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Author Topic: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops  (Read 32371 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2013, 08:48:49 AM »
You Neuro said, I thought my camera 5dmk3 had good AF until I got my 1DX. (I can find the exact text somewhere)
This is the big problem here , several of you lacks comparisons between system but you declare always Canon as better, regardless it is lenses or camera bodies.
 

Yes, please find the exact text.  I have never owned a 5DIII, so it seems pretty unliklely that I made such a statement. I made such a statement concerning the 7D, so I believe your faulty memory is the big problem here.

Perseverating on one single aspect of camera performance is another problem here.  We're discussing photography.  There are breathtaking, inspiring photographs with 6 stops of DR...just as there are crappy, boring photographs with 13.2 stops of DR (many of them right here on these forums, imagine that  ::) ).   While DR can easily be quantified, there's a lot more to making a picture.  But go ahead and DRone on...who knows, maybe one day you'll get as tired of writing it as the rest of us are of reading it (other DR addicts notwithstanding).
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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2013, 08:48:49 AM »

shulya

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #91 on: July 23, 2013, 09:43:31 AM »
Can moderator please get rid of the crap about Canon vs D800..
Somebody please post some image results before and after the firmware hack, is it worth installing it and what are the visible drawbacks?

jrista

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2013, 09:45:50 AM »
Can moderator please get rid of the crap about Canon vs D800..
Somebody please post some image results before and after the firmware hack, is it worth installing it and what are the visible drawbacks?

Wow, first post and your asking mods to delete content?

As for comparisons, the ML team provided that in their PDF document that explains how they did what they did. There is a batman comparison and a juice carton comparison, both of which seem to demonstrate the benefits quite well.

Marsu42

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #93 on: July 23, 2013, 10:07:00 AM »
Can moderator please get rid of the crap about Canon vs D800..

Please don't, I'm very grateful the mods in this forum don't "clean up" threads according to their perception of the topic, elsewhere I find this is ultra-annoying. Even with the good ok' Karma gone, CR posters seem to be able to steer a thread in meaningful bounds, or abandon it if it degrades to silliness after a long time which is also ok.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #94 on: July 23, 2013, 10:08:43 AM »
Can moderator please get rid of the crap about Canon vs D800..

If they did that, the number of posts on this forum would be cut in half.   :P
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Zv

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #95 on: July 23, 2013, 10:55:25 AM »
I swear every thread turns into the same thing!

What exactly is ankorwatt trying to say? That we should all immediately go out and buy a D800? While we're at it should we all have the same hairstyles and wear the same clothes?

Haven't you heard of choice? We choose to shoot Canon because we like it.

Now, do you actually take any pictures with the D800 or what? Can you show us an example of when you needed the extra 2 or 3 stops? No really, I want to see. I have no clue what it looks like. I thought shadows were meant to be black, doesn't it look fake if they're not?


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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #96 on: July 23, 2013, 12:02:47 PM »
I swear every thread turns into the same thing!

What exactly is ankorwatt trying to say? That we should all immediately go out and buy a D800? While we're at it should we all have the same hairstyles and wear the same clothes?

Haven't you heard of choice? We choose to shoot Canon because we like it.

Now, do you actually take any pictures with the D800 or what? Can you show us an example of when you needed the extra 2 or 3 stops? No really, I want to see. I have no clue what it looks like. I thought shadows were meant to be black, doesn't it look fake if they're not?


yes and I shoot also Canon because I like it, but as you  all can  se there are answers like above, when the benefits of 3 more stops of DR  are useful  ?????
It is always useful
WHY do YOU think Magic Lantern are trying to squeeze out a larger dynamic range
Mikael, are you a photographer?

If yes, more pictures and less talk. And by pictures I mean other things than DRab stuff. I mean artistically or technically great stuff.

If no, its ok. I mean just talk from you is ok. I'll understand.

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #96 on: July 23, 2013, 12:02:47 PM »

Drizzt321

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #97 on: July 23, 2013, 12:03:52 PM »
WHY do YOU think Magic Lantern are trying to squeeze out a larger dynamic range

Because they're hackers (see original definition), it's there, and because they can. Side benefits are it's a crazy idea, but it can work and likely provide some practical benefits to some photographers. But mostly because it's there.
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Marsu42

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #98 on: July 23, 2013, 12:23:07 PM »
Can you show us an example of when you needed the extra 2 or 3 stops? No really, I want to see. I have no clue what it looks like.

Constantly promoting specific Nikon products in a Canon forum might not be necessary, but I don't get the recent witchhunt for people wishing for more dynamic range ... of course it's useful in high contrast situations, even though even 2-3 stops more isn't enough to pull back all clipped highlights, but it sure would help.

Attached is some shot I recently wished for more dynamic range as it was a noon shot with clipped whites.

I thought shadows were meant to be black, doesn't it look fake if they're not?

If you really don't know the problem you're lucky and seem to be shooting completely different stuff to what I do. There's a difference between clipped shadows because of limited dr and deep shadows where *you* want them in postprocessing - or you should be happy with a mobile phone and half the dr of a current dslr because then images are  destined to look natural, aren't they? No, of course not, +100 contrast is as unnatural as raising shadows until there is the distinct fake "hdr" look.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #99 on: July 23, 2013, 12:29:43 PM »
You Neuro said, I thought my camera 5dmk3 had good AF until I got my 1DX. (I can find the exact text somewhere)
This is the big problem here , several of you lacks comparisons between system but you declare always Canon as better, regardless it is lenses or camera bodies.
 

Yes, please find the exact text.  I have never owned a 5DIII, so it seems pretty unliklely that I made such a statement. I made such a statement concerning the 7D, so I believe your faulty memory is the big problem here.

Perseverating on one single aspect of camera performance is another problem here.  We're discussing photography.  There are breathtaking, inspiring photographs with 6 stops of DR...just as there are crappy, boring photographs with 13.2 stops of DR (many of them right here on these forums, imagine that  ::) ).   While DR can easily be quantified, there's a lot more to making a picture.  But go ahead and DRone on...who knows, maybe one day you'll get as tired of writing it as the rest of us are of reading it (other DR addicts notwithstanding).

well I know all that, but aren't we discussing 14 stops DR  or not ?

and then the text would be ,  I thought 7d AF was good ( or similar word ) until I got my 1DX   
What this means is that you now have  a wider knowledge about 2 cameras AF

You are discussing 14 stops of DR.  You seem incapable of discussing anything else.

Mikael, where's the exact text you told us you'd provide? 

What it means is that you quoted me and even offered to provide the exact text, but you were wrong.  Why can't you just admit that? 

Constantly promoting specific Nikon products in a Canon forum might not be necessary, but I don't get the recent witchhunt for people wishing for more dynamic range ... of course it's useful in high contrast situations, even though even 2-3 stops more isn't enough to pull back all clipped highlights, but it sure would help.

That's not really the issue...I don't think anyone here believes that more DR is a bad thing.  The issue is really this:

Q: Which has better DR, the 5DIII or the D800?
A: The D800 has better DR, Canon's sensor sucks.

Q: Which allows better shadow recovery, the 5DIII or the D800?
A: The D800 has better DR, Canon's sensor sucks.

Q: How can I improve this bird picture?
A: The D800 has better DR, Canon's sensor sucks.

Q: What time is it in Stockholm?
A: The D800 has better DR, Canon's sensor sucks.
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Drizzt321

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #100 on: July 23, 2013, 02:22:54 PM »
WHY do YOU think Magic Lantern are trying to squeeze out a larger dynamic range

Because they're hackers (see original definition), it's there, and because they can. Side benefits are it's a crazy idea, but it can work and likely provide some practical benefits to some photographers. But mostly because it's there.

intligent answer, shall we take some advatages with a large DR?
and why do you think all sensor companies seek such a large DR as possible? until  the flare from the  lenses puts a  end

I'm trying to read your response and make some sense of it, but I'm failing to extract real, meaningful content. I'm particularly confused about bringing of flare from lenses. What does it put an end to? You're leaving me hanging here. It's like Harry Potter And the Deathly Hallows Part 1. Why do I have to wait so long for Part 2?!?
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CarlTN

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #101 on: July 23, 2013, 02:32:52 PM »
How come nobody else is hacking cameras?  Why is it always magic lantern?

Why duplicate what someone else has already done? Join in and work on something that interests you or make an existing feature work better.

Now, occasionally it can make sense to have multiple projects that put out stuff that fundamentally does the same thing, but has a different interface or way of operating that enough other people find useful. But when it comes to cameras, something that's quite difficult to work on and are relatively expensive (mostly) to get even 1 to develop for, it makes a lot of sense to only have 1 main project and maybe if you really need something special just for you, a branch that you keep up to date with the mainline.

Or could it be that no one else wants to open themselves up to liability?

Marsu42

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #102 on: July 23, 2013, 02:40:53 PM »
How come nobody else is hacking cameras?  Why is it always magic lantern?
Why duplicate what someone else has already done? Join in and work on something that interests you or make an existing feature work better.
Or could it be that no one else wants to open themselves up to liability?

Canon has (inofficially) conveyed that they have no problem with ml as long as they leave the 1d series alone.

Btw there are other projects adding custom fw to the cameras like 400plus, but for the newer models they joined up for ml. The reason is that the main work is not the actual coding, but the reverse engineering of Canon's digic and DryOS software, both undocumented (thanks, Canon).

It doesn't make sense duplicating all this, and the ml software framework is very mature and easy to use to add something to it - I often do if I want my camera to do some convenient things like auto-switching to fast drive on bracketing or try to stick to max. x-sync w/o risk of severe overexposure like the Canon fw does.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 02:44:02 PM by Marsu42 »

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #102 on: July 23, 2013, 02:40:53 PM »

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #103 on: July 23, 2013, 02:45:00 PM »
I swear every thread turns into the same thing!

What exactly is ankorwatt trying to say? That we should all immediately go out and buy a D800? While we're at it should we all have the same hairstyles and wear the same clothes?

Haven't you heard of choice? We choose to shoot Canon because we like it.

Now, do you actually take any pictures with the D800 or what? Can you show us an example of when you needed the extra 2 or 3 stops? No really, I want to see. I have no clue what it looks like. I thought shadows were meant to be black, doesn't it look fake if they're not?


yes and I shoot also Canon because I like it, but as you  all can  se there are answers like above, when the benefits of 3 more stops of DR  are useful  ?????
It is always useful
WHY do YOU think Magic Lantern are trying to squeeze out a larger dynamic range
Mikael, are you a photographer?

If yes, more pictures and less talk. And by pictures I mean other things than DRab stuff. I mean artistically or technically great stuff.

If no, its ok. I mean just talk from you is ok. I'll understand.

well ask the companies and institutes Im working for.

how about you?
Very welcome to ask the company I work for and persons I work with about my photographs
 ;)

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2013, 08:56:53 PM »
Btw there are other projects adding custom fw to the cameras like 400plus, but for the newer models they joined up for ml. The reason is that the main work is not the actual coding, but the reverse engineering of Canon's digic and DryOS software, both undocumented (thanks, Canon).

Picking nits: No, the DryOS is most likely very well documented. But that documentation is proprietary and confidential inside Canon. ;)

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Re: Magic Lantern Improves 5D Mark III Dynamic Range to 14 Stops
« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2013, 08:56:53 PM »