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Author Topic: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]  (Read 8992 times)

Sabaki

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 06:59:12 AM »
At the very least I hope they fix those stupid tiny buttons on the 430EXII!

Most def!!! Those buttons are too recessed and too small. My single biggest issue with the 430 EX II
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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 06:59:12 AM »

rt

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 08:33:23 AM »
...if they could add master function in the 430ex II replacement, I am definitely in.

Unlikely.  There's no technical reason the 430EX II can't be a master, the control signals for Canon's optical triggering come from the main flash tube, and the 430EX II obviously has one of those.  So expect a replacement 4x0EX flash to be slave only, but able to be triggered by both RF (600EX-RT or ST-E3-RT) or optical masters.
A few years ago I'd have agreed completely with this prediction however today I am not completely sure -- Canon seem to be trying to catch up by adding wireless and master capability to their smaller flashes.

430EX is a special case (from the market perspective) that is not very likely to get Master but seeing where things are going I wouldn't be surprised if Canon did just that.

Personally, I only care because I need something that can trigger remote flashes (optical or RT), doesn't necessarily have to flash itself but it needs to have solid AF assist. Even if Canon add RT master capability to their next gen cams (and I hope they will, there's nothing preventing them from doing so, especially that the business case is already there with 7D being able to be Master), I will still miss the latter -- thus I am very interested in a flash that is lighter than 580EX/ 600EX, like the 430EX replacement or (better) 270EX / 320EX / 380EX replacement -- with RT/ optical master and real AF assist (the red lights); I could use the LED light as well, but that's a minor thing.

KyleSTL

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2013, 11:18:16 AM »
... solid AF assist.

I agree, I love my ST-E2 for that reason.  Why they removed it on the ST-E3 is baffling.  If you want to buy new you only have three choices right now: 430EX II and 600EX-RT, neither of which is small or light; or the ST-E2 with a soon to be out-out-of-date protocol and a battery that is becoming pretty rare.

Even the relatively ancient 220EX had a proper AF assist beam (albeit only for the center AF point and a range of 16 ft).  I feel that all flashes and commanders should have proper AF assistance.  Is Canon so confident in its newest AF technology that it doesn't feel the need to add these things anymore?  And what about those of us who don't have a 1D X, 5D Mark III or 6D?
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Wildfire

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2013, 02:16:20 PM »
Is Canon so confident in its newest AF technology that it doesn't feel the need to add these things anymore?

I've found that I almost don't need AF assist with the 6D's super-sensitive center point, however focus still locks quicker with the AF assist on so I continue to use it (and will refuse to buy an ST-E3 because it lacks that feature)

privatebydesign

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2013, 02:36:07 PM »
Why they removed it on the ST-E3 is baffling. 

Not really, the ST-E3-RT is a radio based wireless transmitter, the ST-E2 is a wireless communication device that uses light to transmit information, the ST-E2 has to have a light emitting tube, so enabling AF assist is comparatively easy with no additional hardware costs. The ST-E3-RT, does not need a light emitting tube to fulfill its primary function, radio flash control, adding AF assist is no small job and would necessitate addition hardware and costs.

neuroanatomist

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2013, 02:45:29 PM »
Why they removed it on the ST-E3 is baffling. 

Not really, the ST-E3-RT is a radio based wireless transmitter, the ST-E2 is a wireless communication device that uses light to transmit information, the ST-E2 has to have a light emitting tube, so enabling AF assist is comparatively easy with no additional hardware costs. The ST-E3-RT, does not need a light emitting tube to fulfill its primary function, radio flash control, adding AF assist is no small job and would necessitate addition hardware and costs.

Not really.  The AF assist lamp on the ST-E2 is separate from the xenon flash tube that's used to trigger remote flashes. There's no reason it couldn't have been added to the ST-E3...except to induce people to spend twice as much on a 600EX-RT as a master, if they want an AF assist lamp. 
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privatebydesign

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2013, 03:34:22 PM »
Good point  :)

If I wanted AF assist I'd campaign to Yonuguo for either a YT-E3-RT with assist, or a small AF assist unit with a pass-through. Their ST-E2 clone has bounce capabilities which the Canon doesn't.

On the gadget front I'd pay good money for a swiveling hotshoe pass-through block. I hate the screen angle of the ST-E3-RT, when the camera is mounted on a tripod and tilted down I can't see or us it!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 03:39:15 PM by privatebydesign »

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2013, 03:34:22 PM »

Hannes

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2013, 12:18:30 PM »
Indeed, I wonder how long it takes for yonguo to hack the RT system, not that I'm entirely sure it can be done though. I'm going to assume canon has built in lots of checks to prevent hacking it, something that ought to be far easier with a radio transmitter than something that emits normal light

Marsu42

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2013, 12:45:09 PM »
Indeed, I wonder how long it takes for yonguo to hack the RT system, not that I'm entirely sure it can be done though. I'm going to assume canon has built in lots of checks to prevent hacking it.

I'm also keen to see how long it takes to reverse engineer the rt protocol. Of course it theoretically *could* be prevented by Canon by using strong asymmetric cryptography (i.e. you cannot replay the communication, and each flash has a different key signed by Canon's secret master key).

Still, I wonder if Canon would really go to such lengths to screw 3rd party manufacturers - after all, cheaper 3rd party units (lenses, flashes) are also a strength of the Canon system vs. for example Pentax.

Lawliet

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2013, 09:35:10 PM »
(i.e. you cannot replay the communication, and each flash has a different key signed by Canon's secret master key).


At least straight replay won't work as there is a two way communication between controller and remote. The camera is aware of the capabilities & status of the flashes it talks to.
Remember all that 3rd party flashes that suddenly didn't work on the hot shoe of the 1Dx? Same challenge, but for a protocol that is intended to be more flexible.
(And didn't at least one of the big players patet protect a radio solution? That would make getting the products through customs interesting. See the first Phottix Atlas...a simple PW receiver with hot shoe would have been nice though)

jdramirez

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2013, 11:07:00 PM »
I literally just upgraded to a 580 ex ii... so while I may be tempted... it isn't going to happen.
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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2013, 11:35:59 PM »
I literally just upgraded to a 580 ex ii... so while I may be tempted... it isn't going to happen.

After using the 600ex, I can't go back.  It supports a zoom range up to 200mm, which makes a 70-200 much more useful indoors.

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 03:01:44 PM »
They really need to make the investment in the RT tech worth while.. meaning lesser flashes that have the ability to join RT groups.  Perhaps even a receiver only hotshoe that can make any TTL2 flash they have a slave.  That would show that Canon cares about its customers.  I'd love to "recruit" my old 580EX to be a radio slave to use as a fill flash or a background light. 

Or have the pocket wizard guys reverse engineer and ST-RT and control flashes that way.....


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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 03:01:44 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2013, 10:30:52 PM »
They really need to make the investment in the RT tech worth while.. meaning lesser flashes that have the ability to join RT groups.  Perhaps even a receiver only hotshoe that can make any TTL2 flash they have a slave.  That would show that Canon cares about its customers.  I'd love to "recruit" my old 580EX to be a radio slave to use as a fill flash or a background light. 

Or have the pocket wizard guys reverse engineer and ST-RT and control flashes that way.....

That is just not going to happen. The RT system uses a completely different series of protocols to support a completely different set of functions, a fully RT system compatible RT trigger would have to over ride the older flashes firmware and provide complete flash control, that isn't a cheap option so will never come to market from Canon and, I suspect, would be too big an undertaking for the third party manufacturers too. I do expect third party manufacturers to come out with RT compatible flashes in time, but not RT triggers that upgrade older flashes to the RT functionality.


Marsu42

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2013, 12:54:13 AM »
I do expect third party manufacturers to come out with RT compatible flashes in time, but not RT triggers that upgrade older flashes to the RT functionality.

I predict you're mistaken - unless Canon has invested a lot of work into (strong asymmetric) encrypting their rt protocol, Yongnuo will reverse engineer it shortly and then might even provide rt triggers first before integrated rt flashes - that's because this way they can keep their flash lineup compatible with multiple manufacturers.

Given the current price range of rt flashes there is very much money to be made from the large amount of people with legacy non-rt equipment and, Yongnuo's own radio protocol doesn't provide group mode - so they'll try hard.

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Re: A New Flash by Years End? [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2013, 12:54:13 AM »