August 27, 2014, 09:23:29 PM

Author Topic: 5D Mark II composition movement  (Read 4480 times)

rs

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2013, 09:19:30 AM »
As others have said, the 5D II has only a 98% viewfinder. The main reason for not having a 100% viewfinder isn't the cost of making it bigger, but the cost of aligning it accurately. Missing out 2% allows for some minor misalignment without the viewfinder seeing part of the frame beyond what the sensor would capture.

Are you able to see part of the frame in the viewfinder which is not captured by the sensor? If so, it suggests the alignment is out beyond the manufacturing tolerances, whereas if everything you see in the viewfinder is in the final image, just with an uneven amount of extra on the sides/above/below, then it is within spec, and something you'll probably have to learn to put up with.

Liveview uses the sensor exactly as taking the photo does - so no mirror/pentaprism/focus screen involved, and no chance of any alignment issues.

As you say the misalignment in the viewfinder is not varying from shot to shot, its unlikely to be anything loose, instead it will be something that's shifted. The user replaceable focusing screen might be out of place. What about re-seating that? If that doesn't work, has your second hand 5D mk II got any signs of drop damage, especially around the pentaprism? If so, you could try getting a quote out of Canon.
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JPlendPhoto

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2013, 07:13:59 AM »
Update: I will be taking it back to the shop I brought it from for them to look at it as it is still within the 3 month store warranty.
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Krob78

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2013, 11:11:37 AM »
Update: I will be taking it back to the shop I brought it from for them to look at it as it is still within the 3 month store warranty.
Sounds like the best choice.  I thought it was the IS too, until you said it happens with all your IS lenses... 

Just out of curiosity, Do you have any non IS lenses and if so, does it happen with them?
Ken

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JPlendPhoto

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2013, 11:59:19 AM »
Update: I will be taking it back to the shop I brought it from for them to look at it as it is still within the 3 month store warranty.
Sounds like the best choice.  I thought it was the IS too, until you said it happens with all your IS lenses... 

Just out of curiosity, Do you have any non IS lenses and if so, does it happen with them?

Yes it happens with my 50mm 1.8 which is not IS
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Krob78

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2013, 12:08:19 PM »
Update: I will be taking it back to the shop I brought it from for them to look at it as it is still within the 3 month store warranty.
Sounds like the best choice.  I thought it was the IS too, until you said it happens with all your IS lenses... 

Just out of curiosity, Do you have any non IS lenses and if so, does it happen with them?

Yes it happens with my 50mm 1.8 which is not IS
Man, that's crazy!  I hope they just hand you a new body!   ;D Good luck!!   Please let us know how it works out and if they repair it, what the issue was...
Ken

5D Mark III, 100-400mm L, EF 70-200mm f/2.8 II, EF 24-105mm L, EF 17-40mm L, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM,  Canon 580EX II, Canon 430EX II, Promaster TC 1.7x

CharlieB

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2013, 01:02:13 PM »
As others have said, the 5D II has only a 98% viewfinder. The main reason for not having a 100% viewfinder isn't the cost of making it bigger, but the cost of aligning it accurately. Missing out 2% allows for some minor misalignment without the viewfinder seeing part of the frame beyond what the sensor would capture.


+1

There is always a bit of variation when framing is critical.  Only the very top end cameras are going to give close to 100 percent coverage.   In a past life, I was able to critically align my Nikon F and also F2.  Not fun trying to get top, bottom, left and right all to focus on a screen correctly, and to have it also frame correctly.... but I digress.  Its a pain.

I bought an EOS-400 (XTi) that had a tilted sensor.  The tilt was a good 1-1/2 to 2 degrees clockwise.  Canon was able to correct most of it.... after two trips back. 

You'd expect some variation and imperfection in what was the bottom of the line camera when I bought it.  The 5Dii on the other hand... should be better. 

On the Nikon F, or any film camera, part of the complexity of alignment is the shape of the film as it lies against the rails.  It is not flat, and cannot be flat.  Film takes on a W shape when flattened on rails with a pressure plate, lifted in the center and edges, but contacting the plate  about 1/3 the way up and down from center.  On digital cameras... oh gosh... you have viewfinder accuracy, mirror accuracy, and sensor accuracy to contend with.... much different beast.

Tabor Warren Photography

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2013, 12:06:36 AM »
As others have said, the 5D II has only a 98% viewfinder. The main reason for not having a 100% viewfinder isn't the cost of making it bigger, but the cost of aligning it accurately. Missing out 2% allows for some minor misalignment without the viewfinder seeing part of the frame beyond what the sensor would capture.

I didn't know this, but it makes complete sense!

Man I love this forum,
-Tabor

P.S. I know that was no use to anyone, but hopefully fellow camera geeks will appreciate my enthusiasm!
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noisejammer

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2013, 12:37:23 AM »
I came across a 1D Mk IV which had a similar problem. I eventually tracked it down to damage in the dioptre compensation mechanism. I suspect the camera was dropped which broke the supports leaving a lens group free to wander around. As the camera was tilted, the optic would change its attitude wrt the prism and you'd be looking at a different part of the screen.

Anyway, the repair was quite easy - replacing the assembly took less than half an hour.

JPlendPhoto

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2013, 04:18:49 AM »
Update: I will be taking it back to the shop I brought it from for them to look at it as it is still within the 3 month store warranty.
Sounds like the best choice.  I thought it was the IS too, until you said it happens with all your IS lenses... 

Just out of curiosity, Do you have any non IS lenses and if so, does it happen with them?

Yes it happens with my 50mm 1.8 which is not IS
Man, that's crazy!  I hope they just hand you a new body!   ;D Good luck!!   Please let us know how it works out and if they repair it, what the issue was...

I go on holiday for two weeks on Friday so I won’t be able to get it fixed until I come back (the camera shop knows I’ll be coming). So I have to put up with this problem for a bit longer, but yes I’ll let everyone know what happens :)
Canon EOS 5D MKII + 450D | EF 17-40 f/4L | 70-200 f/4L | 50mm 1.8 | Canon Speedlite 430EX II

JPlendPhoto

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2013, 04:24:53 AM »
As others have said, the 5D II has only a 98% viewfinder. The main reason for not having a 100% viewfinder isn't the cost of making it bigger, but the cost of aligning it accurately. Missing out 2% allows for some minor misalignment without the viewfinder seeing part of the frame beyond what the sensor would capture.


+1

There is always a bit of variation when framing is critical.  Only the very top end cameras are going to give close to 100 percent coverage.   In a past life, I was able to critically align my Nikon F and also F2.  Not fun trying to get top, bottom, left and right all to focus on a screen correctly, and to have it also frame correctly.... but I digress.  Its a pain.

I bought an EOS-400 (XTi) that had a tilted sensor.  The tilt was a good 1-1/2 to 2 degrees clockwise.  Canon was able to correct most of it.... after two trips back. 

You'd expect some variation and imperfection in what was the bottom of the line camera when I bought it.  The 5Dii on the other hand... should be better. 

On the Nikon F, or any film camera, part of the complexity of alignment is the shape of the film as it lies against the rails.  It is not flat, and cannot be flat.  Film takes on a W shape when flattened on rails with a pressure plate, lifted in the center and edges, but contacting the plate  about 1/3 the way up and down from center.  On digital cameras... oh gosh... you have viewfinder accuracy, mirror accuracy, and sensor accuracy to contend with.... much different beast.

I see, that is interesting and does make sense. This problem has never happened with my 5 year old 450D and now with my 5D MKII it’s not a minor misalignment it’s a big one! I wish I could show you how much it is shifting when looking through the viewfinder, but sadly I can’t.
Canon EOS 5D MKII + 450D | EF 17-40 f/4L | 70-200 f/4L | 50mm 1.8 | Canon Speedlite 430EX II

brad-man

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2013, 09:44:23 AM »
Sounds like the issue would certainly be considered a defect, and the shop you purchased it from should repair/replace/refund after your trip. In the meantime, don't forget to leave yourself some cropping room ;)

rs

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Re: 5D Mark II composition movement
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2013, 10:16:52 AM »
I wish I could show you how much it is shifting when looking through the viewfinder
If you tripod mount the camera, remove the eyecup and hold something like an iphone up flat against it, you can take an in-focus image of the entire viewfinder. That and a shot taken with the 5D2 from that same tripod position will do it.

However, that gets you nowhere other than satisfaction of proof. Taking it back to the shop as you've already arranged is the best course of action.
5D II | 24-70 II | 70-200 II | 100L | 40 | Sigma 50/1.4 | 40D | 10-22 | 17-55 | 580 EX II | 1.4x TC II