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Author Topic: The Frenzy is Over.....  (Read 17294 times)


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The Frenzy is Over.....
« on: July 10, 2013, 10:33:34 AM »
Now that the $299 deal is over, I was wondering....... 

When in Khiva, recently, I saw a man with an M and thought to myself that that looked like a nice camera.  I returned home just as the $299 B&H deal was announced.  Those of you who took advantage of the offer had good reasons just as those of us who did not had good reasons to hold off.

So now that the dust is settling, I'd like to have a discussion about how this device (or its next generation) really fits into the scheme of things.  I know it is smaller than my DSLR.  I know that a crop sensor is a big advantage over the typical P&S.  I know that the ability to use many lenses is a potential advantage (or disadvantage if one wants to carry a device in a pocket that has zoom abilities).  I know that the new firmware improves the prior issues with AF but cannot replicate the focus abilities of our big DSLR's.  I am not interested in any of us justifying what we did or did not do in the big sale, but just am trying to get my head around where this device will fit into the big picture (wow.....pun not intended!).

For example, my wife carries an NEX 7 and there are times, usually at altitude in the wind while going uphill, that the smaller size of and weight of that camera starts to look pretty good to me.  But, I can do more and get more out of my 5Diii. 

Just thought we could get the discussion going.


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The Frenzy is Over.....
« on: July 10, 2013, 10:33:34 AM »


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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 10:53:41 AM »
I would think it caters more to people who try to upgrade from p+s. I used to have a g11. It was nice until the inconvenience of not being able to change lens got to me. For people who are used to taking pictures with cell phone or using p+s, the M system is already a huge step up. What would these people want next? They want to upgrade further.  All this means good business for canon. If canon loses this battle it would also mean loss of potential business of its higher end gear.
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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 11:29:03 AM »
Mirrorles have aquired large market share and Canon needs to be competitive

Smaller lighter cheaper than DSLR

Good backup when weight and space saving is important

Nice little toy to play around with and impress your non photographic friends

What happens when what you can get out of a smaller footprint equals what you can get out of a big heavy dslr like the pro 5D3?

Sometimes the extra depth of field from an apsc sensor is welcome (22 lens equal in field of view to a 35mm lens but still has depth of field of a '22mm' lens.

At 300 usd must be the deal of the year taking into account it has same or slightly better IQ than a 7D..

The importan thing to remember is that there is really not 'one camera fits all' solution. All formats have a place not just ito of pixels but depth of field and dynamic range, 'feel, ' handling etc etc..thats why we have medium format cameras and why there are still photographers out there shooting 8x10 inch sheet film. Just yesterday I read about a photographer that bought 12 000 sheets of 8x10 velvia transp film for plus minus 160 000 usd! You have to ask yourself why would he spend so much money on film when for that much money he could have bought the best cameras in the world...and still have change...or why someone like Duane Michals used the worst lens he could find and that 'multiple exposure' on his camera was more important than build quality and resolution of the lens....

We live in wonderful time now where there is something for everyone...and at every pricepoint...

Jay Khaos

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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 11:41:46 AM »
I held off too... I was clicking on the announcement thread and the B&H link everyday.... probably 5 different times I had it in my cart, but never pulled the trigger.

I'm kind of relieved that I didn't because I know I probably wouldn't have gotten $300 worth of use out of it.  Not to mention, I would definitely want the EF adapter if I had gotten it.

I narrowed down my internal debate about it to the same thing as you:  My 5D does more, so I figure I'll take the missed opportunity to force myself to make use of it even when it's size isn't as convenient.  Thats my excuse anyway!
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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 11:42:10 AM »
Big picture for me:

in pocket with polariser when my girlfriend has said 'don't bring your camera' and I've said 'what about this little one'?  Walking about on a sunday after lunch.

for video when I need / want to be discreet.   This sounds sinister, but in my work I often deal with people who aren't used to being on camera and a big full rig would just scare the bejesus out of them. 

I think its a great wee product, and augments rather than replaces anything else I have.

It can do 90% of the things my DSLRs can do, the IQ is super, and it's fun to use.  I don't think I'll be buying anymore EF-m lenses, the 22mm is perfect for snapshots.  For anything else I've got something else.

Canon got their pitching wrong.  Like all the EOS cameras it's only as good as the person using it, can be as easy or as involved as you aspire to.  The great failing was that AF out the box in easy mode wasn't good enough for the kind of folk who really need out the box easy mode.  The rest of us tinkered and found FW1 a pleasant surprise and FW2 a revelation.

The reviewers were right in a way to slate the M.  It's target market would be frustrated by an FW1 M.  Enthusiasts like me, especially tightwad scottish enthusiasts like me, tinker and dabble and found a competent little camera bursting to get out.


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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 12:01:19 PM »
It seems to me that suddenly the EOS-M has been getting a lot more positive attention than in the past - a result of many Canon Rumors visitors buying into the EOS-M and needing a little self-affirmation???  ::)

That said, there really is a use for a mirrorless. I've been taking my Nex to places where I don't want to or don't care to carry a DSLR. The new firmware really makes the EOS-M more interesting (but it still lacks an EVF - which is nice to have in strong light for instance).
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 12:09:56 PM by mrsfotografie »
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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 12:09:27 PM »
The M is not a DSLR (obviously) and is less capable in some ways than even the most basic of Canon's DSLR line-up. However there are a few significant advantages that the M has over any current Canon with at least an APS-C sensor.

1. Most obviously, it is smaller and lighter.

2. Short flange distance allows for optics-free adapters to fit many many lenses.

3. (And this is a big one for me.) It has the fastest live-view autofocus of any current APS-C or FF Canon that I know of. This allows for a whole new subject interaction dynamic that wasn't really possible with a Canon before.

There may be more I'm not thinking of, but these are a few of the reasons that I love it as a compliment to my Canon DSLR.

There may be better mirrorless cameras out there from different companies. I don't want to start that debate. This is just how I see the M as a great new addition to the Canon cannon. And the technology should only get better in the future.

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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 12:09:27 PM »


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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 12:10:08 PM »
For me it serves / will serve as an alternative 35mm prime. I was looking at the 35mm options for some time. The Sigma made the most sense but it's a bit bigger than what I wanted.
Then this deal came along and I thought hey, here's a fairly fast 35mm equivalent lens with a camera attached to it for less than half the price of the Sigma!
Since Canon don't make a EF 22mm f/2 for my 7D this way is a cheaper and lighter alternative way to having a 35 on one body and a 135 on the other. I used this combo a few days ago and it works really well. The IQ is really good. Good enough for what I do anyway!
For serious stuff like weddings I'll stick to the 5D/7D combo but for casual stuff and birthdays etc where I'll take just a handful of shots it is perfect. I don't see myself buying anymore EFM lenses or the adapter (though it is tempting!).
Also I noticed that JPEGs turn out pretty decent. I'm mainly a RAW shooter but I might leave the EOS M on JPEG setting for facebook and stuff (which is where the EOS M images will end up!)
Overall a very good impulse buy (for a a change!)
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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, 12:26:56 PM »
It seems to me that suddenly the EOS-M has been getting a lot more positive attention than in the past - a result of many Canon Rumors visitors buying into the EOS-M and needing a little self-affirmation???  ::)

I think that is a factor! ;).   I bet the EOS-M forum hasn't had this much activity since the camera's launch last year!

For me its a perfect compliment to my DSLR bodies.  I frequently have a need for a small camera I can carry in my pocket, either when I don't want to deal with the weight/size or when I don't want to attract too much attention or make subjects uncomfortable.  Up until now that has been a S100, which has worked pretty well, but its IQ and functionality is limited.  With its tiny sensor, its almost impossible to get a shallow DOF with the S100.  The EOS-M is only slightly larger and has much better IQ and the ability to use all my EF and EF-S lenses.  The interface and touchscreen look to be a nice upgrade over the S100 as well. 

So, I think this camera has a place as a 2nd/3rd pocket camera option for DSLR users as well as an upgrade path for P&S users.
5DsR, EF Lenses: 35mm f/2IS, Tamron 85mm f/1.8 VC, 300mm f/2.8L II IS, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8LII, 70-200mm f/2.8LII
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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2013, 01:31:56 PM »
I live in US. I visit Contract Manufactures(CM) in China & Hong Kong 3-5 times a year. As an over sea traveler, I like to carry compact camera while visiting these CMs. Standard P&S camera has great macro mode, but not so great in lower light – due to smaller sensor.   

I was thinking about Fuji x20 and Sony RX100, due to close focus macro mode these cameras have to offer and better IQ in lower light. Well, the price tags of both cameras are in high $500 to $600.

Why I picked EOS –M
1.   Price tag of course
2.   Bigger Sensor
3.   Be able to swap lenses - looking to add macro + UWA lens in pancake style
4.   AF speed is slower than my RX-1. But hey, electronic components don’t move around ;D I’m using it for still shooting

Bottom line is EOS-M allows me to shoot what I need. Below is a photo I took, subjects were tiny SMT components. It works just fine.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 02:36:47 PM by Dylan777 »


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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 01:54:56 PM »
I was in market for a camera that will replace my 8 yr old PowerShot and my priorities were changeable lenses(I like the idea of using legacy lenses) and DSLR image quality, and all that in compact body. Nikon D3200 was my choice until I went to target and saw it in person(heavy and less compact). I narrowed it down to EOS M and NEX 5R. I was leaning toward the NEX 5R because (a) the latest sensor tech compared to Canon's old sensor. (b) ability to fix distortion in camera. (c) tilt-able screen. Only downside is, the bundled Sony lens IQ is very inferior compared to Canon/Nikon lenses. And I wanted to have at least one decent performing electronic lens with camera. But still I would had gone with the NEX. But for $299, I don't regret purchasing the Canon. NEX body alone is $500. And I personally cannot tell difference in IQ between NEX 5R and EOS M after watching many sample images on net. Sure, The 5R body is superior to EOS M, but not extra $200 superior...not to me at least.

Other factor for choosing Canon was the colors that Canon produces; they just look so vibrant to me compared to any other cameras.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 02:04:22 PM by play »


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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2013, 02:02:57 PM »
Years ago I bought a Canon 30D because I couldn't get pictures of my daughter's sports activities with my slow-responding Canon Powershot point-and-shoot camera.  With the 30D, I rapidly fell in love with the ability to have full control over the exposure and the versatility of shooting in RAW format.  My wife learned how to shoot lovely portraits with it.

 Recently I needed to replace the 30D.  I already had some nice "L" lenses. The EOS-M cost half the price a Canon 60D and does everything the 30D did, along with better picture quality and, especially, the high ISO noise reduction.  Sometimes I miss the viewfinder, but mostly I hated the 30D's dim EVF, so in most situations I like the EOS-M's live-view better.  The focusing was not so great initially, but it was easy to adjust to shooting sports with the slow focus (pre-focus on the spot the subjects going to) even before the update. The focus is now quite livable with the update.

In conclusion, from a pro-sumer point of view, the EOS-M is a viable alternative to the Ti4, 60D, 7D Canon cameras for the person who is not using the camera as a paying job.  I looked at it from the perspective of cost-vs-picture quality. I just ordered a bunch of cheap Yonguo speedlights and wireless triggers and umbrellas to do some off-camera flash work.


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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, 02:25:52 PM »
So lets all go out and enjoy our new toys!

For the few days I have the M, makes me realize the $299 is well spent.
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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, 02:25:52 PM »


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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2013, 03:00:38 PM »
Thought about it but passed for now.  For me, the reason I gave it some thought is that I never (almost never), take my 5d3 to any family events like nephews birthday parties or those other "obligatory" affairs.  When I show up, everyone always asks me if I brought my camera before they even say hi!

I thought it may be more convenient to throw one of the "M's" in my pocket for just such events or to keep in the car if I go somewhere just for unexpected photo ops. 

I assume I'll pick one up sooner or later and I'm assuming the deal offered, although I didn't grab it, will be matched or exceeded by another deal on it again in the future... perhaps then~ :)

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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2013, 03:13:20 PM »
Someone on this board I believe has said multiple times that the strange thing about the M is that it benefits those who already know about photography/cameras more than those who don't, which is strange considering the price point and the entry level nature of it.

Having received mine the other day I feel the same way. Just one example: the big, clear LCD is great for manual focus lenses, and the ability to touch a point on the screen and zoom right into it quickly for precise MF is a boon. Of course my 5DIII can do the same in liveview, but I need to move the focus area with the little directional button to the right of the screen. It's actually easier and a lot faster on the M due to the touch screen. But how many people with an M are going to use MF or MF lenses? Not a whole lot, I imagine.

Anyway, big picture I think the M - especially at ~$300 - is perfect for those wanting to supplement their current gear, not replace it. If Canon came out with a FF mirrorless body, about Leica M size, with killer EVF and some small, sharp primes and good little zooms - well, IMO that's a replacement for a DSLR system, not a part of one. I think a lot of people are disappointed in the M because what they're really after is a replacement.

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Re: The Frenzy is Over.....
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2013, 03:13:20 PM »