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Author Topic: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?  (Read 9246 times)

itsnotmeyouknow

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 02:18:11 PM »
.
I don't know anything about this, but I keep hearing the point & shoot segment is shrinking due to smart phones having good cameras that do stills and video. Makes sense to me given how most people react to photography.

The issue seems more redundancy than perceived camera quality or versatility. I don't think people buy smart phones for their cameras although they may play some role in deciding which specific smart phone to buy -- phone vs phone, not phone vs point & shoot camera. The smart phone is the desirable object so it gets acquired. And once you have it you pay $1000 or more per year to operate it. Most folks aren't committed enough to photography to add more expense with a dedicated small camera. Why buy a separate thing if it only does what the phone will do? The photographer community can argue better image quality, increased versatility, etc., but most people don't care that much. The phone gets a picture -- instantly they can send it electronically to friends & family. Even a point & shoot with WIFI is going to be dependent on a WIFI connection so it may not be instant gratification. If they want a print they can go to Walgreen's or CVS and get one for five or 10 cents. Hell, even the cheapie little "portrait studios" at Walmart and Sears are shutting down.

For several reasons, photography one of them, I used to carry a small compass. Now I have one in my smart phone so I'm not buying a compass anymore. Redundancy. There was a time I carried a small reference book with lots of photography info -- DOF guides, ASA (ISO) info, flash guides, a gray card, etc. I don't consider buying such guides today because all that, and much more, is in my phone (well, not the gray card, I guess!). Redundancy. I see and hear a trend toward younger people not using wristwatches -- their phones give the correct time. Redundancy. I've even stopped wearing a wristwatch most of the time. I also often carried a stopwatch, especially for sport events -- my phone does that now. Redundancy. The greatest stopwatch/watch/compass/etc. ever made for a smart phone has no influence on whether I buy any of those objects individually. They get the job done in the phone, and that's all I care about.

Anecdotally, I just don't see people using point & shoot cameras anymore. I see either smart phones or bridge/DSLR cameras.

The trouble is that many people use this philosophy of not bringing a compass on to a mountain too seriously.  In the UK there have been numerous call outs to the (voluntary) mountain rescue teams to rescue them because the battery in their phone has run dry.  The trouble is that redundancy might be apparent, but that doesn't mean it's real.

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 02:18:11 PM »

cayenne

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 02:20:16 PM »
I just read some of the reviews on the Lumia 1020. I have to say, from a photography standpoint, I am REALLY impressed. It finally brings the true PureView 808's 41mp sensor, the 6-element Zeiss lens from the 925, and full Xenon flash to a phone pretty much built for photography. Their pro photo software looks rather nice, giving you complete control over all the standard aspects of exposure (i.e. want to do a long exposure and blur people walking by...you can). I love the fact that it has the extended battery "grip" accessory, too.

http://www.nokia.com/global/products/phone/lumia1020


So, does this mark the true end of the point and shoot, and the beginning of full blown photography phones with all the features we *photographers* have come to expect from an actual camera? To date, phone cameras have been geared more towards the instagrammer crowd...the Lumia 1020 seems to be positioned more for pro photographers who want something simpler, but still just as capable, for a handy every-moment alternative to a DSLR.

Is it only me who thinks this?


I don't think there is much of anyone (camera or other phones) that will have much to fear from competiton from this phone, as long as it is running Windows.

 ;D ;D

Cayenne

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2013, 03:17:06 PM »
Sensor is a lot smaller than the one in say an RX100. Fixed lens (yeah you can sort of digitally zoom with the high MP a count a bit but still). etc. So I don't see where you are coming from. It's great for a phone though. For some it may be enough, either they go fully serious and DSLR or this though.

caruser

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2013, 03:19:20 PM »
The trouble is that many people use this philosophy of not bringing a compass on to a mountain too seriously.  In the UK there have been numerous call outs to the (voluntary) mountain rescue teams to rescue them because the battery in their phone has run dry.  The trouble is that redundancy might be apparent, but that doesn't mean it's real.
Battery life is a very real problem with modern smartphones, you get all the features, but not for very long!

caruser

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2013, 03:20:20 PM »
Anecdotally, I just don't see people using point & shoot cameras anymore. I see either smart phones or bridge/DSLR cameras.
And, it appears, many iPads and other tablets, seems like more than p/s cameras...

jrista

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2013, 03:20:22 PM »
I guess I'd like to keep things separated while batteries have just enough juice for one day on those huge screen phones. I'd rather shoot as much as I like, use the flash as much as I like, without having to think if I can get through the day. (These things change rather quickly, though.)

I make pretty heavy use of my Lumia each day, and it gets at least 9 hours of battery life. It doesn't have a Xenon flash, but it does have an exceptionally bright duel LED flash (very high MCD). I'm not sure that the screen is really the primary power draw anyway...the bigger draw is usually the LTE and WiFi, both of which I keep on at all times now since AT&T went the way of Verizon, and is now capping bandwidth at 5Gb/mo (I browse enough high def photography and videos on my phone that I can burn through that).

One of the things I like about Windows Phone 8 is that it is actually quite efficient, and when the battery drops below a certain threshold, you can configure it to enter a low-power mode where it will only turn on the LTE or WiFi if you actually need to use it. That usually extends my battery another three hours, so I can usually get 12 hours a day out of my 920.
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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2013, 03:27:49 PM »
I just read some of the reviews on the Lumia 1020. I have to say, from a photography standpoint, I am REALLY impressed. It finally brings the true PureView 808's 41mp sensor, the 6-element Zeiss lens from the 925, and full Xenon flash to a phone pretty much built for photography. Their pro photo software looks rather nice, giving you complete control over all the standard aspects of exposure (i.e. want to do a long exposure and blur people walking by...you can). I love the fact that it has the extended battery "grip" accessory, too.

http://www.nokia.com/global/products/phone/lumia1020


So, does this mark the true end of the point and shoot, and the beginning of full blown photography phones with all the features we *photographers* have come to expect from an actual camera? To date, phone cameras have been geared more towards the instagrammer crowd...the Lumia 1020 seems to be positioned more for pro photographers who want something simpler, but still just as capable, for a handy every-moment alternative to a DSLR.

Is it only me who thinks this?


I don't think there is much of anyone (camera or other phones) that will have much to fear from competiton from this phone, as long as it is running Windows.

 ;D ;D

Cayenne


Have you actually used a Windows Phone 8 device? They are certainly not a joke, and after owning several generations of iPhone, I much prefer the Metro experience. The app gap is shrinking fast, and most of the apps I want are already available, and those that aren't are either coming, or I can write myself. I'd also point out that as the Android vs. iPhone battle has raged, iPhone has been losing, while Android and Windows have been gaining. Windows market share is about doubling every year, particularly with the Nokia Lumia phones. Again, I think people who skip past a Lumia just because its Nokia or just because its Windows are short changing themselves.
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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2013, 03:27:49 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2013, 03:38:13 PM »
I just don't see people using point & shoot cameras anymore. I see either smart phones or bridge/DSLR cameras.
Most of my photography at work is done on an ipad.... For what I need, it is way more convenient than a DSLR. The pictures are not as good, but they are certainly good enough and the convenience is unbeatable.

Wildlife photography is a different story... Long lenses on a dslr can't be beat. I am not the type to walk up to a polar bear, shove a phone in its face, and snap away while it chews on my leg...

There is a time and place for both DSLR's and phones, but as the abilities of phone cameras increases, p/s cameras get squeezed out. Phone pictures are good enough for Facebook and the bulk of the market is in that area.

BTW, I have been watching the Tour de France, almost everyone you see taking pictures along the race is using phone cameras and p/s.... Very few DSLRs.....
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Don Haines

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2013, 03:51:38 PM »
The trouble is that many people use this philosophy of not bringing a compass on to a mountain too seriously.  In the UK there have been numerous call outs to the (voluntary) mountain rescue teams to rescue them because the battery in their phone has run dry.  The trouble is that redundancy might be apparent, but that doesn't mean it's real.
I carry compass, paper map (never had the batteries die on a paper map), food, water, matches, space blanket, headlamp, and emergency shelter on day hikes away from the roads... I have found lost and exhausted hikers and brought them out of the woods after dark, and once overnighted with a couple an brought them out in the morning. People think that as soon as they don't show up that someone goes looking for them.... You are lucky if the search starts in 24 hours...be prepared to spend the night out!
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zim

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2013, 04:31:29 PM »

Have you actually used a Windows Phone 8 device? They are certainly not a joke, and after owning several generations of iPhone, I much prefer the Metro experience. The app gap is shrinking fast, and most of the apps I want are already available, and those that aren't are either coming, or I can write myself. I'd also point out that as the Android vs. iPhone battle has raged, iPhone has been losing, while Android and Windows have been gaining. Windows market share is about doubling every year, particularly with the Nokia Lumia phones. Again, I think people who skip past a Lumia just because its Nokia or just because its Windows are short changing themselves.

No point in having that argument really, not going to win anything.
I find the 'apps gap' irrelevant in about 5 mins I'd downloaded (free) every app I'm likely to need on my phone. (Nokia 925 win8)

I think what Nokia are doing is facinating, apart from IQ what I want to see improving substantially though is focus and shutter lag.


distant.star

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 05:31:36 PM »
The trouble is that many people use this philosophy of not bringing a compass on to a mountain too seriously.  In the UK there have been numerous call outs to the (voluntary) mountain rescue teams to rescue them because the battery in their phone has run dry.  The trouble is that redundancy might be apparent, but that doesn't mean it's real.

If you go to a grocery store and take no money, you get no food.

Trouble is, I said nothing about mountaineering, backpacking or even day hiking. I know there are fools who think a smart phone is a tool in the wilderness; those people get what they deserve. Unfortunately, they call us to come rescue them because they are unprepared and don't know what they're doing.

I have zero tolerance for idiots in some backcountry areas using cell phones to call emergency services to deliver water -- and such things happen. However, my comments had nothing to do with this.

The multiple examples I cited to make a case for redundancy are very real, including the compass. You can also probably make a case that after a nuclear war your smart phone won't work, but that old reliable point and shoot camera will. How would that be relevant to this discussion?

There's a useful book I frequently recommend to people:

The Art of Clear Thinking by Rudolf Flesch.
Walter: Were you listening to The Dude's story? Donny: I was bowling. Walter: So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

MrFotoFool

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 05:54:47 PM »
The trouble is that many people use this philosophy of not bringing a compass on to a mountain too seriously.  In the UK there have been numerous call outs to the (voluntary) mountain rescue teams to rescue them because the battery in their phone has run dry.  The trouble is that redundancy might be apparent, but that doesn't mean it's real.

If the battery in their phone was dead, then how did they call the rescue team?  :P

jrista

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 06:17:07 PM »

Have you actually used a Windows Phone 8 device? They are certainly not a joke, and after owning several generations of iPhone, I much prefer the Metro experience. The app gap is shrinking fast, and most of the apps I want are already available, and those that aren't are either coming, or I can write myself. I'd also point out that as the Android vs. iPhone battle has raged, iPhone has been losing, while Android and Windows have been gaining. Windows market share is about doubling every year, particularly with the Nokia Lumia phones. Again, I think people who skip past a Lumia just because its Nokia or just because its Windows are short changing themselves.

No point in having that argument really, not going to win anything.
I find the 'apps gap' irrelevant in about 5 mins I'd downloaded (free) every app I'm likely to need on my phone. (Nokia 925 win8)

I think what Nokia are doing is facinating, apart from IQ what I want to see improving substantially though is focus and shutter lag.

Shutter lag on an electronic shutter has always been an oddity to me. Is it simply because most smartphone cameras (and, for that matter, P&S cameras) insist on making a cutsie and unbelievably annoying little fake shutter click when people press the button? I figure, assuming the lens is focused, taking a picture should be near instantaneous...
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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 06:17:07 PM »

cayenne

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2013, 11:04:12 AM »
I just read some of the reviews on the Lumia 1020. I have to say, from a photography standpoint, I am REALLY impressed. It finally brings the true PureView 808's 41mp sensor, the 6-element Zeiss lens from the 925, and full Xenon flash to a phone pretty much built for photography. Their pro photo software looks rather nice, giving you complete control over all the standard aspects of exposure (i.e. want to do a long exposure and blur people walking by...you can). I love the fact that it has the extended battery "grip" accessory, too.

http://www.nokia.com/global/products/phone/lumia1020


So, does this mark the true end of the point and shoot, and the beginning of full blown photography phones with all the features we *photographers* have come to expect from an actual camera? To date, phone cameras have been geared more towards the instagrammer crowd...the Lumia 1020 seems to be positioned more for pro photographers who want something simpler, but still just as capable, for a handy every-moment alternative to a DSLR.

Is it only me who thinks this?


I don't think there is much of anyone (camera or other phones) that will have much to fear from competiton from this phone, as long as it is running Windows.

 ;D ;D

Cayenne


Have you actually used a Windows Phone 8 device? They are certainly not a joke, and after owning several generations of iPhone, I much prefer the Metro experience. The app gap is shrinking fast, and most of the apps I want are already available, and those that aren't are either coming, or I can write myself. I'd also point out that as the Android vs. iPhone battle has raged, iPhone has been losing, while Android and Windows have been gaining. Windows market share is about doubling every year, particularly with the Nokia Lumia phones. Again, I think people who skip past a Lumia just because its Nokia or just because its Windows are short changing themselves.


So far, I've not been able to stomach ANY version of Metro, no matter the platform it is on...I think M$ is really shooting itself in the foot with this, and it is showing with Win8 sales.

But to each his own...I prefer to play with Linux and OSX these days, and only run windows (win7) on VMs for apps that absolutely won't run on anything else.

But whatever pleases a person.

I have been curious, however, who the guy was that was buying the Windows phones....nice to meet you!

:)

cayenne

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2013, 11:07:19 AM »

Have you actually used a Windows Phone 8 device? They are certainly not a joke, and after owning several generations of iPhone, I much prefer the Metro experience. The app gap is shrinking fast, and most of the apps I want are already available, and those that aren't are either coming, or I can write myself. I'd also point out that as the Android vs. iPhone battle has raged, iPhone has been losing, while Android and Windows have been gaining. Windows market share is about doubling every year, particularly with the Nokia Lumia phones. Again, I think people who skip past a Lumia just because its Nokia or just because its Windows are short changing themselves.

No point in having that argument really, not going to win anything.
I find the 'apps gap' irrelevant in about 5 mins I'd downloaded (free) every app I'm likely to need on my phone. (Nokia 925 win8)

I think what Nokia are doing is facinating, apart from IQ what I want to see improving substantially though is focus and shutter lag.

Shutter lag on an electronic shutter has always been an oddity to me. Is it simply because most smartphone cameras (and, for that matter, P&S cameras) insist on making a cutsie and unbelievably annoying little fake shutter click when people press the button? I figure, assuming the lens is focused, taking a picture should be near instantaneous...

If I recall correctly, at least in the US...the sound was MANDATED by law, to foil upskirt photographers that were taking pics of chicks walking around in skirts without them knowing.

Apparently enough of a ruckus was raised and it was mandated that cameras on phones make a sound when they were activated.

C

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Re: The Lumia 1020...final death blow to the Point and Shoot?
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2013, 11:07:19 AM »