September 16, 2014, 04:05:40 PM

Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]  (Read 42368 times)

Krob78

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1293
  • When in Doubt, Press the Shutter...
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #195 on: July 22, 2013, 03:39:51 PM »
If the 7D II comes out with something like 24mp APS-C that improves ISO 100 noise, maybe uses a BSI design *with* split pixels like the 20.2mp sensor, and still offers everything else (10fps, 61pt AF, same durable body design and weather sealing of the 5D III), etc. Then I think it will clock in over $2000, maybe even $2500.

+1, my money (not that I have it) is also on a new sensor, a late release date and a $2500 price remembering of the interview I mentioned above.

Honestly? If Canon launched a camera as described by jrista I could easily see that reaching the US$3,000 and even the US$3,500 mark. In fact why would it be cheaper (especially on release) than the 5D Mark III?

Well, the 1D X and 5D III pioneered some new technology. Such as the 61pt AF system. The 7D II would be able to piggyback on the profits from sales of those cameras if it reused the 61pt AF system. Same goes for the metering, etc. Canon wouldn't need to do as much R&D for the 7D II...about the only thing that really needs improvement is the sensor...and it sounds like that's being done. So I don't really foresee the 7D II hitting the $3000 mark I think it would be surprising if it came out higher than $2500...I just don't see people buying it at a price point higher than that, given the position it holds (the lowest end "pro" camera in Canon's lineup, plus APS-C to boot...a lot of people have this thing about FF being professional now.)

There is also the competitive aspect to think about. A $3000 7D II would be in a tough competitive spot with Nikon at the very least, as Nikon has been packing in as many features as possible at the cheapest price point possible lately.
Quote
The 7D got newer technology than the 5DII. Giving the 7DII equal or better technology than than the 5DIII, but in an APS-C format is consistent with past practice.
The 7d came in substantially less than a new 5d2 came in at, with the "newer" technology.  Why can't a 7D2, having some of the same technology and some "newer" technology come in substantially less than the 5d3?
Ken

5D Mark III, 100-400mm L, EF 70-200mm f/2.8 II, EF 24-105mm L, EF 17-40mm L, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM,  Canon 580EX II, Canon 430EX II, Promaster TC 1.7x

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #195 on: July 22, 2013, 03:39:51 PM »

unfocused

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2097
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #196 on: July 22, 2013, 04:07:27 PM »
The 7d came in substantially less than a new 5d2 came in at, with the "newer" technology.  Why can't a 7D2, having some of the same technology and some "newer" technology come in substantially less than the 5d3?

Agreed.

Too often, people generalize about Canon pricing based on one example – the higher cost of the 5DIII in comparison to the D800. But, that was an anomaly. Canon and Nikon traditionally price their comparable models at nearly identical price points.

They do so because that's what the market demands. A $2,500 7DII would be hard-pressed to compete against a $1,800 D400.

Why didn't the 5DIII follow that pattern?

I have always argued that Canon set a $500 premium with the 5DIII because the 5DIII was much more targeted to specific buyers than the D800. The 5DIII with its high ISO performance is a must-have tool for photographers in a highly competitive field – weddings and events (which also happens to be about the only sizeable professional field left). Canon knew they could charge a premium because their target audience needs the competitive edge that the clean high ISOs gives them.

The D800 sacrificed high-ISO performance for high resolution. Unfortunately, there simply isn't a large professional base of photographers who gain any competitive edge from a high resolution sensor (emphasis on "large" professional base). It's a nice feature and gives some bragging rights to a company that has been perceived as being behind the curve on resolution for several years.  That's not to say that some photographers don't need high resolution, it's just that the target audience is much smaller and the competitive advantages to be gained from the high resolution are much less significant.

I don't understand why people always point to the 5DIII, which was an exception, when every other DSLR Canon makes fits nicely within the rule of consistent pricing with their competitors. Frankly, the relatively low pricing of the 70D should give some reassurance that the 7DII will likely come in comfortably under $2,000
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

Sporgon

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1872
  • 5% of gear used 95% of the time
    • View Profile
    • www.buildingpanoramics.com
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #197 on: July 22, 2013, 04:51:55 PM »

Why didn't the 5DIII follow that pattern ?

I have always argued that Canon set a $500 premium with the 5DIII because the 5DIII was much more targeted to specific buyers than the D800. The 5DIII with its high ISO performance is a must-have tool for photographers in a highly competitive field – weddings and events (which also happens to be about the only sizeable professional field left).

I disagree here. The 5D mk3 was $500 more as it is $500 more camera: a professional level product in every way. The original 5D and later mk2 were not. Many pros eschewed the 1Ds mk3 in favour of the much cheaper, lighter 5Dmk2. Canon responded to demand and produced a pro grade 5D.

The D800 on the other hand is aimed fair and square at the amateur market, and it is less $$$ because it is a cheaper, less substantial product. 36 mp, a marketing game that didn't come off. They had to bring out the D600 pretty sharpish.

RLPhoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3446
  • Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #198 on: July 22, 2013, 04:58:56 PM »
I have always argued that Canon set a $500 premium with the 5DIII because the 5DIII was much more targeted to specific buyers than the D800.

I thought canon tagged on an extra 1000$ because they could and users would buy anyway. I used my 5Dc until I saw a reasonable price before buying my first MK3.

unfocused

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2097
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #199 on: July 22, 2013, 05:12:18 PM »
I disagree here...

I disagree that you disagree. :)

Seriously, I think we are saying the same thing. 5DIII targeted to a professional market to fit a specific need. D800 targeted to...whom? I've never been sure.

The 5DIII may be $500 more camera, but that's because it has features that make it worth that to a specific market.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

Sporgon

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1872
  • 5% of gear used 95% of the time
    • View Profile
    • www.buildingpanoramics.com
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #200 on: July 22, 2013, 05:50:35 PM »
I disagree here...

I disagree that you disagree. :)

Seriously, I think we are saying the same thing. 5DIII targeted to a professional market to fit a specific need. D800 targeted to...whom? I've never been sure.

The 5DIII may be $500 more camera, but that's because it has features that make it worth that to a specific market.

Agreed  ;)

I think the 7Dii will follow the same path. Many sports 'pros' use the 7D as a much more affordable 1D -whatever. My guess is the next one will be basically an APS-c 1Dx.

Waterloo

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #201 on: July 22, 2013, 06:58:42 PM »
Wouldn't I just love to have a an APS-C version of my 1D X. Same size, same battery, same control layout, same number of pixels and same image quality. I've dreamed of this camera. Canon could build one if they had a mind to......

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #201 on: July 22, 2013, 06:58:42 PM »

x-vision

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 473
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #202 on: July 22, 2013, 07:55:07 PM »
Frankly, the relatively low pricing of the 70D should give some reassurance that the 7DII will likely come in comfortably under $2,000

Completely agree  8).

There's no reason to believe that the 7DII product positioning will change compared to that of the current 7D.
This means, of course, a sub-$2000 price tag ... and sub-$2000 specs.

So, no 61 AF-points in the 7DII.
Canon will not put their first-tier AF system in a sub-$2000 body.
Same for some of the other dream specs floating around.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 09:21:39 PM by x-vision »

jrista

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4471
  • POTATO
    • View Profile
    • Nature Photography
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #203 on: July 22, 2013, 09:43:58 PM »
The 7d came in substantially less than a new 5d2 came in at, with the "newer" technology.  Why can't a 7D2, having some of the same technology and some "newer" technology come in substantially less than the 5d3?

Agreed.

Too often, people generalize about Canon pricing based on one example – the higher cost of the 5DIII in comparison to the D800. But, that was an anomaly. Canon and Nikon traditionally price their comparable models at nearly identical price points.

They do so because that's what the market demands. A $2,500 7DII would be hard-pressed to compete against a $1,800 D400.

Why didn't the 5DIII follow that pattern?

I have always argued that Canon set a $500 premium with the 5DIII because the 5DIII was much more targeted to specific buyers than the D800. The 5DIII with its high ISO performance is a must-have tool for photographers in a highly competitive field – weddings and events (which also happens to be about the only sizeable professional field left). Canon knew they could charge a premium because their target audience needs the competitive edge that the clean high ISOs gives them.

The D800 sacrificed high-ISO performance for high resolution. Unfortunately, there simply isn't a large professional base of photographers who gain any competitive edge from a high resolution sensor (emphasis on "large" professional base). It's a nice feature and gives some bragging rights to a company that has been perceived as being behind the curve on resolution for several years.  That's not to say that some photographers don't need high resolution, it's just that the target audience is much smaller and the competitive advantages to be gained from the high resolution are much less significant.

I don't understand why people always point to the 5DIII, which was an exception, when every other DSLR Canon makes fits nicely within the rule of consistent pricing with their competitors. Frankly, the relatively low pricing of the 70D should give some reassurance that the 7DII will likely come in comfortably under $2,000

You are assuming Canon will leave the 7D II in the same target demographic bucket as the 7D. I'd point to the various statements Canon has made about how they want to do something "special" with the 7D II. That hints to me that it might end up more like the 5D III...an "anomaly" as you called it, than the same old deal...the "as cheap as possible specs with a high frame rate" deal.

I am not sure that is a safe assumption. The 7D II could very well come in like the 5D III (at least as it is in your view, as a specialized part...personally, I think the 5D III is an amazing general purpose FF camera, as it fits the bill for just about everything and anything with the sole exception being sunset photos where you get the sun, the brightly lit sky, and all the deep shadow foreground detail all in a single shot), and be effectively an APS-C 1D X, filling a niche for a specific subset of people...sports/wildlife/birds...rather than just being a cheapish APS-C "pro" camera.

Personally, I would rather spend $2000 or so on something that DID have 61pt AF, 10fps (and dual UDMA 7 CF), a 24.4mp APS-C, and a worthwhile IQ boost over ANY other APS-C sensor from Canon...something where NR works more on the level it does for the 5D III, rather than how it didn't so much for the 7D (Topaz DeNoise 5 definitely improves things...but it would be better if you could just clean up noise on the 7D II like you can on a 5D III or even better, 1D X photo).
My Photography
Current Gear: Canon 5D III | Canon 7D | Canon EF 600mm f/4 L IS II | EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS | EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L | EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro | 50mm f/1.4
New Gear List: SBIG STT-8300M | Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L II

x-vision

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 473
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #204 on: July 22, 2013, 10:14:12 PM »
You are assuming Canon will leave the 7D II in the same target demographic bucket as the 7D.

This is a safe assumption to make, IMO.

To put it another way: if the 7DII is the 1DIV successor, what will be the 7D successor?

This is a rhetorical question 8).
Like I said, I don't see the 7DII morphing into a different class of camera.

Quote
I'd point to the various statements Canon has made about how they want to do something "special" with the 7D II.

What Canon actually said was that the 7DII would "evolve into new territory".
There are different ways to interpret that but I wouldn't read too much into it.
Just consider that when the 5DII was announced, its video feature was considered 'revolutionary'.
So, now that Canon is talking 'evolution', I wouldn't hold my breath for a big departure from the current concept.

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4521
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #205 on: July 23, 2013, 06:34:05 AM »
Frankly, the relatively low pricing of the 70D should give some reassurance that the 7DII will likely come in comfortably under $2,000
Completely agree  8)

Maybe, maybe not - I don't think the 70d price is a sufficient indicator because here Canon don't have a choice, they have to counter the very competent d7100, even though the Canon's dual af tech is unique while Nikon very likely has the better af system. With a potential 7d2 Canon has much more freedom to act.

There's no reason to believe that the 7DII product positioning will change compared to that of the current 7D.

There is one reason: At  the time of the original 7d there was the aps-h 1d4 with more reach than a ff, now there isn't. If Canon also wants to target the former 1d4 customers they could go for more quality & more $$$.

To put it another way: if the 7DII is the 1DIV successor, what will be the 7D successor? This is a rhetorical question 8).

I'll answer it anyway :-p ... a successor of the 7d1 is the 70d with about the same af system and some gimmicks, just as they split up the 5d2 into a higher end successor (5d3) and a reduced cost version (6d).

whothafunk

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #206 on: July 23, 2013, 11:09:47 AM »
although I am quite satisfied with what Canon did with the 70D (the sensor and ISO remains to be seen), I still think it's too much crippled to be a true 7D successor.

70D doesn't have 100% VF, 1x magnification, 3x custom func, less FPS, AF spot and selection missing, CF card, mag.alloy and same weather sealing, joystick,..

swivel touchscreen, Wi-Fi and faster AF in live view arent real compensations for all that in my book.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 11:11:42 AM by whothafunk »
Canon 70D -- Canon 550D -- Canon 8-15L f4 Fisheye USM -- Canon 70-200L f2.8 IS USM II -- Canon 17-55 f2.8 IS USM

Hardproducer

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 15
  • Don't take me serious, I'm Dutch
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #207 on: July 24, 2013, 07:18:01 AM »
If the 70D is ready for shipment by September, I can't imagine a lot of 7D's will be sold thereafter.

I will wait till 7dmk2 is released before buying anything. So i can first compare before making my choice.
It's the image of the image.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #207 on: July 24, 2013, 07:18:01 AM »

thebowtie

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • You want me to rant? Go ahead, make my day!
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #208 on: July 24, 2013, 09:41:00 AM »
Seriously, I think we are saying the same thing. 5DIII targeted to a professional market to fit a specific need. D800
targeted to...whom? I've never been sure.
I think the D800 is targeted at trolls  ;)
A Camera. Some Lenses. Some accessories. Talent on back-order

Krob78

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1293
  • When in Doubt, Press the Shutter...
    • View Profile
Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #209 on: July 24, 2013, 10:59:05 AM »
I disagree here...

I disagree that you disagree. :)

Seriously, I think we are saying the same thing. 5DIII targeted to a professional market to fit a specific need. D800 targeted to...whom? I've never been sure.

The 5DIII may be $500 more camera, but that's because it has features that make it worth that to a specific market.

Agreed  ;)

I think the 7Dii will follow the same path. Many sports 'pros' use the 7D as a much more affordable 1D -whatever. My guess is the next one will be basically an APS-c 1Dx.
Quote
My guess is the next one will be basically an APS-c 1Dx.
How great would that be??  A brand new Canon 7Dx!  I think I'll preorder mine tonight! 8)
Ken

5D Mark III, 100-400mm L, EF 70-200mm f/2.8 II, EF 24-105mm L, EF 17-40mm L, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM,  Canon 580EX II, Canon 430EX II, Promaster TC 1.7x

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in 2014 [CR2]
« Reply #209 on: July 24, 2013, 10:59:05 AM »