August 23, 2014, 01:45:17 AM

Author Topic: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops  (Read 30397 times)

ishdakuteb

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2013, 11:39:21 PM »
why not 36Mp and the best DR ?

your imges look best with a camera that you think it is the best?  to me those, i have seen, are not.

D800/E is already 36Mp with 14.5 stop DR... without the ISO tricks

how do you know so sure that nikon does not do iso tricks?  i am not so sure about this, but i saw "nikon iso less method" on the first line of implementation part.

//-------------------------

however, kudos to ML team about releasing this engineering test load even though i am not going to put it in my cameras since i do not have under exposed problems like ankorwatt and i am just a hobbyist...

then you don't understand the difference in the read out between Canon and Nikon/Sonys sensors

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/cat/camsec/solutions/E_CMOS_Sensor_WP_110427.pdf
page4

well, like i have said that i do care about technique than camera specs.  how about your camera techniques?  crap is what i think...
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 01:42:22 AM by ishdakuteb »

Famateur

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #76 on: July 19, 2013, 12:39:47 AM »
i just popped in to see how this was going, and from what i can see the most entertaining aspect of this thread are the sweet "princess bride" lines. neuro, you are the man.

Agreed!

fman

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #77 on: July 19, 2013, 04:36:32 AM »
Excellent (and very inventive) idea.
Unfortunately the resolution probably will be somewhat reduced, so real improvement should rather come from the sensor.
I hope that Canon will improve the sensor readout noise in future sensors so that there is no need for SW tricks.
Even the full well capacity is bigger for Canon sensors (due to bigger pixels) the readout noise is so high that in case of low ISO it cancels all the advantages of big pixels and limits the dynamic range.


Krob78

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2013, 11:19:47 AM »
Excellent (and very inventive) idea.
Unfortunately the resolution probably will be somewhat reduced, so real improvement should rather come from the sensor.
I hope that Canon will improve the sensor readout noise in future sensors so that there is no need for SW tricks.
Even the full well capacity is bigger for Canon sensors (due to bigger pixels) the readout noise is so high that in case of low ISO it cancels all the advantages of big pixels and limits the dynamic range.
Quote
I hope that Canon will improve the sensor readout noise in future sensors so that there is no need for SW tricks
Need the SW tricks or not, I can only imagine that the software junkies will always pursue improvement and "tricks"...  :)
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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2013, 11:28:45 AM »
i just popped in to see how this was going, and from what i can see the most entertaining aspect of this thread are the sweet "princess bride" lines. neuro, you are the man.

Agreed!
neuro is the man. As are so many others on this forum.

Why am I on this thread? Never mind!

neuroanatomist

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2013, 08:16:28 PM »
keep your self to the subject and look at the specs

Ok. When I look at the 5DIII vs. the D800, I see a faster frame rate, better AF, better ergonomics and UI, much better Live View, and compatibility with better lenses (including those from Nikon, if one is willing to control them manually).  Oh, and a bit less DR.  Therefore, overall I see a better camera in the 5DIII.  But then again, when I look at the specs, I'm not DRunk on DR and wearing DxOMark blinDRs.
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dlleno

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2013, 09:19:42 PM »
Lol drunk on DR that's classic!

CarlTN

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #82 on: July 22, 2013, 11:36:17 PM »
How come nobody else is hacking cameras?  Why is it always magic lantern?

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #83 on: July 22, 2013, 11:49:23 PM »
How come nobody else is hacking cameras?  Why is it always magic lantern?

Why duplicate what someone else has already done? Join in and work on something that interests you or make an existing feature work better.

Now, occasionally it can make sense to have multiple projects that put out stuff that fundamentally does the same thing, but has a different interface or way of operating that enough other people find useful. But when it comes to cameras, something that's quite difficult to work on and are relatively expensive (mostly) to get even 1 to develop for, it makes a lot of sense to only have 1 main project and maybe if you really need something special just for you, a branch that you keep up to date with the mainline.
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jrista

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2013, 12:31:15 AM »
How come nobody else is hacking cameras?  Why is it always magic lantern?

Why duplicate what someone else has already done? Join in and work on something that interests you or make an existing feature work better.

Well...duplication happens all the time! :P Just look at the OSS community...throughout its history, it's been riddled with people starting projects that have already been done, because someone thinks they can do better. In one sense, that's a great thing...you often do get better products than whatever may have come before. On the other hand...good projects that came before sometimes don't get the help or talent they need to become even better... Guess its one of those unwinnable scenarios...you can't have both...new projects that are better or existing projects that are the best they can possibly be...

Now, occasionally it can make sense to have multiple projects that put out stuff that fundamentally does the same thing, but has a different interface or way of operating that enough other people find useful. But when it comes to cameras, something that's quite difficult to work on and are relatively expensive (mostly) to get even 1 to develop for, it makes a lot of sense to only have 1 main project and maybe if you really need something special just for you, a branch that you keep up to date with the mainline.

I think you nailed it here...the cost of purchasing cameras in order to have the hardware to test with is probably the major barrier to entry. The good thing is that ML is a great product, and they are likely to attract any other talent willing to contribute, making it that much better in the long run.
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Drizzt321

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2013, 01:34:58 AM »
keep your self to the subject and look at the specs

Ok. When I look at the 5DIII vs. the D800, I see a faster frame rate, better AF, better ergonomics and UI, much better Live View, and compatibility with better lenses (including those from Nikon, if one is willing to control them manually).  Oh, and a bit less DR.  Therefore, overall I see a better camera in the 5DIII.  But then again, when I look at the specs, I'm not DRunk on DR and wearing DxOMark blinDRs.


a bit less DR ?, 3 stops are a lot
better color rendering
higher resolution
no banding
shorter exposure time, no need for ETTR


how can you measure the ergonomics aspects?

I think you're talking about workflow, not ergonomics. The ergonomics of the camera don't change appreciably (other than menu settings to enable/disable it), but the workflow after you download it changes for better or worse.
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poias

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2013, 01:58:29 AM »
Oh, and a bit less DR.  Therefore, overall I see a better camera in the 5DIII.

2.5 stops of less DR is "a bit less"? And on top of amazing DR, you get more than 50% detail with D800. I know you have to make excuses but this is just sad.

Skulker

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2013, 02:50:01 AM »
If Canon has a 75Mp camera there will be about  one stop more DR compared to the low res cameras as 1dx, 5dmk3

Canon's problems with DR is the  pixel DR, so the only way to get more DR (if they not have changed the read out in the new 75mp sensor) is to have more pixels.

At least even you put some "if"s into your total guesses that you are making without any knowledge of the camera you now denigrate in typical ankorwatt fashion.

I find it difficult to believe that you really think you know what is in a camera that no one who has seen it is giving any technical details about. If it even exists . Surely even you are not that misguided.
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

jrista

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2013, 03:01:15 AM »
If Canon has a 75Mp camera there will be about  one stop more DR compared to the low res cameras as 1dx, 5dmk3

Canon's problems with DR is the  pixel DR, so the only way to get more DR (if they not have changed the read out in the new 75mp sensor) is to have more pixels.

At least even you put some "if"s into your total guesses that you are making without any knowledge of the camera you now denigrate in typical ankorwatt fashion.

I find it difficult to believe that you really think you know what is in a camera that no one who has seen it is giving any technical details about. If it even exists . Surely even you are not that misguided.

Surely!  :P
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2013, 08:06:26 AM »
keep your self to the subject and look at the specs

Ok. When I look at the 5DIII vs. the D800, I see a faster frame rate, better AF, better ergonomics and UI, much better Live View, and compatibility with better lenses (including those from Nikon, if one is willing to control them manually).  Oh, and a bit less DR.  Therefore, overall I see a better camera in the 5DIII.  But then again, when I look at the specs, I'm not DRunk on DR and wearing DxOMark blinDRs.


a bit less DR ?, 3 stops are a lot
better color rendering
higher resolution
no banding
using shorter exposure time, no need for the same  ETTR exposure as in  Canon to keep noise down and increase the risk of clipping in the highlight

how can you measure the ergonomics aspects??

Only matters if there are more than 11 stops of DR in your scene.

Regardless, every "feature" you listed derives from the sensor.  You and the others who DRone on about DR and DRag every thread down into the dolDRums seem unable to grasp the fact that there is more to a camera than the sensor inside of it.
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