October 01, 2014, 01:00:03 PM

Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]  (Read 43310 times)

whothafunk

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #180 on: July 21, 2013, 08:52:12 AM »
I really can't see Canon gimping the 7D II with the same sensor as the 70D. It just wouldn't sell. I think most people expect there to be some differentiation between the XXD and 7D line now, and reusing the sensor would diminish that differentiation. It would deliver on their previous comments to make the 7D II something special, too...and maybe give everyone a glimpse of what we might see in Canon's BigMP offering.
I call BS. 7DII will be purchased mostly by people who know what 7DII is and what it offers. They know it will (most probably) offer superior FPS, AF, ergonomics, (dual) CF card, 100% VF and 1x magnification, advanced fuctions, etc etc etc, not to mention I am pretty sure it will have Digic6 processor, which is said to even further improve noise performance up to 6400 ISO point, and probably image quality. 70D with 20.2MP and Digic5+ vs 7DII 20.2MP and (Dual?) Digic6(+) processor. It has got to have better ISO and IQ, doesnt matter if its the same MP count.

And since when did people transfer from "MP doesnt count" to "MP is #1 priority"?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 08:55:41 AM by whothafunk »
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #180 on: July 21, 2013, 08:52:12 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #181 on: July 21, 2013, 09:24:31 AM »
I call BS...  I am pretty sure it will have Digic6 processor, which is said to even further improve noise performance up to 6400 ISO point, and probably image quality. 70D with 20.2MP and Digic5+ vs 7DII 20.2MP and (Dual?) Digic6(+) processor. It has got to have better ISO and IQ, doesnt matter if its the same MP count.

Sure...if you shoot JPG.  But many (most?) 7D shooters know better, because RAW affords much more flexibility in post.  For RAW shooters, 'better ISO and IQ' with a newer Digic processor is no more than marketing BS (which is the worst-smelling kind!).
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rs

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #182 on: July 21, 2013, 10:39:37 AM »
For RAW shooters, 'better ISO and IQ' with a newer Digic processor is no more than marketing BS (which is the worst-smelling kind!).
The world is a much richer place thanks to marketing. For instance, where would we be without 'unlimited' data plans with limits on them?  ::)
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #183 on: July 21, 2013, 10:52:14 AM »
For RAW shooters, 'better ISO and IQ' with a newer Digic processor is no more than marketing BS (which is the worst-smelling kind!).
The world is a much richer place thanks to marketing. For instance, where would we be without 'unlimited' data plans with limits on them?  ::)

Yup... and Neuro, you should dump your Canon gear for an iPhone, "The number one camera in the world", or get an entry level Nikon and "Take your photography to exciting new levels"....  :)
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #184 on: July 21, 2013, 11:13:36 AM »
I really can't see Canon gimping the 7D II with the same sensor as the 70D. It just wouldn't sell. I think most people expect there to be some differentiation between the XXD and 7D line now, and reusing the sensor would diminish that differentiation. It would deliver on their previous comments to make the 7D II something special, too...and maybe give everyone a glimpse of what we might see in Canon's BigMP offering.
I call BS. 7DII will be purchased mostly by people who know what 7DII is and what it offers. They know it will (most probably) offer superior FPS, AF, ergonomics, (dual) CF card, 100% VF and 1x magnification, advanced fuctions, etc etc etc, not to mention I am pretty sure it will have Digic6 processor, which is said to even further improve noise performance up to 6400 ISO point, and probably image quality. 70D with 20.2MP and Digic5+ vs 7DII 20.2MP and (Dual?) Digic6(+) processor. It has got to have better ISO and IQ, doesnt matter if its the same MP count.

And since when did people transfer from "MP doesnt count" to "MP is #1 priority"?

My comment wasn't as much about MP count as it was about the "revolutionary" nature of whatever sensor the 7D II gets. Canon clearly stated a couple of times that they were going to do something great with the 7D II sensor. My point, really, was that if the 7D II gets THE SAME SENSOR as the 70D, then Canon will just be doing the same old thing...AGAIN. Reusing the SAME OLD SENSOR....AGAIN. I think the extensive reuse of their 18mp sensor, even in tweaked forms that have FP-PDAF, has soured a lot of people's expectations. I think it would be negative for PR for a lot of people if Canon did not introduce some kind of new sensor in the 7D II.

Given that the only other rumored sensor is a 24mp sensor...well, I mentioned a 24mp sensor in my last answer. I do think it needs to be different, not only in design, but megapixel count. It could be a 19mp sensor, or a 21mp sensor...although given that the 7D line has always been strongly correlated with reach, I think higher IS better in this context (especially given the 24mp APS-C sensors of the competition). I do believe that with a BSI design, a 24mp sensor could be created that performs as well as the 18mp one without any other technological improvements at all. If you throw in the CFA changes of the 5D III and 1D X, and any other improvements that might have hinted about over the last year (i.e. active cooling, a shift to 180nm, on-die image processing (NR, ADC), etc.), and the 7D II sensor even with more megapixels could perform noticeably better than the original 7D.

Fundamentally, though, my point is that the sensor of the 7D II really needs to shine...it needs to be DIFFERENT than the 70D's sensor, and it should really include some innovative technology (even if Canon sticks with a 500nm process.) Personally, I'm getting a bit tired of extensive sensor reuse over a period of years, especially in a high end product like the 7D line. If I am going to spend $2000 or more on such a product, it damn well better be worthy of it.

(Oh, and BTW...I would point out that the dual DIGIC readout of the current 7D is actually the root cause of its banding problems. It gives a higher readout rate, but it also introduces fairly strong vertical banding up into the midtones (above and beyond the crosshatch banding that already exists in the deep shadows). All single-DIGIC cameras that use the same 18mp APS-C sensor actually have BETTER noise characteristics than the 7D. I don't believe the use of DIGIC 6 will alleviate that, assuming Canon continues to take their current approach to off-die ADC.)
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #185 on: July 21, 2013, 11:14:20 AM »
For RAW shooters, 'better ISO and IQ' with a newer Digic processor is no more than marketing BS (which is the worst-smelling kind!).
The world is a much richer place thanks to marketing. For instance, where would we be without 'unlimited' data plans with limits on them?  ::)

+1 LOL Seriously...
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garyknrd

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #186 on: July 21, 2013, 08:42:51 PM »
For RAW shooters, 'better ISO and IQ' with a newer Digic processor is no more than marketing BS (which is the worst-smelling kind!).
The world is a much richer place thanks to marketing. For instance, where would we be without 'unlimited' data plans with limits on them?  ::)

+1 LOL Seriously...

+2 here, Amazing the BS of marketing.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #186 on: July 21, 2013, 08:42:51 PM »

expatinasia

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #187 on: July 21, 2013, 09:28:06 PM »
If the 7D II comes out with something like 24mp APS-C that improves ISO 100 noise, maybe uses a BSI design *with* split pixels like the 20.2mp sensor, and still offers everything else (10fps, 61pt AF, same durable body design and weather sealing of the 5D III), etc. Then I think it will clock in over $2000, maybe even $2500.

+1, my money (not that I have it) is also on a new sensor, a late release date and a $2500 price remembering of the interview I mentioned above.

Honestly? If Canon launched a camera as described by jrista I could easily see that reaching the US$3,000 and even the US$3,500 mark. In fact why would it be cheaper (especially on release) than the 5D Mark III?
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #188 on: July 21, 2013, 10:28:03 PM »
If the 7D II comes out with something like 24mp APS-C that improves ISO 100 noise, maybe uses a BSI design *with* split pixels like the 20.2mp sensor, and still offers everything else (10fps, 61pt AF, same durable body design and weather sealing of the 5D III), etc. Then I think it will clock in over $2000, maybe even $2500.

+1, my money (not that I have it) is also on a new sensor, a late release date and a $2500 price remembering of the interview I mentioned above.

Honestly? If Canon launched a camera as described by jrista I could easily see that reaching the US$3,000 and even the US$3,500 mark. In fact why would it be cheaper (especially on release) than the 5D Mark III?
I couldn't see it coming in under $2000....$2500 seems likely to me, AFTER the initial rush of early adopters is over.
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #189 on: July 22, 2013, 11:29:52 AM »
If the 7D II comes out with something like 24mp APS-C that improves ISO 100 noise, maybe uses a BSI design *with* split pixels like the 20.2mp sensor, and still offers everything else (10fps, 61pt AF, same durable body design and weather sealing of the 5D III), etc. Then I think it will clock in over $2000, maybe even $2500.

+1, my money (not that I have it) is also on a new sensor, a late release date and a $2500 price remembering of the interview I mentioned above.

Honestly? If Canon launched a camera as described by jrista I could easily see that reaching the US$3,000 and even the US$3,500 mark. In fact why would it be cheaper (especially on release) than the 5D Mark III?

Well, the 1D X and 5D III pioneered some new technology. Such as the 61pt AF system. The 7D II would be able to piggyback on the profits from sales of those cameras if it reused the 61pt AF system. Same goes for the metering, etc. Canon wouldn't need to do as much R&D for the 7D II...about the only thing that really needs improvement is the sensor...and it sounds like that's being done. So I don't really foresee the 7D II hitting the $3000 mark I think it would be surprising if it came out higher than $2500...I just don't see people buying it at a price point higher than that, given the position it holds (the lowest end "pro" camera in Canon's lineup, plus APS-C to boot...a lot of people have this thing about FF being professional now.)

There is also the competitive aspect to think about. A $3000 7D II would be in a tough competitive spot with Nikon at the very least, as Nikon has been packing in as many features as possible at the cheapest price point possible lately.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #190 on: July 22, 2013, 12:52:02 PM »
I'd be really surprised if it got the 61pt AF system just because they want some seperation between the 7D and 5D MIII.  If they dumped all the latest tech in it and it just came down to one being one being full frame and one not then most would probably go for the cheaper 7D with more fps stealing sales from the 5D MIII, I just don't see them doing that.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #191 on: July 22, 2013, 02:45:30 PM »
I'd be really surprised if it got the 61pt AF system just because they want some seperation between the 7D and 5D MIII.  If they dumped all the latest tech in it and it just came down to one being one being full frame and one not then most would probably go for the cheaper 7D with more fps stealing sales from the 5D MIII, I just don't see them doing that.

The 7D got newer technology than the 5DII. Giving the 7DII equal or better technology than than the 5DIII, but in an APS-C format is consistent with past practice.

Canon doesn't care about "stealing sales" from one model to the next. They care about stealing sales from Nikon.
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #192 on: July 22, 2013, 02:53:14 PM »
I'd be really surprised if it got the 61pt AF system just because they want some seperation between the 7D and 5D MIII.  If they dumped all the latest tech in it and it just came down to one being one being full frame and one not then most would probably go for the cheaper 7D with more fps stealing sales from the 5D MIII, I just don't see them doing that.

The 7D got newer technology than the 5DII. Giving the 7DII equal or better technology than than the 5DIII, but in an APS-C format is consistent with past practice.

Canon doesn't care about "stealing sales" from one model to the next. They care about stealing sales from Nikon.

Totally agreed.

Competition with other brands is more important than self competition. I don't really even buy the self competition argument either...the 5D III is FF, and that is the most important factor for the majority of people who buy that camera. I know a good number of portrait and wedding photogs (well, and event photogs as well) who would NEVER buy an APS-C camera, for any price with any feature set, because the full frame FoV and DOF are far more important to them. People who buy the 7D line want it for what it is...and gimping its AF relative to the rest of Canon's pro line would just be another detractor against outside competition.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #192 on: July 22, 2013, 02:53:14 PM »

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #193 on: July 22, 2013, 03:32:53 PM »
I'd be really surprised if it got the 61pt AF system just because they want some seperation between the 7D and 5D MIII.  If they dumped all the latest tech in it and it just came down to one being one being full frame and one not then most would probably go for the cheaper 7D with more fps stealing sales from the 5D MIII, I just don't see them doing that.

The 7D got newer technology than the 5DII. Giving the 7DII equal or better technology than than the 5DIII, but in an APS-C format is consistent with past practice.

Canon doesn't care about "stealing sales" from one model to the next. They care about stealing sales from Nikon.

Totally agreed.

Competition with other brands is more important than self competition. I don't really even buy the self competition argument either...the 5D III is FF, and that is the most important factor for the majority of people who buy that camera. I know a good number of portrait and wedding photogs (well, and event photogs as well) who would NEVER buy an APS-C camera, for any price with any feature set, because the full frame FoV and DOF are far more important to them. People who buy the 7D line want it for what it is...and gimping its AF relative to the rest of Canon's pro line would just be another detractor against outside competition.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #194 on: July 22, 2013, 03:35:12 PM »
I'd be really surprised if it got the 61pt AF system just because they want some seperation between the 7D and 5D MIII.  If they dumped all the latest tech in it and it just came down to one being one being full frame and one not then most would probably go for the cheaper 7D with more fps stealing sales from the 5D MIII, I just don't see them doing that.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #194 on: July 22, 2013, 03:35:12 PM »