image this was a bench test under ideal conditions; using AF, hand holding, higher iso etc, would all level the field. The 7D crop has over twice the pixels the 1Ds MkIII crop has!

Is there a good reason to own a crop camera? Sure, it might have better AF, it is easier to frame as the subject is magnified more in the viewfinder, the image you see is closer to the image you will get etc etc, but there is a mere fraction of difference in actual image resolution and even that small difference isn't realisable in real world shooting.

Of course it's realizable.  Were you kidding or just assuming everyone shoots with horribly soft lenses?

distant.star

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2013, 06:49:27 PM »
.
Great!

This will be my second body. I'm weary of the flabby AF in my old T2i.

So next year it's 5D3 and 7D2. Sounds like a perfect pair for any situation.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2013, 06:49:27 PM »